[Stuart Wright]

T&W Marketing show off their Platinum specified custom home cinema costing over £150,000

We hope you enjoy this production from the AVForums team. Please reply with your comments.
Options to view:

• Click the image below to begin playing now (requires Flash player installed on your computer)
• Via our TV productions home page at www.AVForums.tv
• Via our YouTube home
• Via our iTunes home
• or download a Windows Media Video here.

Also you may subscribe to the MP4 (for your video iPod etc.) by clicking this button:

[Neil Davidson]

Just wanted to post a quick message to Phil to thank him for his efforts in making these videos to such a great level. To give some idea it took two days of filming and around four days of editing to bring the coverage from our event to all AV Forums members!

Amazing stuff Phil

We also hope that forum members enjoy this video that gives some idea of what can be done, hopefully those handsome T+W devils don't put you off watching through!!!

[crimsoneagle]

Fantastic video!!

The stuff dreams are made of...

Again many thanks for this

[Greg]

Hey, that famous Scottish person was in my house! (not the one in the grubby yellow t-shirt )

But seriously, another quality production there Phil, these are so much more enjoyable for me personally to watch, rather than to listen. They are very professionally done aswell.

That system looked amazing, as soon as I win the lottery Neil, you can come back to my (hopefully new mansion sized) house and install it.

Keep them coming!

[meansizzler]

Is it just me or did that image on the PJ Screen look washed out?, also note the fact that for £150,00 one would expect the image to not overscan the PJ screen.. like the fact that it resizes when your playing 4x3 and 16x9 content but the overscan and washed out put me off, like they said the first 30 seconds that make it or break it....., as for equalizer never liked them....

[Phil Hinton]

Originally Posted by meansizzler

Is it just me or did that image on the PJ Screen look washed out?, also note the fact that for £150,00 one would expect the image to not overscan the PJ screen.. like the fact that it resizes when your playing 4x3 and 16x9 content but the overscan and washed out put me off, like they said the first 30 seconds that make it or break it....., as for equalizer never liked them....

It's just you...........

This was the best projected image I have seen in a very long time, properly calibrated by guys with serious experience and suitably qualified with the best calibration equipment available. It is shot on a £500 HDV camera in circumstances where the camera cannot possibily get enough light to produce an image close to what was seen in the flesh. It's used as a snap shot of what was being shown, but certainly does no justice to the actual image being shown by the guys.
As for EQ, fine you have made your mind up on something you have not heard. I can tell you that this sound system was so good that I don't think I will personally ever own one coming close to this in performance terms, and most of that was down to the processor and the knowledge of the guys installing it. (We measured at one point a constant 115db sound pressure level when we were messing about, it was still crystal clear and not fatiging, just your head eventually felt like it was going to explode with the sub pressure!). Impressive stuff indeed, but it's not for everyone (mainly due to price).

I have no idea what you were on about with overscan? Where?

[GrahamMG]

Not to mention the 1000w of lights that were on so we didn't fall over Phil and his camera gear
Seriously, once the correct lighting was set for the actual demo's and the big door was shut stopping the sunlight from entering the room, the whole thing took on a sense of meaning that really did look like a million dollars but didn't cost anything like that

[GrahamMG]

Originally Posted by Neil Davidson

Just wanted to post a quick message to Phil to thank him for his efforts in making these videos to such a great level. To give some idea it took two days of filming and around four days of editing to bring the coverage from our event to all AV Forums members!

Amazing stuff Phil

We also hope that forum members enjoy this video that gives some idea of what can be done, hopefully those handsome T+W devils don't put you off watching through!!!

I'll second that, Phil really does an amazing job and makes it look so easy which we all know is not true, anyone that has tried to edit their home movie footage will know what I mean. Phil spends a lot of time and effort doing this stuff for the AVForums, we should all be very thankful to him.

[meansizzler]

The video 48-50S in, what is that bright light shrinking horizontally?, also I remember seeing a JVC LCOS Projector in action at the Videoforum in Feb 2005, now that was an experience, no sound but great PQ..., so no doubting how great the PQ is.... although that is a demo room right hence why it looked so messy, i.e projector mounted in plain sight on some ugly rails, I take it a Home Install will look nothing like that?

[Phil Hinton]

Originally Posted by meansizzler

The video 48-50S in, what is that bright light shrinking horizontally?, although that is a demo room right hence why it looked so messy, i.e projector mounted in plain sight on some ugly rails, I take it a Home Install will look nothing like that?

The piece of video you are talking about (48-50 seconds) is the screen research screen and its masking system. There are a number of 2.35:1 screens from various manufacturers which employ this type of system. The screen research is acoustically transparent. The masking works from 4:3, to 16:9, to 2.35:1 depending on what you are watching and always remains the same height - as it should. The guys had it set up so the masking moved when you changed material, in that shot we are going from a 2.35:1 movie clip to the PS3 menu screen at 1.78:1 hence the masking is coming in automatically to the 1.78:1 screen size. This automation and the fact it has full masking and can show all movie formats in the correct ratios with no black bars is the plus point of anamorphic projection and this screen system, you really have to see it in person to get the emotional feel. Just like the real cinema!

This was a demo room and set up to show dealers what is possible, I will leave it to Neil or Graham to explain exactly what kind of design systems they use to hide the equipment further.

[meansizzler]

Originally Posted by Phil Hinton

The piece of video you are talking about (48-50 seconds) is the screen research screen and its masking system.

OK thank now at 1.40 to 1.48 the PS3 XMB the top part of it is not covered by the bright light, does this mean it's off the screen?, confusing, guess I need to see it in person, and the fact that the door is wide open does not help...

[Apone]

I am a big fan of EQ in the home cinema. A demo of Audyssey EQ in my home was one of the most convincing reasons why the room has to be taken into account when trying to get the best from your home cinema system.

A friend of mine worked at a cinema and the screens were Eq'd regularly by the guys at Dolby.

That Dolby Lake unit certainly looks sexy to say the least. Out of interest how much is a Dolby LAKE processsor?

[Neil Davidson]

Originally Posted by meansizzler

OK thank now at 1.40 to 1.48 the PS3 XMB the top part of it is not covered by the bright light, does this mean it's off the screen?, confusing, guess I need to see it in person, and the fact that the door is wide open does not help...

Just as before, the section you describe is the system moving from 2.35:1 to 1.78:1. This is what is known as a constant height system so the height doesn't change, only the width.

At 1min 40 you can see that the lens in front of the projector moves out of the light path, the video processor changes the scaling of the image and the electric side masks pull in to the edge of the 1.78:1 image. Nothing is missing from the screen.

Note that the room lights were actually on in the short section you mention which makes the white screen go grey during the short time the masks are moving to cover the unused screen area.

EDIT:

The Casino Royale scene at 2mins 55 should make it more obvious what is happening.

[Neil Davidson]

Originally Posted by meansizzler

.... although that is a demo room right hence why it looked so messy, i.e projector mounted in plain sight on some ugly rails, I take it a Home Install will look nothing like that?

The demo was a special event to allow dealers to check out the kit hence pretty important that it was all in plain sight!

You are correct that in a normal install of this type none of the equipment apart from the screen, the control and some part of the front speakers, everything is hidden away out of sight. The best option is a small room on the back of the main cinema to house the projector and the rest of the equipment although there are many other good ways of hiding it all away...

[GrahamMG]

Originally Posted by meansizzler

although that is a demo room right hence why it looked so messy, i.e projector mounted in plain sight on some ugly rails, I take it a Home Install will look nothing like that?

Hi.
Urm, not sure what you are really asking here? This was a demo for professional dealers and their clients to "see" all the kit that makes a reference home cinema, not a lot of point hiding it all as they need to see the mountings, connections, features etc. and be shown all the buttons and what they do. Of course a full home install would be vastly different as the install would effectively hide all the bits the dealers wanted to see :-) To be honest everybody was looking at the PQ and listening to the sound when the actual demo's were running.

Please remember that for Phil to video all this some light was necessary so the kit could be seen, do not think that the demo was anything less than presented in as good conditions as the facility allowed and the timescale we had available to set it up in (8 hours....for both rooms!). As the video says, everyone left feeling very emotional, it really was that good and a real pleasure to be part of.

[GrahamMG]

Hehehehehehe, some of us type faster than others (not to mention the loo break part way through typing my missive!)

[apul]

Originally Posted by Phil Hinton

It's just you...........

I can tell you that this sound system was so good that I don't think I will personally ever own one coming close to this in performance terms, and most of that was down to the processor and the knowledge of the guys installing it.

Well I'm sure I don't live very far from you so if you do win the lottery I'll be sneaking in to have a go when you're out!

[Gliese 581c]

Do they accept payment terms of £1 a week for 150,000 weeks ?

[Neil Davidson]

Originally Posted by Gliese 581c

Do they accept payment terms of £1 a week for 150,000 weeks ?

No!

[Gliese 581c]

Originally Posted by Neil Davidson

No!

Thats a shame

[LicensedTaximan]

Originally Posted by Gliese 581c

Do they accept payment terms of £1 a week for 150,000 weeks ?

Yeah me to, but I'm prepared to pay £2 so only 75,000 of 'em.
I felt leeetal tears of joy well up when I saw the masking go back to reveal the wider aspect ratio....ooh just like the Empire at Leicester Square. Ok I know other cinemas have all that but the Empire is something else.

By the way I had to watch the podcast via Windows media, for some reason it kept freezing on the AV Forums poddy.

Phil this podcast was just great (as usual) even though like most of us on this particular level of AV heaven It would be just a pipe dream to me.

[Alien370mm]

I agree with the last quote “you don’t get this everyday”. Unless anyone as been to the Empire that inspired me to go with JBL 19 years ago and some of the early first THX 70mm presentations I can still feel the bass and sub bass lows on my body, now then.

The Dolby lake is wonderful; beast in nice package, I think the price tag is few ££££grand.

My Behringer DCX2496 does time align and crossover tailoring as well as temperature of the room, basic EQ and dynamic EQ and fast attack audio limiters and little more, all for under £200.00 pounds.

I went one such home cinema dealer in the past no names and it wasn’t even near or close with the sound it was too large a room with home cinema size loudspeakers in room that was close to 40 feet in length by 20 feet in width ceiling was around 8 or 9 feet and it never surpassed what Empire has already done.

Always shop around for home cinema installation equipment, because some dealers will stiff you, I kidd you not!

Best search is Google Product, use that and you’ll find bargains galore.

That JVC video projector looked very neat with the remote sliding anamorphic lens, very nice thou I’d like to change lenses manually just like the cinema otherwise you become to lazy, it’s an art to flip from W/S to scope in the cinema and timing.

But it’s an option I guess the remote sliding thingy looks like it only costs a £100.00 pounds bet they charge more for something that looks like its been around before.

The masking was very cool and it’s not new to me been there done it in the real cinema.

Cost and winning the lottery, well if you plan the basics out and fish around on Google Product, then you should score very well without going over budget.

I noticed some of the loudspeakers where not matching in that video and they still keep getting it wrong even to this day.

“Film is original, television isn’t”.
David Lean 1988.

I sure hope the wall speaker they mentioned has matching speakers LCR with active crossover.

Well someday I’ll get a video projector off Google Product, until then the CRT 25” is staying put!

[GrahamMG]

Hi.

A few points to make here, firstly the Dolby lake is a completely different beast to the Behringer and frankly the two products cannot ever be compared to each other they are just sooooo different it would be laughable. The Dolby Lake is state of the professional art and in use in the very best cinema's and concert venues if you want the best this is it. The Empire probably has one (or 5)!

Anamorphic lens sleds are quite complicated and necessarily very accurate as they have to position the lens in exactly the same place every time and be finely controlled, from an engineering point of view you would not get a product onto the drawing board for £100, sorry but that simply isn't realistic.

"some of the speakers were not matching in the video", sorry but that is just plain incorrect, what do you think was wrong?

As for "your hopes", this is reference quality product, of course your hopes would be met and if your watching a 25" CRT currently I'd say your wildest dreams also

[Alien370mm]

Originally Posted by GrahamMG

Hi.

A few points to make here, firstly the Dolby lake is a completely different beast to the Behringer and frankly the two products cannot ever be compared to each other they are just sooooo different it would be laughable. The Dolby Lake is state of the professional art and in use in the very best cinema's and concert venues if you want the best this is it. The Empire probably has one (or 5)!

Anamorphic lens sleds are quite complicated and necessarily very accurate as they have to position the lens in exactly the same place every time and be finely controlled, from an engineering point of view you would not get a product onto the drawing board for £100, sorry but that simply isn't realistic.

"some of the speakers were not matching in the video", sorry but that is just plain incorrect, what do you think was wrong?

As for "your hopes", this is reference quality product, of course your hopes would be met and if your watching a 25" CRT currently I'd say your wildest dreams also

No Empire is running with dbx4800 and they sound wicked! Here are some pictures that I took last July 26^th 2007.

The Dolby Lake processor was around at the time of the £500.000 state of the art customized JBLTHX installation


I see what you mean by the Dolby Lake and I’ve been looking at some youtube video late of last year on the product, just haven’t got the dosh for it, but some of the principles of it can’t be far off from the dbx4800 otherwise I’m baffled as to why Bell Theatre Services UK would design a new custom JBL THX sound system, and just go with dbx4800 which mind you, have received THX certification and there are only two in the UK. The Millennium Dome cinema or what ever, they have dbx4800 and then there’s the odd ole Empire, and we Brits should be proud of our, British Empire 1 with 56 yummy KW!

If I had £6.000.00 to blow I’d have dbx4800 running right now, but I’m poor person with common sense to look around at the options, and so DCX2496 fit the bill 100%! I’ve had more flexible use out it in the 10 or so months now where’s before I was feeling really deeply depressed with the sound reproduction from my JBL control 5, now they sing just that bit more louder with out the harshness, now then, take your pick boys and girls.

So I’ll have to keep attending the Empire now and then but if LOL I keep attending now and then at nearly £20.00 travelling and £13.50 admission fee, then I’m not going to get any closer to a video projector LOL.

[meansizzler]

What's with the £100 sliding mechanism comment, laughable, thinks at least £500-£1000 for that mechanism... so no support for WMA 10 Pro over bitstream?..., I think even the Pioneer's Maxed out at WMA 9 Pro and the xbox 360 does not even support 10 Pro over analogue.... hmm.. must get in contact with that what's his name Amir from Microsoft at AVS maybe he can sort it all out, not a happy bunny playing the Ninja Gaiden 2 Trailer on the Xbox 360 only to find out there is no sound!!!!....

You'd think for that much they would incorporate it though, ., guess you'd have to stick with the HTPC and Media Player 11 to decoding and pass it out over analogue...

[meansizzler]

Nice pics form above noticed the DTS device, has 3 CD players, does that mean that some film soundtracks are to big to fit on a single disc?

[GrahamMG]

Originally Posted by meansizzler

What's with the £100 sliding mechanism comment, laughable, thinks at least £500-£1000 for that mechanism... so no support for WMA 10 Pro over bitstream?..., I think even the Pioneer's Maxed out at WMA 9 Pro and the xbox 360 does not even support 10 Pro over analogue.... hmm.. must get in contact with that what's his name Amir from Microsoft at AVS maybe he can sort it all out, not a happy bunny playing the Ninja Gaiden 2 Trailer on the Xbox 360 only to find out there is no sound!!!!....

You'd think for that much they would incorporate it though, ., guess you'd have to stick with the HTPC and Media Player 11 to decoding and pass it out over analogue...

???

We are still talking about high end home cineme here, right? I've not had any XBOX360 game not output sound from its optical output into any audio surround processor if that is what you were asking?

[GrahamMG]

Originally Posted by meansizzler

Nice pics form above noticed the DTS device, has 3 CD players, does that mean that some film soundtracks are to big to fit on a single disc?

Yer, nice pics, not really custom install home theatre though Commercial sound systems tend to be sold as a package and use whatever the system designer signs off on, they tend to not wander very far from the
spec they used last time due to commercial testing etc. eating up profits etc.....
For the domestic high end the Dolby Lake is about as good as it can get, they use them at very high profile live events and the list of artists that own or use them is impressive. As for THX approval, I am sure many many things meet the spec, its just the £25k licence fee to have the sticker on the front is a bit of a hurdle when install busgets have to be met. A 2500 seat theatre doesn't have those issues....
Anyway, we are a bit off topic now so....

[Phil Hinton]

This thread is for comment on the video above and custom home cinema in general. It is not about commercial cinema either in the west end or anywhere else. It is about what can be achieved with proper consultation, design and the right spec of equipment.

If you want to discuss the merits of commercial cinema then please do that elsewhere on the forum where it is better suited.

The idea of the video above was to show what can be done from one point of view and what people can aspire to achieving in their own home cinemas, lets please keep the discussion on that topic.

[timmorris]

This screams conflict of interest to me. Neil is supposed to be able to provide ubiased technical opinion. Now I've come across Neil off forum and he is incredibly knowledgeable and helpful and I have no reason to doubt his integrity, but you simply can't have a forum sponsor as a technical editor.

Tim