Do I need a scaler?

[Pecker]

I'm new to all this scaling malarky, so please be patient.



Current Set-up:

Denon DVD player (D2900)- component progressive out
Denon AV Amp (AVR3803) - Component in from NTL Box (via RGB to Component Convertor) and Denon DVD player. Component out to...
Themescene H56 Projector

I'm definitely upgrading the Themescene to a H72i.

I might also be upgrading my DVD player and Amp to the Denon DVD-3910 or 3930 with internal upscaling and the Denon AVR-3806 with HDMI switching. I'm also going to Sky HD.

I have a large SD DVD collection, which I'm sure I'll be watching for years to come, and I'm equally sure I'll be watching a lot of SD TV.

So, do I:

A - Upscasle DVDs using my new DVD player and upscale TV using the scaler in the projector

OR

B - Keep my DVD player and upscale all SD DVD and TV through the scaler?

How much for a decent scaler good enough for me to notice the difference between it and the scaling in my projector/DVD player?

In short, if I have about £1,000 going spare, am I better off keeping my current DVD plasyer and buying a scaler which will scale both my DVDs and SD TV, or am I better off changing the DVD player?

Many thanks.

Steve W

[creative-av]

Hi Steve,

As you have said that you want both your DVD and TV scaled then I would go the dedicated VP route. You not only get the scaling side but also the additional functionality - advanced colour correction, greyscale, gamma, video switching etc etc.

At the moment the Iscan VP30+ABT card is probably the best SD VP on the market. Its only downside it can't do 1080i processing. It retails for approx £1300 with the ABT card.

The Lumagen range is not far behind the Iscan VP30 for SD processing but brings a whole lot more to the table with its HD processing. Prices start from £825 SRP(VisionDVI) to £1599 SRP(HDQ). Not that the VisionDVI model is only 8 bit and doesn't have some of the HD processing that the HDP and HDQ models have.

There are numerous threads around at the moment discussing the Iscan VP30 and Lumagens so would be worth having a little read.

Cheers,

Steve

[Liam @ Prog AV]

Personally I doubt you would see any improvement in going for the newer DVD player and AV amp (I regard that DVD as a step backwards from the excellent 2900). Especially once you're using a dedicated VP for video processing duties. I'd use the budget to skip the lower rungs of the processors ladder and get straight to Lumagen HDP/HDQ versus iScan VP30 with the fancypants card. iScan will win on video mode SD, Sky TV, sport. The Lumagen will win on SD DVDs, Sky Movies and by a country mile on HDTV. I personally prefer the Lumagen scaling too, delivering the sharper picture over the iscan.

[Pecker]

The Themescene appears to be native 720, though it will convert both SD and 1080 pictures. Am I best having the VP set to output 720p, irrespective of input?

Also, I'm thinking of having one Sky HD box going to 2 rooms (cinema projector room and 42" plasmsa in the living room). Can I run (for example) 2 HDMI cables from the back of the VP to two different rooms?

Cheers - you're all being very helpful.

Steve W

[Liam @ Prog AV]

The HD72i is 1280 x 768. You set the projector to run 1280 x 720 mode (16:9) and then set the VP to 720p output. Using the Native aspect ratio on the HD72i you will have 1:1 straight away.

VP will need a 1:2 amplifier on it, but yes you can then run HDMI to both displays. The Lumagen will be better in this regard as it is easier to run a set of profiles for two different displays on it. You then just press MEMA or MEMB on the remote depending on whether you are watching plasma or projector. Or you can just leave the setup running 720p all the time, with the projector 1:1 and the plasma not.

Remember that you will have to watch on the plasma whatever is being watched on the projector (and vice versa). To make this easier you really want to run a bit of extra cabling from the Sky HD box in case someone wants to watch Sky HD on the plasma while you are watching a DVD on the projector. Your supplier will be able to do a complete schematic for you. Would also be worth getting the PJ and VP from the same place as most suppliers will then do the pixel matching of display and processor for you before sending it out.

[creative-av]

Steve,

I would try both and see what you prefer. You can always set different input/output memories on the Lumagen so you can choose which one suits you best.

You can get various splitters and distribution amps that will take the feed out of the vp and then split it into x amount of outputs. Gefen are very good.

Steve

[Stephen Wilde]

You'll only fully appreciate the benefit of an external scaler if someone experienced directs your attention to the differences between the before and after pictures.
For me it was Gordon at ConvergentAV.
For the normal domestic user the differences are not always obvious but once you have seen them you won't want to go back.

[creative-av]

I would recommend to anyone that is spending the money on a good panel and scaler to have an ISF calibration performed. You should definitely be able to see the difference!

Steve

[Gordon @ Convergent AV]

Wise words Stephen: Indeed it is often the case the folk see artefacts and don't actually realise they are not in the orignal captured image but are produced by the display or source. Good dealers/calibrators will attempt to show the issues in display systems and how they can be resolved. Sometimes these issues are minor but sometimes they can be HUGE.....

Gordon

[Joe Fernand]

Hello Pecker

Your not going to get away with spending any of your budget on audio in the Video Processing Forum

Unless you believe you going to gain something in terms of audio processing and loudspeaker drive then having HDMI switching on-board your AV Receiver is an expensive Red Herring; if all you require is HDMI switching you can add a 5x1 Automatic HDMI switch to your current set-up for 150.00 GBP.

An up-scaling DVD player is never going to deliver the quality you can achieve with a programmable Video Processor and as the Video processor has multiple Inputs the video 'upgrade' can be shared across all of your video sources.

Your DVD-2900 can be modified to output an Serial Digital (SDI) signal - partner it with an SDI enabled Video Processor and your laughing all the way around Mr and Mrs HDMI with HDCP!

One thing that niggles with your Projector plans is going with the DC2 HD72i now or wait a little longer for the H79 DC3 replacement model that's due to materialise this summer!!!

Best regards

Joe

[Pecker]

What's the spec & price on that model, any idea?

Steve W

[creative-av]

Heres the link to the Optoma site: http://www.optoma.co.uk/optoma/proje...0Cinema&PC=H79

Prices start from £2,645 inc VAT SRP for one the of packages(pj, screen, cable)

Steve

[Joe Fernand]

Hello Pecker

As per Steve's link the H79 has just gone 'end of line' - I'm not sure if any are sitting around unsold.

Expect to see something that looks like the HD72i but with H79 specs in the next couple of months and still sub £3k.

Best regards

Joe

[Pecker]

Cheers, gang.

I'm only just managing to pursuade the other half that we should spend £1.5k on an upgrade. Maybe when this new model comes out the 72i will drop even further in price (he said hopefully).

Steve W

[creative-av]

It may well come down but the free lamp voucher is for a limited time already. When you factor this into the cost(A bulb is usually £200+) then you are actually getting the pj and all the necessary kit for under £1.3k!

Have a look around and try to get a demo if possible. You need to see with you owns eyes whether you like the pj or not.

Steve