Best Scaler ? Money No Object...

[Flat Eric]

I've currently got a VP30+ABT102. It's the danglies of the dog for my SD sources.

I'll be purchasing a new HD dvd player (either BluRay or HD-DVD depending on which wins out) and I'll also be sorting out Sky HD at some point soon.

Obviously (to me, anyway) I'll be wanting an all singing, all dancing scaler which can work wonders on the HD sources aswell.

I'm sure that DVDO won't sit around and are working on a HD version of their VP30+ABT but what if money were no object. Which scalar would you go for.

Now that I've seen the benefits a scaler can bring to my pretty simplistic home setup I'm definately going to look for the best one I can get my hands on.

[madshi]

The big question is: Do you want to buy today or can you wait a bit? Right now the best VPs in overall image quality are Crystalio II and Vantage-HD. In terms of pure image quality both should be more or less similar (one exception: the Crystalio II is not as good for Anime content). In terms of features and inputs/outputs etc the Crystalio II is much better than the Vantage-HD. The CII is very hard to get, though, since it's backordered quite a lot and supply is short.

If you can wait a bit, the Lumagen Radiance or DVDOs next VP (both probably end of the year) should also be very interesting.

(If money is absolutely no object, you could also think about coupling your VP with an Algolith Mosquito HDMI.)

[Flat Eric]

Originally Posted by madshi

The big question is: Do you want to buy today or can you wait a bit? Right now the best VPs in overall image quality are Crystalio II and Vantage-HD. In terms of pure image quality both should be more or less similar (one exception: the Crystalio II is not as good for Anime content). In terms of features and inputs/outputs etc the Crystalio II is much better than the Vantage-HD. The CII is very hard to get, though, since it's backordered quite a lot and supply is short.

If you can wait a bit, the Lumagen Radiance or DVDOs next VP (both probably end of the year) should also be very interesting.

(If money is absolutely no object, you could also think about coupling your VP with an Algolith Mosquito HDMI.)

I've just spent the last half an hour reading up on the Crysalio II. It does seem pretty good. I'm going to read up on the Vantage.

I suppose it would make sense to wait and see what DVDO come out with on the HD front. I've heard they do pretty decent trade ins.

[Flat Eric]

Hmm. Had a look at the mosquito. Do you think it'll make a big difference ?

Would it sit on the output side of the scaler ?

I thought it'd be more expensive then a couple of thousand dollars.

[madshi]

Originally Posted by Flat Eric

Hmm. Had a look at the mosquito. Do you think it'll make a big difference ?

Haven't seen it myself. I'd suggest that you do a search in the US forums, as there are several people who own a Mosquito. Here in Europe it's not used that much, for whatever reason.

I've been told it works very well for removing compression artifacts, so it should work especially great for Sky SD. People say if you add it, the picture gets calm and clean, but you don't notice the change soooo extremely much. But if you remove the Mosquito, you suddenly notice how bad the image is without it. Not sure how much sense the Mosquito makes for HD, since at least here in Germany, I don't see the usual compression artifacts (like mosquito noise and macroblocking) in HD.

Please note that some VPs have built in noise reduction. Usually the build in noise reduction is not up to the level of the Mosquito, but it can get quite near. E.g. the Vantage-HD has good noise reduction built in. BUT if you activate it, the Vantage-HD drops down a bit on deinterlacing image quality.

Originally Posted by Flat Eric

Would it sit on the output side of the scaler ?

No, the Mosquito only works on not-yet-scaled material. So you'd have to put it in front of scaling.

When using the Crystalio II, you could chain the Mosquito in, because the CII has two independent outputs. So basically you could put all your sources into the CII, then output the unmodified sources to the Mosquito and put the output of the Mosquito back into the CII. Then the CII could deinterlace&scale. At least the PixelMagic guys said that this should work. But of course doing such a chaining you'd lose one of the outputs of the CII.

You can of course simply put the Mosquito before the VP. But then you need to put all sources into the Mosquito. And then most inputs of the VP are useless.

I'm not sure whether I can/should recommend the Mosquito. I just wanted to mention it, cause you said that money is no object. You have to make your own choice, I can't help you with it. Don't complain to me, if you buy the Mosquito and don't like it...

[Liam @ Prog AV]

I'd look more to the C-II than the Vantage as the C-II seems to have more tweakability/adjustment to get that ultimate image. You've got to be allowing for a pro calibration on this kind of kit. I think Vantage mentioned possibly bringing out a higher-end version of the HD, but not sure where they went with that.

If you can wait though, I hear Lumagen might do very silly things with their Radiance at the end of the year. By which time you will have got the most out of your VP30 and will be about wanting some decent HD processing.

[madshi]

Originally Posted by Liam @ Prog AV

If you can wait though, I hear Lumagen might do very silly things with their Radiance at the end of the year.

Come on, spill the beans!!

What I know is that the Radiance will be a combination of HQV Realta deinterlacing and Lumagen scaling. But I wouldn't classify that as "silly" yet. Is there anything more you know of, which might justify the "silly" tag?

Thanks!

[Liam @ Prog AV]

Don't know any more than you mate, Lumagen aren't saying a whole lot. But the Radiance is a range not a model, just like the Vision is. There's the announced $4k XS and $6k XD, that's a whole two grand extra for the higher model. You can bet that's more than just a HQV, some Lumagen scaling, and a few extra inputs and outputs.

[madshi]

Ok, I'll wait and see. Maybe they licensed Algolith's noise reduction technology for the XD...

[Liam @ Prog AV]

Be nice if wrote their own!! I don't think they had even realised they had mosquito filtering abilities in their scaling algorithm when they originally wrote that, can you imagine what the could do if they put their heads to it!!!

[Flat Eric]

Originally Posted by madshi

I'm not sure whether I can/should recommend the Mosquito. I just wanted to mention it, cause you said that money is no object. You have to make your own choice, I can't help you with it. Don't complain to me, if you buy the Mosquito and don't like it...

Don't worry, I wouldn't hold you responsible for recommending it. Chaining the mosquito on the CII looks like a good idea as I wouldn't want to feed everything through the mosquito as it doesn't look like it has the input flexibility of the CII.

I'm busy reading up on the Vantage HD now.

[creative-av]

If you can hang on then it would be worth seeing what the Lumagen Radiance is like.

If not then the CII gets my vote aswell.

Steve

[madshi]

Originally Posted by Liam @ Prog AV

Be nice if wrote their own!! I don't think they had even realised they had mosquito filtering abilities in their scaling algorithm when they originally wrote that, can you imagine what the could do if they put their heads to it!!!

To be honest, I think the Algolith people are top of class in their area. As far as I know, Algolith and Teranex have exchanged licenses for some noise reduction algorithms. So I think Lumagen would be better of by investing their programming capacity in other areas. Why reinventing the wheel?

But yes, it's nice that Lumagen's scaling algo seems to remove some mosquito noise and also some edge enhancement (so I've read somewhere) seemingly without any negative side effects!!

[Liam @ Prog AV]

Yes I agree I'm just joshing about!!

[madshi]

Just for your interest, here's a new thread over at the US forums with some official comments about the Radiance from Lumagen:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=690245

Originally Posted by Jim Peterson

The differences between the two are that the RadianceXD adds two additional HDMI inputs (total of six), a second HDMI output, PiP capability, plus a front panel display. Whether these are worth the $2000 difference ($5999 verses $3999) is, of course, a personal choice.