Arcam DV27

[lmccauley]

Did anyone see the Arcam DV27 at the Bristol show?

Cheers,
Liam

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"Do you hear that, Mr. Anderson? That is the sound of inevitability."

[lmccauley]

Since no-one has replied either here or on the DVD forum, I presume that Arcam didn't have a working DV27 available in time...?

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"Do you hear that, Mr. Anderson? That is the sound of inevitability."

[pcavelle]

They didn't; only the 88

[John Dawson]

Actually Arcam did show and demonstrate the DV27 at the Bristol show. It was in the main room hooked up to the Sony WS projector on its component inputs. We used the DV27 in PS mode for the last demo of each session, so well over 1,000 people will have seen and heard it operating. However the room was always completely packed, so unless you got a seat early on for each demo session, you would have missed this :-(

The DV27 is on target for release at the end of April.

John Dawson (Arcam)

John,

Will the release at end April be Pal Progressive ,or is this still to be resolved ?

Thanks

[John Dawson]

The CSS rules are quite clear and we regret that at this time the DV27 will have to be delivered to output only 480p progressive.
There is work going on behind the scenes to "legalise" 576p; however it will take some time :-(

HTH,

John Dawson (Arcam)

[lmccauley]

John,

Will the 576p mode be enableable by a software update on the DV27 (i.e. can you safely buy a DV27 in April knowing that it can be easily upgraded for PAL PS when the necessary legal hoops have been jumped through)?

Cheers,
Liam

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"Do you hear that, Mr. Anderson? That is the sound of inevitability."

[John Dawson]

I can't guarantee that only a software upgrade will permit this as the precise mode of copy protection for 576p is not yet defined.

However for UK customers such as yourself I expect we'll find an economical way to get you sorted, legalities permitting of course.

Sincerely,

John Dawson (Arcam)

[lmccauley]

Thanks for the reply, John.

I'm a little confused about the need for copy protection on PS-output. I've had a look at macrovision's site and they only mention unauthorized copies to VCR. Surely you can't make a copy to VCR using component or RGB outputs from a DVD player whether they're macrovision protected or not.

Also, it seems fairly pointless to restrict the manufacture of DVD players but not external de-interlacers with 576p output. I could quite legitemately buy an Arcam DV88 + iScan pro to get 576p without macrovision, but not a DV27. Is it only me that finds this illogical?

Cheers,
Liam

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"Do you hear that, Mr. Anderson? That is the sound of inevitability."

I know this isn't a general Arcam suport forum, but being as it is that I have been unable to contact anyone at Arcam, I'll post my questions here

I'm very interested in FMJ DV-27 and I know many others are as well, but everybody has been a bit scared by the Denon DVD-2800 incident.

Therefor I'd like to ask the Arcam team the following questions in the hope that even one of them would be answered:

1. Does the internal scaler use the MC503 coprocessor along with SIL503? If so, does it use the the stock SIL microcode or something tuned by Arcam (Camelot did their own microcode for Roundtable, I understand).

2. Whose mpeg decoder does FMJ DV 27 use? If it is NOT Panasonic or Mediamatics, does it include any additional tricks to alleviate the chroma upsampling bug?

3. Does DV27 do all it's tricks in digital domain before converting to 480p output or is there an additional analog conversion somewhere in between?

4. Does the player reveal it's digital signal source on the main board (as to allow for a third party SDI output modification ala Vigatec/Pioneer 737)?

5. Does the player actually perform PAL deinterlacing even though it doesn't output 576p?

6. The press release mentions support for "some mp3 tracks". What encoders/bit rates are supported (or tested with)?

7. Does the player output the full chroma signal without any roll-off? If not, where does it begin to roll-off?

8. Are audio discs at 44.1 kHz upsampled to 96kHz? Can this feature be toggled?

9. Does the $1500 price include the upcoming DVD-A upgrade or is it priced on top of the original asking price? Any planned price for that?

I'm guessing some of the above question may be something that Arcam employees may not or cannot tackle, but I'm posting them in the hopes that they just ignore parts that cannot be answered.

Hoping for a top notch player and not another "almost there kind of like a top notch" player

cheers,
Halcyon

[Gordon @ Convergent AV]

Halcyon,

I'm not sure of man of the answers so lets hope John Dawson pops along and answers them for you.

I'm just looking to see the end result.

Gordon

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StereoStereo
Intelligent Solutions for Intelligent Homes !

[John Dawson]

Hi Halcyon (who are you BTW, apart from an avid reader of avsforum?) - that's a lot of questions. I'll try to answer a few of them :-)

1. Does the internal scaler use the MC503 coprocessor along with SIL503? If so, does it use the the stock SIL microcode or something tuned by Arcam (Camelot did their own microcode for Roundtable, I understand).

Yes of course we use the MC503, implemented as a PIC with latest SiI source code. They are the experts here.

2. Whose mpeg decoder does FMJ DV 27 use? If it is NOT Panasonic or Mediamatics, does it include any additional tricks to alleviate the chroma upsampling bug?

It's a Zoran Vaddis 3. Lots of this stuff is on our website at www.arcam.co.uk BTW.
Any artefacts of the so called chroma upsampling bug are not particularly obtrusive in our critical opinion, using either NEC plasma or Sony WS LCD projectors (the units we have at work).

3. Does DV27 do all it's tricks in digital domain before converting to 480p output or is there an additional analog conversion somewhere in between?

All in the digital domain (as it should be done).

4. Does the player reveal it's digital signal source on the main board (as to allow for a third party SDI output modification ala Vigatec/Pioneer 737)?

I couldn't possibly comment, but how do you think we get the signals up to the SiI board (which is our in-house design BTW, not the SiI OEM part)?

5. Does the player actually perform PAL deinterlacing even though it doesn't output 576p?

The chipset is capable of this. We are not allowed to output such a signal however, due to current CSS restrictions.

6. The press release mentions support for "some mp3 tracks". What encoders/bit rates are supported (or tested with)?

Most fixed rate MP3s but not the lowest ones. Can't remember them all - ask support@arcam.co.uk for the list if it really matters to you. Any encoder that meets the spec should work.

7. Does the player output the full chroma signal without any roll-off? If not, where does it begin to roll-off?

Pass - but I think full bandwidth.

8. Are audio discs at 44.1 kHz upsampled to 96kHz? Can this feature be toggled?

No and therefore no. But the audio quality is damned good :-)

9. Does the $1500 price include the upcoming DVD-A upgrade or is it priced on top of the original asking price? Any planned price for that?

Actually more like $2500 (£1600 in the UK). This doesn't include the DVD-A upgrade which needs a different Zoran part and associated firmware, still in development. You therefore will get a new DSP board and firmware (and 4 extra audio DACs). No price yet but we hope not too much. $500 would be a sensible guess - this is not a quote however!

I'm guessing some of the above question may be something that Arcam employees may not or cannot tackle, but I'm posting them in the hopes that they just ignore parts that cannot be answered.

Hoping for a top notch player and not another "almost there kind of like a top notch" player.

So are we :-)
The proof of the pudding will be in the eating as they say in the UK.

HTH.

John Dawson (Arcam)

Originally posted by John Dawson:
Hi Halcyon (who are you BTW, apart from an avid reader of avsforum?) - that's a lot of questions. I'll try to answer a few of them :-)

... and answer you did, oh boy

Thank you so much for taking the time to address my questions - I really appreciate it. It looks like you will get a few more new clients from Finland just on the basis of your previous post.

I'm just an ordinary consumer from Finland, who would like to buy a good DVD player that also happens to be a good CD player and doesn't become obsolete in 2 months like everything else these days. The FMJ 27 looks like it fits the bill perfectly.

If only one could have 576p as well, but situation being as it is, I would be more than content with an excellent 480p / 576i player as well.

Thanks again for your comments. Now the waiting starts...

cheers,
Halcyon

PS I had already posted pretty much the same questions to Arcam's support e-mail earlier (three weeks ago I think), but have received no response. Do you reckon I should try again with the mp3 specific question?

So why would someone buy the DV27 over the DV88 if they had an external scaler or am I missing something?

[John Dawson]

Halcyon - On the topic of MP3 support, I looked up our internal verification tests on the DV88 and the supported rates are in stereo - 96kHz, 112kHz, 128kHz, 160kHz, 192kHz and 256kHz. In mono it supports 48kHz and 64kHz. It may support higher rates in both mono and stereo but these were not checked. Lower rates are not supported. All sample rates 44.1kHz. Multisession discs are not supported nor variable rate ones. Remeber the best sound quality will be at higheer bit rates and with a decent encoder (there are many poor ones out there!).
I believe support@arcam.co.uk has a copy of this test and other helpful notes in pdf form.

As to Jenz's last point, the DV27 has a 3 layer sontek chassis, better audio DACs and an extra (toroidal) audio power transformer as well as the prog scan board. It also has the rather nice FMJ case. You pay your money and take your choice :-)

John Dawson (Arcam)