[ProfessorYaffle]

OK, so the Samsung HD CRT is the Russian Roulette of TV procurement.

But surely the clamour for this set (and the immense amount of interest therein) must prove to manufacturers that there's a big market out there for a HD CRT?

We WILL NOT buy your over-priced flat panels with their immature technology! So, sell them to the people who want big screens in small spaces and sell us a TV with a decent picture! Hell, I'd even accept a 25" HD CRT so it doesn't compromise your vulgar profit margins on flat panels...

So... PLEASE make us a 21" and/or 25" HD CRT with a conventional tube! It'll fill the back bedrooms of Britain in no time once the console owners and second-telly seekers get to see it. And your precious flat panel market will be safe.

What are you waiting for? (and don't say SED...)

[warbie]

Agreed.

I'd happily spend 1.5k on a decent 32-36" HD CRT, but wouldn't buy any current plasma or lcd screen. I also think you're right in that a smaller version for a reasonable price would sell like hotcakes.

[SuperSaiyan4]

There is nothing wrong with plasmas and lcds, they have been out for years!!

I have a 32inch lcd hdtv and its way better than that new so-called hdcrt.

[warbie]

This thread isn't about the current Samsung CRT, SuperSaiyan4. I wouldn't buy one of those either.

A decent HD crt would poo all over current lcd and plasma screens.

[SuperSaiyan4]

Originally Posted by warbie

This thread isn't about the current Samsung CRT, SuperSaiyan4. I wouldn't buy one of those either.

A decent HD crt would poo all over current lcd and plasma screens.

Thought the o/p mentioned the Samsung never mind.

I cant see why they cannot make a HD CRT like the PC monitors whats different about PC monitors that they cannot just make much bigger?

I am extremely happy with my LCD and soo are a lot of other people.

Its funny when a cheaper alternative comes out everyone starts saying LCD and Plasma are rubbish - 2 faced or what!

[warbie]

Originally Posted by SuperSaiyan4

Its funny when a cheaper alternative comes out everyone starts saying LCD and Plasma are rubbish - 2 faced or what!

I don't think price is the reason why some people don't like lcd and plasma screens, it certainly isn't for me.

[vrb]

Well..

The new Philips 32" CRD HD set is on sale in Slovakia at the moment for about £550 so expect it here soon and then we'll all be able to make a comparison between it and the 32" lcd screens out there.

[warbie]

Last I heard that wasn't being released in the uk.

[Valcor]

Originally Posted by warbie

Last I heard that wasn't being released in the uk.

Same here - I emailed Philips last week and there are 'no plans to release this tv in th UK, sorry' etc.

[ProfessorYaffle]

I've seen so many LCDs and plasmas up close and personal (in Singapore at trade shows). Great for static ior slow moving images, but they all irritate me in the extreme with fast-motion images. The shimmery, smeary mess & suspect shades make my blood boil, especially given they cost, at best, 3 times as much as my JVC CRT that has a great picture for £250.

Going from my laptop to desktop is bliss, as the latter has a CRT monitor and the colours and image quality shines through.

An high-end flat panel MAY do a decent job of HD, but what are we comparing them with? A flawed, non-quality assured shambles of a CRT that STILL demonstrates in some small part that a better HD CRT would wipe the floor with any flat panel out there.

Some savvy manufacturer, once the flat panel fad has died down a little, should put a decent little HD CRT out there and watch the accolades (and money) roll in.

If you've got a flat panel and are delighted with it, good for you. I just can't justify spending that much on something that is no more than a stop-gap in televisual technology. CRT may be dying, but so did Elvis. And he's still the King...

Originally Posted by ProfessorYaffle

CRT may be dying, but so did Elvis. And he's still the King...

Haha... that is awesome.

I agree with the remainder of your post as well but I just _had_ to highlight this.

[chaparral]

Originally Posted by SuperSaiyan4

I have a 32inch lcd hdtv and its way better than that new so-called hdcrt.

Well my new so-called hdcrt is High Definition so there is nothing so-called about it.
and yes it does poo all over lcd and plasma its a fantastic set.

[Nick_UK]

There are problems with CRT which will never go away, and which Plasma don't suffer....

1. Bad picture geometry
2. Picture "balooning" with brightness content (poor EHT regulation)
3. Bad focus at the picture edges
4. Poor convergeance which drifts with age
5. Colour impurities caused by stray magnetic fields
6. Flicker if 50Hz, poor resolution if 100Hz.
7. Their sheer bulk !

Sure, plasma TV's aren't perfect by any means, but there's no way I'd ever swap my plasma display for a CRT.

[Quexex]

I've just ditched my Sammy due to numerous problems (see the main thread)

I love CRT's but the slim fit makes too many compromises, therefore I'm going to try my first LCD, which acording to the reviews could just give CRT a run for it's money and since I wil have tried both I'll report my finding a few weeks lets see if the best LCD can offer at the moment the Sony KLV32V2000U (twice the price of the Sammy).
I agree it would be nice to see some non slim fit tubes but anythnig totally flat will have the same corner focus issues, although they may not be as bad as slim fit tubes!

Cheers

Quexex

[hamster]

Originally Posted by ProfessorYaffle

Some savvy manufacturer, once the flat panel fad has died down a little, should put a decent little HD CRT out there and watch the accolades (and money) roll in.

Sounds like your pitch to the venture capital firm.
Enjoy...

I worked in the CRT business from engineer to director level of a tube maker and got made redundant in 2002 as the business collapsed.

There's no such thing as a perfect display technology, and many LCDs are truly awful - but a good set now really does challenge CRT.

However if you are going to do a good job I also suggest that you go back to FSTs, as they were markedly better than Flat face CRT.

I reckon that your market size might just be one though by then...
...and a couple of strange people who like gravy on salad.

[warbie]

Originally Posted by Nick_UK

There are problems with CRT which will never go away, and which Plasma don't suffer....

1. Bad picture geometry
2. Picture "balooning" with brightness content (poor EHT regulation)
3. Bad focus at the picture edges
4. Poor convergeance which drifts with age
5. Colour impurities caused by stray magnetic fields
6. Flicker if 50Hz, poor resolution if 100Hz.
7. Their sheer bulk !

Sure, plasma TV's aren't perfect by any means, but there's no way I'd ever swap my plasma display for a CRT.

Each to their own.

Most of those issues you mention don't bother me at all. The geometry on a crt, unless really bad, isn't noticeable while watching movies or playing games. Not on one occasion with the lcd and plasma screens i've bought over the last few months did I think, 'ooh, check out the perfect geometry on these, this is much better than my crt'. A non issue.

I've never had a set that suffer from issues 2 to 5 to the extent you notice them during general use - only when you try really hard to see them. I guess the quality of the individual crt comes into play here.

As for 50hz - it was the superiority of motion on a 50hz crt that convinced me to sell my PX60. Add the dodgy handling of horizontal panning (this was very annoying) to the 'green flashes' during gaming, and making the decision to sell the plasma was very easy. All of its problems were very obvious and very annoying (especially the smearing during motion), the problems with my crt are rarely noticeable, and don't annoy me even when I do.

I didn't realise how good my crt was I untill I started buying lcd and plasma screens.

[KyoDash]

Everyone seems to be forgeting one of the biggest reasons why LCD, Plasma or even SED won't overcome CRT.

Native resolution.

A CRT is capable of displying many resolutions natively if it is mylti-sync. The Samsung one does 576p, 480p and 1080i natively. Even SED cannot do this, meaning anything lower res than the panels will be digitally scalled.

I expect new technology to better a 50 year old standard not pale in comparision. And while Plasma's are coming closer to CRT quality, if you get a HD one you're screwed for anything not HD.

I only hope someone out there makes a 16:9 monitor for PC's which has component, VGA and HDMI, or at least a decent multi-sync CRT whithout geometry problems and at least do 480p and 720 natively.

[GaryB]

Originally Posted by ProfessorYaffle

Some savvy manufacturer, once the flat panel fad has died down a little, should put a decent little HD CRT out there and watch the accolades (and money) roll in.

If that were true, someone would have done it by now. Whilst there is a niche market out there for a very high end CRT set, the production volumes would certainly not justify the development and production costs. I work for a manufacturer and we've researched the market extensively, but the sums just don't add up, they're not even remotely close to making a product viable.

Unfortunately accolades don't pay the wages. That takes sales, and they just aren't there in sufficient volume any more.

[MartinImber]

If there was a market I think Sony would have had a go - they had the most to lose with their Trinitron technology.

I'm still on CRT

[ProfessorYaffle]

If there weren't any HD CRT TVs in existence, I'd understand the argument that it's not economically viable to produce one. However, I understand that 1080i HD CRTs with HDMI are commonplace in the States (correct me if I am wrong though) and are emerging in other parts of Europe. So, what makes the UK market so different? OK, the power input would be different, but isn't an HDMI source just an HDMI source? Isn't the whole PAL/NTSC thing irrelevant? I'm confused.

Mmmm... Sony HD Trinitron TV with HDMI... Drool...

Hell, let's start a petition!

[tigertimtim]

yes the Philips is being released alll over europe, all we want is for them to release it here like they said they would, iam desperate to buy a hdtv thats CRT but will never buy plasma or lcd so i will be forced to wait for SED,
unless i move to europe then i can watch high def on a philips crt

[hamster]

Originally Posted by KyoDash

Native resolution.

A CRT is capable of displying many resolutions natively if it is mylti-sync. The Samsung one does 576p, 480p and 1080i natively. Even SED cannot do this, meaning anything lower res than the panels will be digitally scalled.

You assume the CRT resolution is related to scanning.
The limitation is the focus spot size. I worked in the development of 1080i CRTs for the USA in 2000-2002. The resolution of 1080 lines was only ever achievable in the centre of the screen. In the corners, astygmatism, defocussing, the oblique angle of the electron beam on the screen and dynamic convergence imperfections all meant that we never could achieve 1080 vertical resolution. For horizontal resolution, we hit up against the spot being comet-shaped as it moves so fast across the screen - only dimming the screen helped, but that isn't a practical proposition, though broadcasters do it in control rooms. Also we would have needed to make a finer shadow mask and phosphor structure which gave problems in light output, robustness and vibration from audio (microphony). We never got 1920 resolution.

So essentially, 1920x1080 was a practicable limit for CRT.