[Demon]

Having just sold my Tosh 50WH18B, I find myself with a clean slate, and money in my pocket, but I need a TV to replace my (much beloved) Tosh 50" RPTV...

I've done the rounds, been for some demo's of plasma's etc, and the best 36" Tosh / Panny, etc , yet I find myself back looking at another RPTV...

But why, all my mates think I'm mad buying what they think is a piece of cak...

Its no surprise that people think RPTV's are pants... just go into curry's/comet etc and just look at the RPTV's, they look bloody awful....

I was looking at the new models the other day, when some 'geezer' just stands next to me, and says "I can't believe people but this crap, just look how dull and blurred they are".. and sure enough, stood next to the RPTV's was a Tosh PF2 in all its glory... mega sharp/bright picture...
I just pointed out that you need to be roughly at the right distance/angle to see an RPTV set correctly, and just walked him back 5 paces, at which point the RPTV suddenly looked twice as bright as the 36".. with all the detail etc..

Not that this would have swayed him, I have to admit, that when you are wandering around the shop, its very clear that RPTV's have viewing angle issues that don't plague plasma and CRT... and if you ever show people an RPTV set in a highstreet store, you can never convince them that viewing angle is not an issue... because you are stood up, wandering around, all the other sets look OK, but the RPTV's stand out a mile for their off-angle performance..

I come accross a lot of skeptics, the guy who bought my 50" Tosh brought an 'expert' mate round, who incidentally had a Plasma TV (Hitachi 42PD3000)... I knew things would be tough when they walked through the door, (I was watching Moto GP on sky), the experts first sentence was "Hmm, I see, I told you RPTV's were really dull, they've got no viewing angle", to which I simply replied "If you'd just like to take a seat anywhere in the room, I'm sure it'll look a lot better..
And after putting on Monsters Inc, I never heard another word from the expert.. except he seemed suddenly converted.. he couldn't beleive the amount of detail, the vivd colours, or the contrast of the set, he had been telling his mate how on his plasma, you could see all the hairs on the 'bears back', but admitted to being able to see some aliasing effects, yet was astounded that on the RPTV you could see every hair, which looked perfectly in focus, yet there wasn't any noticeable artefacts at all..

I demo'd 7 Films, to show the set off to its best. Needless to say the set passed the 'experts' inspections, and he didn't even haggle on the price...

Just before I order the Tosh 51WH36P.. am I foolsih getting a 3rd RPTV in a row, and should I be breaking the bank to get a 42" plasma??? PQ is paramount.. its for everyday use, as well as Home Cinema....

My predujices so far seem to be
CRT- All I see is horrible geometry, and the picture looks compressed, and you know there is more detail then the set's size is capable of displaying.
PLASMA - All I see on these is poor contrast, or lots of digital artefacts... I haven't yet seen one that doesn't give an artificial look to the image.

Aye man my Toshiba CRT RPTV 42" 50hz at £1K blows away the Fujitsu hi-def Plasma that my dealer has.

Banding all over the place, mpeg artifacts- gradients, terrible colours, blurred, pixels that are viewable from 3M away; and dead pixels.

Plasma owners always put down CRT RP's because they're forked out several times as much for a same sized CRT RPTV. They're kidding themselves and refuse to admit they've bought over priced & lesser picture quality display.

My mate was also skeptical about the RPTV- saw the model I was going to buy in Currys (said it looked awful); when I ordered it and set it up your should have seen his face! Gobsmacked. Every time I pop into my local hifi shop I sneer at the Plasma PQ. He's got a CRT Front Projector as well and that's brilliant too.

I would either buy a CRT RP or a CRT Front Projector- I would leave Plasma and LCD screens/LCD Projection alone.

[Kevo]

I got exactly the same response form my mates at work when I bought my Tosh RP over a year ago now.
They thought I was mad, for all the usual reasons (myths) as mentioned above.

Anyway, I invited one of 'em round for a demo and needless to say he was gobsmacked at the PQ and admitted he was wrong

I think if he ever gets a new TV it'll be a RP

Yup iv also seen a fully setup RPTV and the picture quality is the dogs. People always complain about the viewing angle but then your not going to watch a movie stood up and standing in the corner of the room are you?

Iv just seen the new Tosh 42WH36 in currys but the set was switched off so i can not report on the picture quality. The new cabinet design is very nice indeed and even beats the sony efforts in my opinion!

[kwangomango]

Originally posted by bodyfodder
People always complain about the viewing angle but then your not going to watch a movie stood up and standing in the corner of the room are you?

Depending on how many people are with you though, some may be viewing from quite a shallow angle.
I don't know too much about RPTVs so have tended to avoid them. Most i have seen in shops have a kind of washed out look to them, but nothing is ever set up well instore.
How do they fair during daylight conditions? Is the viewing angle still quite shallow?

From the RPTVs iv seen its the vertical viewing angle that has the most problems. If all the people who are watching the set are sat at a reasonable vertical level then it should be fine as the horizontal view is much better. This may differ set to set.

I dont own a rear projection but have been mulling over one the last few months and have grown tempted by the screen size. Still gonna wait for the new Loewe model tho

One advantage CRT RP's offer over normal direct view sets- geometry adjustment. If the set bends half way up the screen this can be adjusted in the convergence menu.

From seeing 36" CRT's with awful geometry I would gladly pay for this; and since a 42" RP is cheaper than a 36" direct view you're getting best of both worlds!

My RP has near perfect geometry- you can only see the odd couple of mm here and there that's out with Avia grids. Certainly not worth bothering about, nor worth spending time correcting. Wheras your stuck with non correctable 1" or 2" bends on a CRT direct view.

[Kevo]

Originally posted by kwangomango
How do they fair during daylight conditions? Is the viewing angle still quite shallow?

My looks fine in daylight conditions.

The vertical angle is shallow but never been a problem.
Horizontal angle is quite wide, perfect for normal viewing.

Also the 100Hz is one of the best I've seen.

[Demon]

Depending on how many people are with you though, some may be viewing from quite a shallow angle. I don't know too much about RPTVs so have tended to avoid them. Most i have seen in shops have a kind of washed out look to them, but nothing is ever set up well instore

Exactly what I mean.. no disrespect, but that is the typical, 'naive' view of RPTV's..

In fact you can sit anywhere in the room and there appears to be absolutely no issues with viewing angle, its strange.... this is just not conveyed by going to curry's, the viewing angle is somewhere theoretically in the 130/140 degree zone, which in practise covers 90% of the room. Of course, get ridiculously close on axis, and the brightness is non-uniform, but viewed off-axis at 160->180 Degrees, the picture is uniformly lit, but 'darker' then normal... quite amazing really...

As for washed out.. well as long as you site anywhere 130-140 degree zone, the RPTV kicks CRT into touch... they are at least 50% brighter then CRT, or at least mine was...

And As for sunlight, well, this is something I always laugh at... I originally had a 32" Widescreen CRT, that on bright summer days, the reflected light rendered it almost unwatchable.. but the Toshiba RPTV's have a superb non-reflective screen, which means that no matter how bright it gets, you still get a bright and vivid picture. Now Plasma/CRT and some RPTVs (Sony 44PX2 for instance) have reflective screens, and having seen them in bright situations still suffer from relfections, and become almost unwatchable...

Originally posted by Demon
some RPTVs (Sony 44PX2 for instance) have reflective screens, and having seen them in bright situations still suffer from relfections, and become almost unwatchable...

I normally don't stick up for Sony TV's- being a Toshiba owner anyway the screen stack can probably be re-shuffled, as they have several layers. I believe the shiny screen is a protector. If you shuffle the screens and place this one at the back- with the non reflective frensel at the front you can sort this problem. I do agree with you this reflective layer degrading the image though.

[JohnC]

Very many thanks for the informative comments on this thread!!
I've been playing with the idea of RPTV for a few years..... Only once have I seen one set up correctly in a shop and I was 'GOB SMACKED' by the colours and detail!! just amazing!!

Since then I have had a good look around Currys and Comet (and the like) fully intending buying one....... only to find its a complete turn off!!!!..... and trying to convince the wife is almost impossible!!

However this thread has renewed my interest, I just need to make a choice of which one to buy???????

Toshiba seems to be the brand to go for and with new models coming in now, the ones that are being replaced are selling at very reasonable prices!!........ But which to go for!! that's the thing?? anything from 42 to51 inch would probably suit me!!

Any advice any one???
Regards John C

What's your budget?

If you can stretch to the new models as thes offer (I think NTSC Progressive, unsure of PAL)

Measure out the dimensions of the entire cabinets starting from the 42" to the biggest one, and see which is OK.

What is your viewing distance?

[JohnC]

Hi Nathan
Well seeing as its first time I didnt want to go for something too expensive!

Ones around £1K seem very good value but I would be prepared to go to £1.5K....

I suppose I will have to go for a 42 inch (it isnt a large room! Viewing distance is about 9 feet!!

I currently have a 33 inch Toshiba CRT job which is pretty deep.

Many thanks for such a quick responce John C

Looking on unbeatable-

The 42WH36P at £1120. Not sure of exact specs.

Another one is the 51WH36P at £1344. Not sure of exact specs.

57WH36P is £1718.

Oh my 42" is only 42 cm deep!- less than my 28" CRT Widescreen!

First two letters in the product code is the screen size. I would go for the 51", this seems the best price per inch (only slightly more from 42" to 51", but quite a big jump from 51" to 57")

[Demon]

One good use of curry's/comet is to take a tape measure, and try and get a store that has a Sofa by the TV's.. some of them have several leather sofa's just waiting to be used!!!

Then measure your viewing distance, and move the sofa.. then see what it looks like!!!! The staf are normally all to willing to help, especially if you look interested...

I had the 50 at a viewing distance of 10-14 feet (depenfing where the missus had moved the sofa (a 6 Monthly ritual women seem to stick to !!) and this seemed fine..

I've just ordered the 51WH36P from unbeatable, but delivery times are long (2+ weeks) due to lack of stock from Toshiba... it being a new model/v popular..

(the 51WH36P is PAL and NTSC Progressive scan, but nicam sound (ideal since most external amp/speakers sound better anyway!!))

Does anyone have full specs on the new Tosh's

Mate is possibly thinking about getting one; he likes my 42PW23P- and can't stand 100hz processing. If the new models are 100hz only and have the Pixel Plus type thing (ie Philips)

Its in german but here ya go

http://www.toshiba.de/consumer/default.htm

Goto Produkte and then Toshvision Grossbild TV.

Looks like they dont update the uk site that often

I ordered a 51wh36 some weeks ago, still waiting, anyone know when they will be available?

Cheers for that.. looking at the specs.

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Black Stripe "Toshibas innovative picture screen surface for back projection televisions. The special surface of the new Black Stripe screen lets the reflections on the picture screen surface almost disappear. In addition it brings particularly high-contrast, brilliante and bright television pictures out. "

Pixel Processing- "If a picture monitor from next proximity is regarded, is to recognize that the television picture of pixels, also pixels mentioned, consists. The more pixels to be produced, the picture is the sharper and more deteilgenauer. By PIXELS processing is doubled the number of pixels which can be represented. The television picture captivates by sharpness and detail wealth. "

Native Vision "oshibas new picture concept ActiveVision offers a unique selection of different framings in the 100 cycles per second or progressive Scan enterprise. 100 cycles per second: The attitude 100 cycles per second supplies a picture without large surface flickering, however remains to line flares. Naturally: In the 100 cycles per second enterprise is avoided that line flares, owing to 100 cycles per second DFS. Movement: Apart from the line flare reduction during this framing digitally Perfect Motion is activated for liquid moving representation. Frame: The TV provides frames from half-images (like it over the antenna connection, video recorders or DVD Player to be passed on). Likewise frames can be used by the DVD Player. "

42 PW33 P- 50hz, but no Component input. Nicam

42 WH36 P- 100hz (and the bigger models) PAL/NTSC Progressive, Component input, Pixel Processing.

I think all that Pixel Processing stuff is just a fancy name for the sets Progress mode that featured on the PF2 and the Strata series.

The main thing here is the addition of Progscan via component as this should give great results at these sizes

[kwangomango]

Originally posted by bodyfodder
I think all that Pixel Processing stuff is just a fancy name for the sets Progress mode that featured on the PF2 and the Strata series.

Nope. Pixel+ is a processing algorithm which actually creates extra data by interpolation from existing data. It results in an artificial increase in picture resolution. Progress mode is an internal deinterlacing mode in the Tosh sets. They are very different things.

Hmm thanks for that info

It seems strange that in the sets instruction manual there is no mention of this feature anywhere.
I might seek out one of these sets and ask to connect a progressive dvd player to see the results.

This has got ot be the best crt based RPTV out there at the moment.

[kwangomango]

OOps
I should really read the rest of the thread before replying. I misread Pixel Processing to be Pixel+ Processing. Ignore what i just said as it doesn't apply here.

Have you still not decided what set to go for yet? You seem to be changing your mind every 5 mins

Yeah i know its bad news

I decide on one thing and then somethin else comes up! Im just waiting for my room to be decorated at the mo and then ill buy. In the meantime im just sizing up my options.

I might just end up going for one of the RPTVs and if its **** then im getting a loewe

They are brilliant. If the xx36xx range were HDTV and DVI I would sell my 42PW23P cheap to my parents.... they have a 14" 4:3!!! and buy the new model.

But it looks like HDTV & DVI RP's will be a few years away.

Oh the agony of choice...

Loewe Nemos and Sony DVPNS930 (component out)

or.........

Toshiba 42WH36 and Toshiba 530e (PAL prog)

Iv got about 2 weeks to decide

Oh and check this out for a RPTV setup!!!!
http://gallery.avsforum.com/showphot...t=1&thecat=500

[quadmad]

Why have none of the magazines reviewed the new Tosh sets as Curry etc seem to already have their hands on these sets

[clancol]

people are saying that these tv tosh **36**accept proggressive inputs.
I just want to clear this up.
Does this mean that it accepts the real progressive scan inputs as used by plasma's and projecters. or is it just a fancy name for some sort of pixel shuffle.

Yes these new sets feature component inputs and can accept a real progressive (PAL and NTSC) from an external source. Also included is a new feature called "Pixel Processing" which makes an attempt at creating a progressive image from an interlaced source (such as RGB scart).

[clancol]

but i thought it was imposs for crt to do progressive