Opnions on whether a processor would really help?

[BigGazza]

Hi,


I've had my Fujitsu P42HHA10 (1024 x 1024 ALiS screen) for more than 3 years now, and when I first got it the picture via Sky was mostly atrocious. I therefore decided to go down the HTPC route, and ended up with a Holo3Dgraph 1 card controlling the inputs and scaling, coupled with FFdshow controlling noise reduction, and feeding a ATi 9700 graphics card which outputs to the Fuji via DVI, all of which resulted in a fairly decent picture. I also have a Panasonic RP82 which outputs to the H3D via SDI.

My problem is that I have just had Sky HD installed, and I am finding myself having to remember to flick between the DVI input (when watching standard def, SKY) and component (when watching HD). So, having looked at the possibility of going down the stand alone processor route for some time, I’m asking for advice from the experts out there as to whether I would really gain anything by switching?

I’ve done a certain amount of reading up on the various options, and it seems to me that either the Lumagen HDP or the Crystalio II are the best options, but as I have zero experience of either, and by no means consider myself an expert, can anyone give me an opinion as to whether spending that kind of money is really going to get me a big improvement in image quality?

Thanks in advance

[creative-av]

Hi BigGazza,

There are gains to adding a dedicated video processor into a system but I wonder whether it would be overkill on your system as you are happy with the HTPC.

Have you tried experimenting with a graphics card that outputs component to the screen so that you can run everything through your HTPC? A screen that has been correctly setup and calibrated can look just as good, sometimes better, when using component instead of a digital connection.

If you do decided to go the vp route then you would be able to do what the majority of other members have done which is feed the vp HDMI for the HD channels and the Scart RGB->4 RCA for the SD channels. This seems to get the best results.

Whether you go for a LumagenHDP(SRP of £1299) or a Crystalio II(SRP of £2999-VPS3300 or £3699-VPS3800 Pro) is down to your budget.

Steve

[tryingtimes]

I don't think it'll be long before you need to either seriously upgrade your HTPC or move to a dedicated scaler, due to HDCP, HD scaling and HD-DVD/BRD support. A PC could cost <£1000. HD scalers will probably start at the £2000 mark.

It's very possible that a new PC bought this Autumn could cater for all your needs, but you would be at the bleeding edge.

Crystalio II will give you these improvements and features now and is the most flexible of the current options but it is also early days and other products will be available this year.

The VPS3800 is the obvious HTPC replacement as it can access your media files, but that isn't tested at all yet - all we can do is make assumptions from the HD MediaBox product.

It's certainly a tricky time to buy and I for one have put off my purchase until the picture becomes clearer.

One thing that's always in my mind though - my Crystalio I gave a better picture than my HTPC and Crystalio II is meant to be better (even for SD).

[creative-av]

Originally Posted by tryingtimes

I don't think it'll be long before you need to either seriously upgrade your HTPC or move to a dedicated scaler, due to HDCP, HD scaling and HD-DVD/BRD support. A PC could cost <£1000. HD scalers will probably start at the £2000 mark.

Lumagen HDP offers HD scaling.

Steve

[BigGazza]

Thanke very much for the reply guys.

Part of the reason I have been considering changing from HTPC to VP is that I've always found it a little worrying channeling everything through a PC for my viewing, as they often tend to be unreliable, and I have had several instances over the last couple of years when the whole thing has gone tits up.

So, having kind of talked myself into getting a VP (with the help of everyone on here), what I'm still struggling with is whether it's really worth spending the extra money for a Crystalio II, or whether to just plump for a Lumagen. Do any retailers offer any kind of trial, so I could test which is the best for my system?

[tryingtimes]

Lumagen HDP offers HD scaling.

True - although I don't see it as true allround upgrade over a good HTPC.

I know that the firmware has moved on recently, but my provious tests showed SD performance to be no better than well-implememented Theatertek/DScaler.

I would think that anyone having a good working HTPC would be better to wait until the newer products appear rather than spending £1299 now and then wanting to upgrade again soonish when we see improvements on SD, HD, calibration facilities, automation, etc both from Lumagen and from other companies.

But of course that's just my opinion - everyone has to weigh up the pros and cons for themselves.

[tryingtimes]

Hi BigGazza - I posted before seeing yours.
Trial-wise - you may be able to get a Lumagen demo unit, but the CII is still too scarce - maybe in another month there might be enough about for retailers to keep demo units.
I don't know whether they're doing it again, but with Crystalio I, www.pluggedin.tv were doing home trials.

[creative-av]

BigGazza - Drop Gordon@Convergent-av an email or pm wrt Lumagen Demo. As tryingtimes has said a Crystalio 2 demo would be very hard at the moment as they are being dripped-fed into the country!

It is always a difficult decision on when to buy and whether to wait for the next big product around the corner. As always demo if you can and then go with what is best for your setup.

Steve

[Joe Fernand]

Hello BigGazza

One potential fly in the ointment being that SKY HD into the likes of a Lumagen Vision still requires that you potentially 'swap' Inputs if you want the optimal performance for SD and HD.

SCART RGB 576i being best for SD and HDMI RGB 1080i for HD.

Getting a processor working with some of the ALiS panels is quite a challenge and definitely needs lots of time and or someone who's set-up a few to get it right.

No matter which way you go it looks like your going to have to switch Inputs if you want the best viewing experience with SKY HD.

Best regards

Joe

PS I wonder is it time to consider a replacement Display!!!

[BigGazza]

Actually Joe I have been considering changing the display itself, as the Fujitsu is obviously a little long in the tooth compared to modern plasma's. However, I'm kind of holding out for the 1st batch of 1080p screens to arrive (which I believe they haven't quite yet?). So, if I do decide to get a processor I'll want one that's going to work well with a 1080p plasma, ready for when I do actually buy one.

[creative-av]

If thats the case BigGazza then I would definitely go down the vp route and would probably look at the Crystalio 2.

The new Pioneer 1080p panels should be here very soon but will come with a high price tag(SRP £6k). If you want one this year then get an order in quick.

Steve

[GrahamWoodhouse]

Hi BigGazza,

I have the same screen as you ... but not Sky HD (yet !).

Can you tell me please, does the panel display Sky HD by trimming the top and bottom of the image by a few percent.

In other words, does it display the middle 1024 lines of the Sky 1080 line image ?




Regards

Graham

[BigGazza]

HI Graham,

I'm not entirely sure how to tell if the Fujitsu is cropping the image in that way. If you tell me what to look for I'll have a look and get back to you.

[GrahamWoodhouse]

Hi BigGazza,

<<I'm not entirely sure how to tell if the Fujitsu is cropping the image in that way>>

Good point. Me neither.

What I would *really* like to find out is whether the panel is displaying 1080i "natively", doing so with a sort of 1:1 mapping, rather than scaling 1080 to 1024. So my investigation would go something like :

Does the Fujitsu work with the Sky HD box set to 1080i ?

If it doesn't work at 1080i ...

... then it is clearly scaling 720p up to 1024i. This would be "less than ideal" (given that the Sky box is already scaling 1080i down to 720p !) and would not encourage me to rush out and buy HD until I get a better screen.


And if it *does* work at 1080i ...

Then perhaps comparing the screen image of a recorded programme when the box is set at 720 versus 1080 might give the game away. I would probably look for a static shot (perhaps the establishing shot at the beginning of a scene - easy to find again) and note just how far up and down the picture goes. Maybe you have a recording of a show with fairly detailed titles which would serve, or failing that, perhaps careful scrutiny of just how close to the top of the screen the logo occurs. Sky Sports HD should be another good place to see this effect - they usually have fixed-place graphics which would be a dead give away.


It seems to me that, in numbers terms at least, a 1024i ALiS panel would, in principle, deliver the best possible Sky HD vertical resolution. If one accepts the "overscan" issue of losing about 5% of the picture, then you should be seeing every single one of the 1024 "middle" lines of the picture ... each on it's own line of screen pixels ... reproduced in an interlaced fashion (i.e. the format in which it is broadcast).

How could anything be better than that ? [Yes, I know that many screens have more *horizontal* resolution, but that is another issue.]




Regards

Graham

[BigGazza]

Hi Graham

The Fujitsu certainly displays both 720p and 1080i from Sky without any problems, but as to how it's actually handling them I'm not sure. I'll try and use your suggestions to take a look at it and let you know.