Blu-ray Player Shootout at TLC Broadcast

**Phil Hinton** · 22-12-2008, 4:00 AM

Forum members Ian_S and Vipers invite AVForums.tv to sit in on their 8 player Blu-ray shootout. You can read their thoughts in the thread in the Blu-ray players forum HERE

We hope you enjoy this production from the AVForums team. Please reply with your comments.
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Kenny Glasgow · 22-12-2008, 9:24 AM

Superb Phil

domtheone · 22-12-2008, 6:47 PM

Yep. Very good

namuk · 22-12-2008, 9:03 PM

Thanks for posting this

Top job also

cooperda · 22-12-2008, 10:32 PM

Good report guys - but I would have liked a bit of info on where the PS3 came within that grouping.

Given that it does other things - is it still holding its own against the low and middle range of Blu-Ray players.

cheers, cooperda

kingfats · 22-12-2008, 11:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cooperda

Good report guys - but I would have liked a bit of info on where the PS3 came within that grouping.

Given that it does other things - is it still holding its own against the low and middle range of Blu-Ray players.

cheers, cooperda

Some info here.

David Mackenzie · 23-12-2008, 1:34 AM

Interesting shootout.

Me and Phil were talking about this. From all the *video* tests I've done, I've had no reason to believe that the PS3 is putting out anything other than what it gets in when connected to a 1080p/24 display (OK, it upsamples chroma to 4:2:2 for output, but other than this).

Most concerning to me is the talk of some players appearing softer than others. I've not seen this myself, but if it is the case then I'd be very worried indeed and would imagine that it's post processing of some sort (in the player, after the video decoding stage) causing problems.

I look forward to further tests in this area, but for now I can say that if I had reason to believe a fully configured PS3 was causing a loss of resolution, then I would eBay the thing quicker than you can say "PayPal accepted"

and certainly wouldn't use it to evaluate test encodes (for when I begin work on Blu-ray Disc titles). From my own perspective, I'm not yet in the position to believe that there is an absolute correlation between picture quality and price.

With that said, I can certainly believe that there are differences in shadow detail. I imagine the engineers implementing whatever company's decoder/processor/SOC chip have ample opportunity to get things like Gamma wrong. The question is... who's is right?

namuk · 23-12-2008, 3:07 AM

Yea but then you have to think about how many hardware changes the PS3 has been though, i think this is were the mixed options come from. i.e some can have the older version or the newer version.. also some people will say there all the same

Built at the lowest bidder.

David Mackenzie · 23-12-2008, 3:14 AM

With the PS3, all of the work is done in software, unless I'm mistaken; I don't think there is a dedicated video processing chip in there currently. But as you say, that could change... and firmware updates could also alter playback quality. Scary...

namuk · 23-12-2008, 3:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Mackenzie

With the PS3, all of the work is done in software, unless I'm mistaken; I don't think there is a dedicated video processing chip in there currently. But as you say, that could change... and firmware updates could also alter playback quality. Scary...

Thats why i never got involved

the ps3 is really a upgradeable computer, i no sounds geeky . also they did change the drive big differance IMOP. there is version charts on net but mmm there only the changes you will see thats why they posted the chart if you get my drift. odd mate i tell you not

David Mackenzie · 23-12-2008, 3:34 AM

There'd have to be some really, really problematic content (i.e. the kind that wouldn't make it past a studio's Verification) for the drive to affect the video, though.

namuk · 23-12-2008, 3:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Mackenzie

There'd have to be some really, really problematic content (i.e. the kind that wouldn't make it past a studio's Verification) for the drive to affect the video, though.

True

but has there been any version 2 of any blu-ray player out there? other than the PS3 also you have to remmeber the player was out in the HD-DVD war.

now the war has slacked, when was the 40gb version launched? thats why the BUSH player looks good, if you no what i mean. just my veiw mate thats all..

Mr Quint · 23-12-2008, 10:45 AM

Nice.

I use my Ps3 for Blu-Ray viewing and when I bought my Ps3 ( For MotorStorm alone ) I had forgot that it was also a Bu-Ray player

. At one time for me the words Games Console & DVD Player in the same sentence was a big No No. Games Console for Games & Stand alone DVD Player for watching DVD's.

My way of thinking was soon turned around when I watched my free copy of Talladega Nights: The Ballad of Ricky Bobby on Blu-Ray, the Ps3 is going to remain my player of choice until a dedicated player arrives that can get the wife and I a drink from the fridge part way through a movie.

Thanks.

cooperda · 23-12-2008, 3:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Mackenzie

With the PS3, all of the work is done in software, unless I'm mistaken; I don't think there is a dedicated video processing chip in there currently. But as you say, that could change... and firmware updates could also alter playback quality. Scary...

Well softwre update sorted out the Upscaling of DVDs.

Cheers, cooperda

stuartbrown21 · 23-12-2008, 6:15 PM

Interesting read...and also a pain in the ar*e!! (PS3 user here). I've always assumed that PQ would be all but equal between players, I guess this sheds a new light on it. I suppose TBH in the real world to the average consumer, they will probably be hooking their shiny new player up to their 40" uncalibrated TV, so in this scenario the differences won't be too apparent (I imagine to the average Joe Bloggs even the worst Blu-Ray PQ still looks mightily impressive).

A quick question. The test equipment was all really top kit and perfectly calibrated. Were the players themselves calibrated in any way? (this is just a question and I am possibly betraying the limits of my knowledge). By this I mean are there any player adjustments possible that would go some way to bringing the performance of the different players closer into line?

roba666 · 23-12-2008, 6:26 PM

I think Steve went to my school, Sele, if not i'm sure i've seen him around Hertford!

R

David Mackenzie · 23-12-2008, 6:46 PM

Quote:

By this I mean are there any player adjustments possible that would go some way to bringing the performance of the different players closer into line?

Yes, there certainly are. Most standalone players now are incorporating basic video processing features such as Sharpness adjustments, and sometimes 2D/3D Noise Reduction controls (Panasonic).

I just want a player that plays what's on the disc!

namuk · 30-12-2008, 1:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Mackenzie

Yes, there certainly are. Most standalone players now are incorporating basic video processing features such as Sharpness adjustments, and sometimes 2D/3D Noise Reduction controls (Panasonic).

I just want a player that plays what's on the disc!

Bang on the dam button there and your the first to say (well what i have seen) only way is a old school player as anything other is upscale only .

i miss my old pioneer dvd 717 player

still got it but it plays up on dual layer transfer

works with cd's ok..

Thats why i am thinking just get a old dvd player. there nothing to buy now and worth a try that 717 i had crist that was a good sd dvd player, and i questioned this my self a few years ago when i replaced it

only my eyes judged it.

quick link

DVD Reviewer - Hardware Reviews - The Pioneer DV-717

if you can get one cheap it is worth the risk and test , trust me

or near the same level i.e higher models they all come scart of course..

David Mackenzie · 30-12-2008, 11:52 PM

Quote:

DVD Reviewer - Hardware Reviews - The Pioneer DV-717

Oof, the reviewer scores it 10/10 and then reveals that he's using Composite Video!

That looks like a real tank of a machine. It freezes up around the dual layer mark, you say? Did yours always do that, is it a problem model? This is of great interest to me since I master and author DVD Video discs. I have an excuse to collect oodles of players to use for testing

namuk · 31-12-2008, 2:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Mackenzie

Oof, the reviewer scores it 10/10 and then reveals that he's using Composite Video!

That looks like a real tank of a machine. It freezes up around the dual layer mark, you say? Did yours always do that, is it a problem model? This is of great interest to me since I master and author DVD Video discs. I have an excuse to collect oodles of players to use for testing

Thats why i posted the long post

.. no the 717 was fine i used it every night for years i basically played it to death, i think the laser is at fault with player i.e the DUAL laser pickup (hard to throw away) i was surprised it failed at all.. i still see them players running now

my mother uses it now for CD playback connected to a cheap sound system SD RCA leads also , the funny thing is she can hear a difference and i mean allot

she is 70 and half deaf mad i no, she told me other day stop looking for a new stereo i am fine with that and sound is well good

(well she said more than that) if you saw the setup you would laugh, i never thought she would like the setup due how stupid it looked, you no what there like everything tidy.. just shows,, i was shocked

but happy also.. class machine.

I think the last none scaler DVD player that was released for pioneer was a DV868AVi this had HDMI out also if used but has scart also . but that was pioneer..

for the money you can get them for it is worth the risk, with you doing hardware reviews now this is def a bonus in your book for SD playback (none scaled) good test

, my mate last month give his 737 away (can not remember model but it cost him £650) i only just found this out

-Ad- · 03-01-2009, 10:47 AM

Great stuff guys, and that is some commitment to reviewing there

But it's not what I wanted to read regarding the PS3, especially as I was going to get my Pio ISFd with it as my blu-ray player for a number of years. But alas I haven't seen the difference and think it looks marvelous, so maybe I should stay away from the TLC showroom, as after a number of demos there for tvs, I found that I could notice subtle differences between the screens and probably could with blu players too

mackie1 · 06-01-2009, 1:19 PM

Regarding the audio quality from the PS3, dynamic range compression seems to be on by default. Was this definitely turned off for the test?

eiren · 06-01-2009, 2:35 PM

I'm still thoroughly skeptical... I've had an LX70a and a PS3 sat next to each other on a 103" screen, and can't see any difference once both inputs are calibrated correctly. I sent the Pioneer back.

I'm going to head down to TLC some time soon and see for myself though.

murfy100 · 09-01-2009, 2:52 PM

why didn't the shootout include Panasonic Blu-Ray players?

I would have thought the BD55 would have come very close to the top below the Pioneers.

**Ian_S** · 09-01-2009, 4:03 PM

Only reason Panasonic wasn't included was that none of us had one...

I-Spy · 14-01-2009, 1:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eiren

I'm still thoroughly skeptical... I've had an LX70a and a PS3 sat next to each other on a 103" screen, and can't see any difference once both inputs are calibrated correctly. I sent the Pioneer back.

I'm going to head down to TLC some time soon and see for myself though.

Hi, I'll be comparing the Denon 2500BT against the PS3 tomorrow/Friday.

What kind of calibration were you doing? I've got the AVE Essentials blu-ray to hand which I was planning to use to 'calibrate' the display to the 2500BT output (the projector is already 'calibrated' to the PS3). Or are you talking about calibrating the output from the players themselves? If so, should I use AVE Ess to do that or is there another method I'm not aware of?

Cheers.