[Cheng]

Hi,

I have a 36ZT29B, however I notice whenever I turn on progressive scan I get a combing effect, much like the effect of interlaced? (Fed from a tosh 220 via component).

Anyone else have this problem or know how to solve it?

Thanks.

the toshiba 220 doesn't support proggresive scan

[Cheng]

The tv does it internally...

[perrdl]

Originally posted by Cheng
The tv does it internally...

I don't think it does!!!!

You will need to buy a prog scan DVD player.

This TV does have internal Prog-Scan, but has to be set manually in the TV's menu.

If you had Prog-Scan DVD, it would then switch automatic to P.S.

John

[bibooo]

Cheng,

This isn't a problem I'm aware of as I use Progress Mode for all Pal material. I've never seen any combing effect.

Which picture mode are you using and what sort of material are you watching (NTSC/PAL)?

What does the picture look like in one of the 100Hz modes?

Does it improve or degrade the picture using Progress Mode?

You're better off buying a pro scan DVD player (Tosh 520) and using true pro scan (for NTSC) rather than the set's internal de-interlacer (perrdl - YOU ARE WRONG!).

Your only other option is to call a service engineer or send it back.

[perrdl]

Sorry......I stand corrected.

[bibooo]

Must.........not.........bite

[Cheng]

Originally posted by bibooo


Which picture mode are you using and what sort of material are you watching (NTSC/PAL)?

**Mainly NTSC, PM - I will check this out tomorrow**

What does the picture look like in one of the 100Hz modes?

**Clean edges, scan liney , no visible 'spikes'**

Does it improve or degrade the picture using Progress Mode?

**The picture is a lot more flickery, but tbh I can't really tell, will have a closer look tomorrow**

You're better off buying a pro scan DVD player (Tosh 520) and using true pro scan (for NTSC) rather than the set's internal de-interlacer (perrdl - YOU ARE WRONG!).

**Hehe, however I just bought this player @ X-mas, and I can't take it back now! However, its good enough for the price **

Your only other option is to call a service engineer or send it back.

**I'm not sure on the severity of the other numerous problems i've heard about yet, I haven't tried to look for them as if I do it would surely alleviate their problems in my mind significantly! **

[Cheng]

The effects are very similar to this pic;

http://www.progressivescan.co.uk/int...advantages.php

Also:

Saw tooth artifacts are also possible in progressive images where the interlaced to progressive conversion has been inaccurate and has either:

not paired the correct fields to make a frame or
inaccurately detected motion in an image sequence or
not adequately dealt with images that consist of a mixture of progressive and interlaced material

Does that mean I can do anything? Or do any of you guys get this?

[Cheng]

I can see the lines very visibly upclose however; I sit about 3-4 m away so I can't see them but that's not the point!

[Cheng]

Here are some pics:

As you can see, there is a combing effect

[bibooo]

Very interesting. I can honestly say I haven't seen this problem with any of the five (or was it six) ZDs I owned (temporarily).

It must be a problem with the internal de-interlacer? As your quote states, the paired images seem out of sync.

I would be interested to see if Toshiba can come up with an explanation. I'm afraid I am out of ideas (which is unusual).

bibooo

[Cheng]

I've emailed them; would it be better to phone; i.e. is their email support crap?

[Cheng]

Reply as follows:

Thank you for your recent enquiry. Please find the information that you
requested as follows:
The SD220 does not have progressive scan out put this is why you get
distortion on the screen and there is no way of changing this by a firm
ware upgrade or software upgrade, the only way to solve your problem is to
buy an SD9500 0r SD520.

Can you guys definitely confirm that the strata televisions de-interlace internally, so you can play WITHOUT a PS player?

I know this is pretty obvious, but I don't want to be shouting out facts to a Toshiba Employee to be told that I am wrong.

Cheers,

Cheng

[bibooo]

Toshiba are talking b*llocks. I use my SD900e in interlaced mode when watching Pal material, I've never experienced the problems you have.

Try to talk to someone who knows what they are talking about, the person who emailed you obviously doesn't!

[Cheng]

I'm thinking the stratas don't support 3:2 pulldown, hence why my ntsc movies are buggered...As I said, since I don't have many r2 discs, I haven't noticed it with them...

I will email them again...

So the stratas definitely have a internal de-interlacer?

[bibooo]

I'm thinking the stratas don't support 3:2 pulldown, hence why my ntsc movies are buggered...As I said, since I don't have many r2 discs, I haven't noticed it with them...

I don't think that's it either, I have tried NTSC pro scan from my DVD player vs. NTSC interlaced in Progress Mode and the differences (although apparent) were subtle. I have never seen your problem with Pal or NTSC interlaced in Progress Mode.

The funny thing is, that Toshiba keep going on about Progress Mode being suited to NTSC material only (they are wrong), but in your case NTSC material is causing the problem. Go figure.

ZDs do have an internal de-interlacer, it does quite a good job of eliminating line structure. Obviously nothing beats the real thing, but you shouldn't be getting the results you have shown.

IMO you should push for a replacement, but then I would say that, I've had six of them.

[Cheng]

Well, this is their reply after I sent them another email!

Thank you for your recent enquiry. Please find the information that you
requested as follows:

The 36ZT29 does not have an internal de-interlacer. It is able to accept a
progressive scan signal through the component video input from an NTSC
source. The TV cannot accept a PAL progressive scan input.

As the SD220E does not give a progressive scan output you should not need
to use the Progressive mode on the TV.

When watching the NTSC disc you are providing an interlaced signal but
telling the TV that the input signal is progressive scan. This is causing
the picture distortion.

This seems to me to be BS about the de-interlacer!

[bibooo]

If you feed the TV a true pro scan signal, you will not have the option to select Progress Mode, they are talking utter, utter rubbish.

It seems they are saying that in order to watch something which is in pro scan, you need to set the TV to Progress Mode. YOU CAN'T SELECT PROGRESS MODE IF IT'S TRUE PROGRESSIVE SCAN (I'm not shouting at you, I'm shouting at the "helpful" person at Toshiba).

Progress Mode should be used with any interlaced material to give you a "pseudo" progressive scan picture, in other words it has an internal de-interlacer.

[Swearing removed, do not swear again or you risk being banned. - mod] Toshiba, try to know a little about the products you are manufacturing!

[Cheng]

The only way I could explain this is that the TV can detect PAL or NTSC
signals and work out what needs to be done to display them. When it sees a
PAL picture it "knows" that there is only the interlaced mode available so
it ignores the scan mode setting.

When it sees NTSC there are two possible modes so it then uses the scan
mode that has been set. If this does not correspond to the signal the
picture is distorted.

If a progressive scan picture is provided to a TV that cannot accept this
mode the picture will be distorted. This TV can accept a progressive scan
signal but it has to be told that the input is a progressive scan signal.
This is similar to the AV Connection menu where the TV has to be told that
it is getting an AV or S-Video signal.

Mmmmm....I need more evidence before I can ask for a replacement...

On another topic, their email support is fantastic, they reply quickly

[kwangomango]

I too have noticed these combing effects when running my Avia disc via scart, with the tv in "Progress." mode. The Hue/Saturation screen has these saw tooths between the colour blocks. They disappear if you switch to any of the other modes.
Normally this won't be a problem as i will be watching all of my dvds in 480p from my Philips 963sa. I will soon however, be purchasing a UK Gamecube and am worried that when using the Pal60 mode with "Progress.", these problems will occur. Can anyone confirm whether it is a 60Hz problem or purely an NTSC problem.
I take it this a "feature" of the tv and not a fault?

[skirpydoink]

Glad i read this post, this problem is really annoying me.

I have my Toshiba 520E, my Ntsc-PS2, XBox and GameCube hooked up to this TV with Component Connection.

I dont have any combing effect when watching DVDs Pal/Ntsc on either Progressive or interlaced, but on all my consoles i get this problem when running in interlaced, the picture is perfect when running in Progressive Scan.

Is this something i need to put up with or can it be sorted?

I posted a few times in the original Toshiba 36ZT29 post that got started a while back, i had a problem with my Component Connections breaking off, it did,nt effect my Picture but as it was only a couple of weeks old at the time i phoned Toshiba to get it fixed.

After a couple of months of phoning and explaining problems with this TV i gave up and did,nt bother anymore. I did,nt want to hand in a TV that was only 2 weeks old to get fixed.

I really like this TV now that it seems to have settled down but this combing effect while playing console games in interlaced is quite annoying especially as some people dont seem to have it.

I have tried it on all the picture modes but it does not seem to make any difference.

[kwangomango]

Have just got a Gamecube with Zelda and unfortunately the problem is there only when running 60Hz mode with tv in "Progress". The problem appears to be more of a colour bleed issue. All of the red lettering in "Zelda" on the title screen has combing/saw tooth as displayed in the chimney in the picture posted above. It doen't appear to affect any other colours in the image. What is causing this?