[ivormills]

I have just purchased a Toshiba 32" CRT, and I am dissapointed with the picture quality in certain areas.
My first reaction was that the picture was 'soft' and lacked definition. It performed fine with DVD's and certain programmes were better than others.
I always think the adverts can be a good guide to quality, as they are usually made to a high standard, but even these can be poor and when the packaging is shown the lettering appears soft and rounded and not crisp. Also my Sky menu lettering appears unsharp.
I had the retailers engineer call to check it out and although he agreed that the picture was not perfect did not feel the set was faulty. The picture on my previous set was fine, although this was a standard format 23". The retailer has agreed to send a 'senior' engineer if I require a second opinion, but could the problem be elsewhere? The set is connected to a Sky box and DVD via scarts and I exclusively watch Sky, so all my broadcasts come through the dish. The Toshiba has an integrated Freeview box which I assume comes through the terrestial ariel, but the picture quality here is much the same. One other interesting thing, I watched Coronation Street last night (sad I know!) and the picture quality was not good, soft and lacking in definition in the faces except on close ups which were considerably better, after, I watched Heartbeat and the quality was very good, no problem at all, so I am at a loss. I am considering getting a Sky installer to check the ariel and box etc; but as I said it was perfect before, so that may not be the problem. I asked the engineer if the scart leads could be a problem, he said they were fine.

Any help would be much appreciated.

Charlie

[kevmarshall]

I have a 32" Toshiba ZP18P and PQ from Sky+ is generaly very good.

Does your set have RGB input on one or more scarts?

If so, make sure sky+ is connected to this - then make sure sky+ picture settings is set to RGB not PAL.

[ivormills]

Hi Kev,

Thanks for your reply, I am at work so I cannot check the set. Would the scart input be marked 'RGB'?
On settings I have it set on RGB.

Thanks

Charlie

[kevmarshall]

Very unlikely but it will tell you in the TV Instruction Manual which (if any) of your TVs scart connections take RGB.

If none of them do, I would set Sky+ to PAL.

NB. I am no techie but I have had this TV for 4 years and Sky+ for 2. In other words I have done a lot of fiddling!

[shortround]

What you're seeing could be the result of SVM. This is a horrible picture sharpening technique that many TVs use that only ever seems to make the picture worse. God knows why manufacturers use it.

If your tosh is anythng like mine, it should have 3 'Picture Modes'. Select Picture Mode 3 as this is the mode that disables the SVM. You can then make any further adjustments (brightness, contrast etc) from there.

Also, be aware that most TVs come from the factory in 'torch' mode. Turning down the brightness and contrast to proper levels (usually about midway or just above) will aslo help the picture a great deal and prevent unnecessary wear on the tube.

[scooby do]

Short round beat me to it, does sound like SVM to me

[ivormills]

Thanks for your suggestions, I have tried this out and yes the picture is better, but still in some of the areas I mentioned before the image has a 'waxy' feel at times........but maybe I am being too fussy?

Charlie

Hi

If you are saying that picture quality is ok on some channels and not ok on other channels, then the problem is not with your TV.
More than likely you are seeing broadcast faults because your picture size has been increased.

Set SKY to RGB, and make sure you use one of the TVs RGB scart sockets.

Nigel

[ivormills]

I have had another visit from an independent engineer who checked the Sky signal, which was fine. He agreed the picture looked soft and should be sharper. His first suggestion was to change the scart, I purchased a Belkin Pure/AV scart which I will try later. He also said my Sky Box was old and could be the problem, it is an 8 year old Amsrad! He said I should consider a Sky HD box. My set is not 'HD ready' but he said I would benefit frrom the upgrade as all the standard channels would be enhanced and the quality change would be dramatic. Comments?

Charlie

[JayCee]

Originally Posted by ivormills

but he said I would benefit frrom the upgrade as all the standard channels would be enhanced and the quality change would be dramatic. Comments?

He's talking rubbish.

Hi

Are you still saying picture quality is ok on some channels?
Did the engineer say the picture was soft on all channels?

It does sound like he was talking garbage.

Nigel

[Cmoth]

I think a newer box would make a difference as remember that the aerial feed goes to the skybox first then to the TV via scart etc, so some quality will be lost for sure. Later boxes will be of higher quality than the early ones.

Are you using the TV in one of the expand modes as im guessing that your amstrad is not widescreen compat so you are expanding a 4 by 3 picture to fill a 16 by 9 which again will affect the quality.

Hope this helps a bit.

[JayCee]

Originally Posted by Cmoth

I think a newer box would make a difference as remember that the aerial feed goes to the skybox first then to the TV via scart etc, so some quality will be lost for sure.

Your theory doesn't hold water.
If you read the OPs original message you will see that he watches Sky exclusively and anyway no quality is lost on an analogue signal via a Sky digibox.

[Cmoth]

im no expert, so you may be right, I posted my response based on my own experiences, of which I still feel they will be a difference but probably not enough to justify the lack of expected quality as per the inital thread.

[ivormills]

Well I asked for comments, and many thanks for your replys, now I am more confused than ever . I fitted the new 'expensive' scart and it made no difference at all. The scart is fitted to the RGB output and Sky is set to RGB.The engineer did agree that the picture lacked sharpness, but to clarify the picture issue, because I said it looked better on some channels than others, maybe I should have said better on some programmes than others although the problem exists on most when you have longer shots with objects further away, the definition is poor. For instance during a live studio news broadcast the presenters look quite sharp in close up but as soon as the camera zooms out to include two or more presenters the definition is poor. As I said before, on adverts the quality can be quite good but as soon as the product placement is shown it can look quite blurry with a lack of definition on any lettering, oh and Startrek looks particularly soft! I never noticed these problems with my old set, but maybe it is because of the larger picture, but I thought it would to be better than it is. Sorry to be so long winded, but it is difficult to describe a visual problem in writing.
A couple of points, the engineer checked the Sky signal and said it was OK, when I go into 'Signal Test' on the handset the signal strength is about 80-85%, signal quality varies between 20-40%, is this an issue?
Also, as I said, the Sky box is now very old. I accept from what has been said that the recommendation to go to an HD box would not give the improvement the engineer implied, but would I not benefit from some improvement in picture quality with a new box and if so, what would you recommend?

[shortround]

Do you have the 'Scart Control' set to On on the Sky box? Some TVs will not switch to RGB unless the Scart Control is on (sends a voltage to a switching pin on the Scart input).

The quality of the Sky output can depend on the type of mpeg decoder used in the sky box and on the quality of circuitry used to convert the signal to analogue, so a new sky box may show a small improvement, but is probably not the source of all your picture quality problems. Although as far as I'm aware, the Amstrad boxes are not considered to be the best (the Panasonics are well regarded, I use a DSB30 myself). The TV itself may need calibrating for convergence and such like, but this is an expensive job if you don't know how to do it yourself.

[stanleyntl]

Originally Posted by ivormills

A couple of points, the engineer checked the Sky signal and said it was OK, when I go into 'Signal Test' on the handset the signal strength is about 80-85%, signal quality varies between 20-40%, is this an issue?

The signal quality you have is poor and could well be the cause of your problem.
(Signal strength is related to cable run.) You should be aiming for a figure of 70% signal quality with a good installation.
You need to call out a CAI registered satellite installer to take a look, he can also advise whether a new box is called for.

[JayCee]

Originally Posted by stanleyntl

The signal quality you have is poor and could well be the cause of your problem.

I doubt this very much and if IVORMILLS was to follow your advice would only involve him in getting a bill from an aerial rigger for unnecessary work.
He has never mentioned any signal breakup problems at all.
If you read his posts carefully you will see that he is complaining of poor definition pictures occasionally and I am convinced more than ever that he is just seeing poorly compressed broadcasts.

[ivormills]

To answer Shortrounds question, the scart control is set to on.
Having had the advantage to watch a full weekends viewing, I am trying to access what exactly the problem is and it is not easy.
Some programmes I have no problem with, but others lack definition and sharpness and this is not because it is a poor quality original, as some live studio broadcasts look poor. I think that on a very high quality transmission the problem shows less, but because of the problem anything else, which should be acceptable becomes less so. I am a commercial photographer by trade, so I can recognise a good quality picture and a poor one that is caused by a poor quality broadcast video etc.
I asked the question originally because I wanted to be sure that it was not a problem with the set, because if it was and could not be rectified, it would be replaced within a 28 day period, which it is still within. However, because some pictures can be extremely good, I am feeling it is less likely to be the set. Not being a technical expert on tv.... a question. A television connected to a terrestial ariel only, would, I assume, use the tv tuner circuits to produce the screen image. If a tv is connected through a dish and Skybox, is the picture produced by the Skybox sent straight to the screen, assuming there is a tuner in the box, therefore bypassing the tv's internal tuner, as it would be when playing a DVD?
If this is the case, can I assume that the TV is OK and the problem must be with the signal being provided to the set by the Skybox?

[red16v]

Hi, I would go with Jaycee on this one - poor quality of broadcast signal post compression stage at Sky's tx broadcasting centre.

[onkeh]

Yeah I agree, my dad has Sky and some programs look crappy and some don't, simple as. Star Trek the Next Generation looks especially terrible, VHS quality even.