[MiketheMechanic]

I'm looking for an Analogue UHF Tuner with YPbPr Component Out.
Does such a standalone device exist?

I do not necessarily need PVR capability, but if a PVR device can do this, it would be ok.

I thought that J.S. Technology might do a product such as this, but they do not.

Does anyone have any suggestions?

Regards,
Mike

[Cliff]

It would help if you explained what your aim is. What are you trying to do?

Remember a UHF signal is composite. So breaking it down into component might not achieve anything.

[MiketheMechanic]

Thanks Cliff.

Yes, it will be a UHF Analogue TV RF signal (CH21-68) on the input to the tuner of this "device" - if it exists.

The output of the Tuner (to go to the TV or AV receiver etc) would need to be YPbPr Component.

Does this functionality exist anywhere in a standalone device or as part of a DVDR/PVR?

thanks,

Mike

[mods - please feel free to move this post if this is not the most appropriate forum]

[bxd]

Hi,

I'm sure there are a couple of PVRs that have component outputs (off the scart outputs),although they may all have digital tuners, so you might ask in the PVR/VCR forum.

Brian

[Cliff]

I don't think there is such a tuner. Because most PVRs or TVs have a composite input as well as component. There would be no advantage in converting to component in the tuner. Why not use the composite?

Digital broadcasts are different. Component is an advantage and that is why tuners have scart RGB sockets- but that is not what you were asking!

[MiketheMechanic]

Hi Cliff. I have a commercial 6-series 42in Panny panel, and the external Panny UHF tuner box I have doesn't have component out. Worse still, using this tuner disables all the VGA and component inputs on the TV - (Panasonic wisdom - dont' ask!)

I want to move everything - i.e. all my sources to component, or at least scart RGB. This is because YPbPr inputs still look stunning on a TV that's 5 years old. The only stumbling block is that I want to keep my Analogue UHF tuner capability.

Scart RGB might be ok ,as I have a JS Scart RGB to VGA that does a good job.

Does this throw up any new possibilities?

Mike

[Cliff]

You could try posting on the Plasma TV forum. I remember there was a lot of expertise with the early Panasonics. I am sure there is someone who has cracked this particular nut.

PVRs can usually be configured for RGB so you could use the UHF/DVB tuner inside.

Most of the well known brands that are sold in Europe will have RGB scart outputs. But lesser known imported brands will have YPbPr that are designed for a world wide market.

[Gordon @ Convergent AV]

Why dont you get a sh scaler that will take in the composite video from an analogue tv tuner and all your other sources and then send the better, processed signal to your tv from teh scaler outputs?

You are not going to find an anlogue tv tuner with component or rgb outputs. The best stand alone analogue tuner made was by Arcam. Delta150 I think was it's title. The next best solution is a good VCR used as a stand alone tuner...

[MiketheMechanic]

Hi Gordon.

The Arcam 150 unit looks interesting allright. I bet it was an excellent unit in its time (and still is).
It looks like it only has BNC and SCART composite video output though. Is there any chance there is a RGB option on the SCART - or is it just CVBS?

The Arcam's composite video output would probably look as good as the Panasonic to Terminal board tuner solution I currently use.

However, it would have the added benefit of allowing the VGA and component inputs be used on the panel.

I'm a little confused about your VCR comment though?
My experience of VCRs is that they take the UHF RFIN and loop it through the VCR tuner for recording, then send out and RFOut signal to the TV. I thought that the SCART output of such VCRs was only ever active during playback of tapes, and not "always on" for displaying what was live on the VCR's tuner.

Can you clarify? Granted, I never owned a really high-end VCR, so maybe this is possible.

Thanks in advance,
MtM

[Barcoing Mad]

An S-VHS VCR will even give you an s-video output when fed a UHF input!

[bxd]

Hi,

I have a Panasonic HD-8 series panel with no onboard tuner.

In the past I've used it with a Panasonic DMR-E85H HDD-dvd recorder. This has an analogue tuner and a component video output. However, I've tended to use it via the s-video output (switched via the av-amp) and onto the monitor. I've also used it to accept a rgb output from a Pioneer Freeview box, so I haven't done too much watching on the analogue channels for a while.

As an alternate input to the tv, I've also used a Lumagen VisionPro video processor (an older model). This has a good few inputs ( 8 in total, 9 if you get one with the SDI input fitted) with two (?) of these as component inputs. This would work as a video switcher and would work to send your panel a progressive 480(p) signal to the vga input. I think you can also set it up to output progressive component video so you could still use your component input.

You can pick up basic video processors (Lumagen Vision, VisionPro, DVI, and DVDO Iscan Ultra (and other models)) pretty cheaply on the classifieds. You should also be able to pick up a dvd recorder with an analogue tuner pretty easily. There was even an Arcam 150 in the classifieds a couple of weeks ago.

I'm sure that the Panasonic tuner for these panels was considered as "pants" so anything that you do will probably be an improvement

Brian

[MiketheMechanic]

Thanks bxd.

Yes, the PQ from the Panasonic tuner box is indeed "pants"!!!
But it does have Teletext!

I've always wanted to try out an Arcam product, and I'm tempted to try this old but excellent tuner, now that its available at bargain basement prices.

I need teletect though, I posted this question over on the Arcam owners forum, but maybe someone here knows: Does the Arcam Delta 150 TV Tuner have Teletext capability?

Thanks,
MtM

[MiketheMechanic]

Wow - information overload from all you knowledgable folks

@Gordon: Pardon the noobie questions. I'm pretty good at interconnects and video standards and so on, but I have to admit that I've never really used a scaler or really know what one does. Is there a secondhand make and model of scaler that you would recommend for my application (i.e. take input from a composite Tuner like the Arcam 150)

I could lookup the specs and figure out what the scaler does in the signal chain.

If it helps, I have a Panasonic TH42PWD6. So I think it likes a 480p input?

Thanks in advance,
Mike

[Gordon @ Convergent AV]

mike: As has been noted here.. virtually any VCR with a scart output will send composite video to your display.

Of note: Analogue tv is COMPOSITE VIDEO. If you do find something that outputs s-video or rgb scart for an analogue tv signal then all you are doing is moving where the conversion to rgb happens from the tuner to the display or the vcr or intermediary box. The trick is to find the device that does this the best. imho your most effective solution performance wise would be a Lumagen HDQ model scaler that has an exceptional 3D comb filter (the bit that extracts the colour from the black and white part of a composite signal). It would take in the composite de-interlace and scale it and then you could output as VGA or component video to your PWD6 at whatever res you find offers best image

Your tv has a scaler in it. Here is a link that explains what a scaler does

[choddo2006]

Originally Posted by MiketheMechanic

Hi Gordon.

I'm a little confused about your VCR comment though?
My experience of VCRs is that they take the UHF RFIN and loop it through the VCR tuner for recording, then send out and RFOut signal to the TV. I thought that the SCART output of such VCRs was only ever active during playback of tapes, and not "always on" for displaying what was live on the VCR's tuner.

Every VCR I've ever seen would output its currently tuned channel over SCART if there was no tape playing.

Might I ask; why the analogue love? Why wouldn't you just use a freeview box? Signal problems?

[MiketheMechanic]

@choddo2006 I have 2 or 3 old VCRs lying around. I will try this experiment again to see if the VCR RF tuner outputs CVBS over the scart output. As I recall correctly, none of mine ever did.

As for Analogue - well the MPEG4 DVB-T Terestrial Service has not been officially rolled out here in Eire yet. Its in ongoing Engineering Test mode, but I do not want to rely on it as my main source if the domestic channels just yet. Analogue switch off is still a few years away.

MtM

[bxd]

Hi,

I fully agree with Gordons comment about composite video. If you're after absolute video quality, then using the composite output from the source (e.g. dvd-recorder or vhs machine) to feed a scaler is the way to go. If you also play dvds on your machine then you'd probably want to use the component video output instead (hence my comment about the 2 component inputs earlier) as that should give you a better picture for dvd sources. Obviously, with ~8 inputs on a Lumagen scaler you can use both and connect a dvd-recorder to the composite and component inputs. Conveniently, the Panasonic recorder* that I mentioned earlier has several outputs to allow you to do this.

However, I tend to disagree with Gordon ( ... sorry Gordon!) about the choice of scaler. I don't know how much you'd want to spend on this, but a Lumagen HDQ is ~£500 for a second hand one and well over £1k for a new one. Given that your panel is only 480p there is a bit of an 'imbalance' in spending that sort of money on the scaler. My choice of the Vision or Vision Pro can be picked up for ~£100-150 (or less) on the classified ads (as can the iScan scalers) and I'd consider it a better 'match' for your particular panel.

While your Panasonic is (already) de-interlacing the composite signal, it's also "downscaling" the 576p image to fit it onto the 480p panel, so you're already compromising your image to some extent. While I'm sure the Lumagen scaler will do a better job than the internal scaler on your display (and the picture on a PW6 is supposed to be pretty good), I couldn't justify spending the sort of money required for a HDQ.

Brian

(* a little note of caution if you do go looking at this particular dvd-recorder. I'm just using it as an example of what's possible. The E-85 machines have had a few problems with their power supplies so you'd want ask about alternatives on the dvd recorder forum before you go down that route.)

[choddo2006]

Originally Posted by MiketheMechanic

@choddo2006 I have 2 or 3 old VCRs lying around. I will try this experiment again to see if the VCR RF tuner outputs CVBS over the scart output. As I recall correctly, none of mine ever did.

You're making me doubt my sanity now.

As for Analogue - well the MPEG4 DVB-T Terestrial Service has not been officially rolled out here in Eire yet. Its in ongoing Engineering Test mode, but I do not want to rely on it as my main source if the domestic channels just yet. Analogue switch off is still a few years away.

MtM

Ah, sorry, I was being insular and assuming you were in the UK

[MiketheMechanic]

Ok,

so I tried this experiment with two old VCRs.

And guess what - the Scart was able to output what was on the VCR Tuner!

I must have not used a properly wired Scart lead last time I tried this (that's my excuse anyway!)

And yes, it does look rubbish on a 42-inch Plasma

I think I will have to make the jump to MPEG4 DVB-T DTT. Hopefully the service is officially rolled out soon. There are some receivers available with YPbPr outputs.

Thanks for all the help.

Mike

[Pop up Dragon]

I dont know if you are looking but Pixel Magic made a couple of scalers with builtin tuners,the PE1000 and the PE1000Pro . A friend of mine uses one of the Pro's with great results , i know he bought of of the non pro's for a second system and i dont think he's ever used that...
When he bought the second one it was only about £250 ..hope this helps