Scaler/Processor worth it in my situation?

[andrewfee]

I've been reading up on video scalers/processors, but am having a hard time deciding on one, or whether one would be right in my situation at all.

I've been wanting to get a new TV for some time now - almost a year in-fact, and in that time I've had five different LCDs, the latest being one of the new Sony 32V2000s, and they've all gone back for one reason or another. (either picture quality or how it handles certain inputs)

During that time, I've also bought a 17" 15:9 (1280x768) Sony LCD for £300 as a temporary display (last TV died, which is why I started looking at LCDs) and out of all the displays I've had, I'm happiest with the picture quality on it - the glossy coating (XBlack) gives a nice depth to the image compared to matte LCDs, and response times are good. (no smearing) The only real complaint I've got about it is size, but there doesn't seem to be anything else out there that's suitable, or worth the money.

I was looking into Panasonic plasmas this week, considering a 37PX600, but as 50% or more of my use is gaming, image retention / burn-in is a big concern, and they still haven't fixed the "rainbows/ghosting" so I've had to rule them out. Front/Rear-Projection isn't an option, and as there aren't any decent HD CRTs, it looks like I'm going to be stuck with this LCD for another 6 months at least. (perhaps longer if the next generation of LCDs aren't much better than what we have now)

So as it looks like I'm going to be stuck with this LCD for some time now, I'm looking to get as good an image out of it as I can.

I'm very happy with the image I get from the VGA and DVI inputs - they both support 1:1 mapping at 50Hz and 60Hz, (VGA still runs in 60Hz, but at least accepts & displays a 50Hz signal) have no overscan regardless of the signal sent, have four gamma presets (so I can get it to ~2.2) and offer white-point temperature controls. (so they're calibrated to a D65 white-point with my Spyder2PRO)

Component and S-Video are another matter, however. De-interlacing is fairly poor, (although not the worst I've seen) there's quite a lot of overscan, temperature is fixed, giving things a magenta cast, and gamma is also fixed meaning I have to either lose shadow detail or raise the black level. There's a lot of forced edge-enhancement, which I hate, and unless the source is 720p, 1080i, or 4:3, I'm stuck in a 15:9 ratio too.

As there's no RGB input, my Topfield TF5800 PVR has to be connected up with S-Video. It actually offers a YUV output, but on this television for some reason, there's a strong red push when doing so. I've been considering buying a JS-Tech RGB > Component converter, but I'd still be stuck with all the other issues if I did that.

Here's a couple of shots - the first is S-Video from my PVR, and the second is a quick recording of it played back from my laptop via DVI. (using VLC with the default options)



As you can see, there's a huge difference there, and I'm sure a scaler would do an even better job with it, so even at 17" the difference should be very noticeable. (I tend to sit fairly close-up) Things can't be set up like this permanently though, or I'd just stick with that - I need to move my laptop around, and transferring recordings off the PVR is very slow as it uses USB2. (about 15-20 minutes for an hour-long recording)

Thing is, other than my PVR, I'm not sure if anything else would benefit from getting a scaler. I've got an Oppo DV971H for playing DVDs via DVI, (1:1 mapped) my Xbox 360 uses the VGA lead (1:1 mapped) and I have a Gamecube hooked up over VGA as well. (640x480) Aside from the PVR, these are the main things I use, and I'm perfectly happy with how they all look. (although the gamecube is perhaps a little soft)

I've also got an Xbox and PS2 hooked up over component, and while the edge-enhancement is annoying, it's something I can live with, as they don't get used that much now.



So I'm not really sure if a scaler is worth it or not. I'd definitely see the benefits, but everything seems really expensive, especially when compared with the price of my current screen. My other concern is that I'm wanting something that will last. As it looks like I'll be at least another 6 months before purchasing another display now, whatever I get next is likely to be 1080p native, and scalers that will cope with that fully (like the Crystalio II) seem to be a hell of a lot of money, and would probably set back the purchase of a display another 6 months. (but I suppose I'd end up with a better display)

What sort of scaler/processor would you recommend in my situation? (if any?) The VP30 seems like it would be quite good, as it can output 1080p, and has game modes, but it's about £1600 with the precision deinterlacing card. The reason I'm stuck with this display isn't a lack of money (I've had a 37PF9830 and had been considering the Sony 46X2000, for example) but I don't want to be wasting it buying something far in excess of my needs etc.

My other concern is that there may not be much need for scalers once BluRay / HD-DVD is commonplace, although I won't be getting broadcast HDTV until it's FTA. (I'll be sticking with Freeview until then - there's nothing on Sky etc that justifies the cost in my opinion)

Any suggestions / advice would be welcome, thanks.

[voodooflux]

Hi Andrew

No real advice to offer I'm afraid, but I'm in a similar situation. I'm also considering the Sony 46X2000 LCD, which is great for HD material from what I've seen, but still far from perfect for SD material.

I'm considering something like a Lumagen HDQ to output everything (Sky HD, Xbox 360, DVD) to the panel at 1:1 1080p, and also do it's magic on the SD material to make it look better (noise reduction, error correction, etc). Most of my "TV" viewing is going to be SD for a good while yet, so I'm looking to really improve the performance in this area.

cheers
v.f.

[creative-av]

Andrew/VF,

The VP30 with the addon ABT card is probably the best SD scaler around at the moment(barring the Crystalio 2 but that is twice the price!). However, it doesn't do HD.

The Lumagen does HD and is pretty near the VP30 for SD processing.

Adding a scaler will give you the added beenfits of advance picture correction, superior de-interlacing, noise reduction and host of other good things!

You can have home demo's of the Lumagens to see if the purchase would suit you or not.

Steve

[andrewfee]

Thanks for the advice. I've been looking into it more, and I'm really wanting something that will last. As the VP30 only does SD, that's it out of the picture really. I hear that while the Lumagens are great at scaling, they're not very good as SD video content, and pretty good with SD film content.

I really like the range of adjsustments that Lumagen offer with their scalers though, so I'm probably just going to wait for the RadianceXS. (I'm not sure I see much point in the XD for me - it all depends on price difference and whichever is available first really - I doubt I will ever have a projector & tv setup, but it's always good to be future-proof having dual outputs)

It really is a lot of money though, my concern is that it's going to be pointless for my current display, and that it may not work well with whatever I end up with. (It's very hard to find large LCDs that do 1:1 mapping digitally these days, thanks to HDMI)

I've finally figured out how to get into the service menu for this LCD now, and it doesn't seem quite as good as I had expected though, so that's also making me doubt whether or not it's worth it. (then again, the 11-point greyscale calibration might be able to correct for this)


I can get the black level down to about 0.8cd/m2, but that brings gamma up to about 2.4, 2.5, and throws away a fair bit of shadow detail. I could also use a shallower gamma setting (2.0) but things then just don't look quite as good. As it's a glossy panel, you can't really see the difference - black still looks black. From that gamma curve though, I'm not sure if I should just be using the 2.0 setting or not.

[Matt Horne]

I would say now the SD processing for tv has come on leaps and bounds in the latest lumagen update which was released earlier in the week.. more than pleased with the way it handles the footy on the sky box