[Nielo TM]

Is it because to create 720p, the electron gun must hit every phosphor at same time?

[neilmcl]

Try reading the forum a bit more: Samsung WS32Z409TQX HD Ready CRT with HDMI

[Nielo TM]

I read that and that CRT most likely upscale 720p to 1080i like all the American models.

[neilmcl]

Originally Posted by xvn5

I read that and that CRT most likely upscale 720p to 1080i like all the American models.

It must have a minimum of 720 lines to be classed as HD Ready. It'll scale no more or less than any other consumer LCD, plasma etc.

[Nielo TM]

Last time I checked 1080i is HD

[neilmcl]

Originally Posted by xvn5

Last time I checked 1080i is HD

What's your point

[Nielo TM]

Samsung scales 720p to 1080i, so it’s still considered HD.

[neilmcl]

Originally Posted by xvn5

Samsung scales 720p to 1080i, so it’s still considered HD.

Just because you've read some anecdotal and somewhat questionable information in another thread doesn't make it true. And for the record I haven't said that the Samsun isn't HD Ready, I merely said that it has to have a minimum vertical res of 720 lines to apply. After that who cares what it does to handle a 720p or 1080i video signal.

[Nielo TM]

That’s what I want to know (I'm more similar with the America FCC standards). I don’t care about 720p and 1080i, all I want to know is why is there isn’t any true large screen 720p CRT's

PS: 720p and 1080i are classified as HD by both American FCC/ATSC and European standard. So id the Samsung upscale 720p to 1080i, its still considered HD.

[KyoDash]

That’s what I want to know (I'm more similar with the America FCC standards). I don’t care about 720p and 1080i, all I want to know is why is there isn’t any true large screen 720p CRT's

It's largely an issue with costs. To produce a TV which can handle both 1080i and 720p natively without scaling would require the tube to handle completely different sync rates which isn't cheap to do. Multi-sync PC monitor above 21" rise dramatically in price, especially large widescreen versions.

It's inherently easier for manufactuers to simply have a HD CRT do 480p natively and 1080i as the sync rates are very close to each other. Plus it's much cheaper to produce and to maintain quality at larger sizes, without too much flicker and distortion.

Ultimately the closest thing we have right now is a widescreen PC monitor which can handle 480p through to 1080p.

It must have a minimum of 720 lines to be classed as HD Ready. It'll scale no more or less than any other consumer LCD, plasma etc.

Just becaue a CRT TV has 720 lines does not mean that it is capable of true 720p, it still may not be able to sync at the rate required for 720p. Instead it would scale 720p to 1080i using all 720 lines for the interlaced picture. Thus still being classified as HD Ready by UK standards.

[neilmcl]

Originally Posted by KyoDash

Just becaue a CRT TV has 720 lines does not mean that it is capable of true 720p, it still may not be able to sync at the rate required for 720p. Instead it would scale 720p to 1080i using all 720 lines for the interlaced picture. Thus still being classified as HD Ready by UK standards.

All I'm saying is that at the moment there is no evidence, other than the anecdotal, that this new Samsung is scaling 720p to 1080i rather than being able to output at 720p. Who's to say that it's not converting the 1080i input to 540p and then scaled itself.

[KyoDash]

I guess we don't know yet. But if does downscale 1080i to 540p then it's pretty much almost useless as a HDTV.

Ultimately since we're not going to get a true 720p CRT set for at least a couple of years, if they even bother. I'm only really interested to see if this set does 1080i natively and 480p natively.

Any 720p native set will no doubt scale 480p or 1080i, unless they do a true multi-sync tube. So from that point I'll be sticking to 480p for games (hate seeing them interlaced) and 1080i for HD TV and Film content. Or if they make a multi-sync HDCP complient arcade monitor I'll just use that. Sadly one with HDCP is unlikely to be made as nothing in the arcades uses it.

[Nielo TM]

There is no point in investing millions of dollars on a dying technology, instead, it could be spend on developing OLED, FED, SED, Transparent OLED etc…

PS: Sony completely terminated their CRT range.

[Nielo TM]

Originally Posted by neilmcl

All I'm saying is that at the moment there is no evidence, other than the anecdotal, that this new Samsung is scaling 720p to 1080i rather than being able to output at 720p. Who's to say that it's not converting the 1080i input to 540p and then scaled itself.

Evidence is that all American CRT's are 480i/p, 1080i native.

Here's part of my guide on X360 forums

Process of 1080i:
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯

Xbox 360 always produces progressive image, which at the moment we should all know. That progressive image is converted to interlace when 1080i has been chosen. The on-board video encoder chip inside the Xbox 360 splits the frames into two separate 540 horizontal fields called the odd field and even field. A 1080i CRT HDTV draws the first 540 odd fields (first frame) followed the 540 even fields (second frame) to produce 1080i@60Hz. This process occurs 60 times per second and it also depends upon the source video meaning it could also be 1080i@30Hz. CRT’s is capable of displaying interlaced signals without De-Interlacing; which produces more defined image.

[neilmcl]

Originally Posted by xvn5

Evidence is that all American CRT's are 480i/p, 1080i native.

Here's part of my guide on X360 forums

Process of 1080i:
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯

Xbox 360 always produces progressive image, which at the moment we should all know. That progressive image is converted to interlace when 1080i has been chosen. The on-board video encoder chip inside the Xbox 360 splits the frames into two separate 540 horizontal fields called the odd field and even field. A 1080i CRT HDTV draws the first 540 odd fields (first frame) followed the 540 even fields (second frame) to produce 1080i@60Hz. This process occurs 60 times per second and it also depends upon the source video meaning it could also be 1080i@30Hz. CRT’s is capable of displaying interlaced signals without De-Interlacing; which produces more defined image.

Well that it clears it up then

[KyoDash]

There is no point in investing millions of dollars on a dying technology, instead, it could be spend on developing OLED, FED, SED, Transparent OLED etc…

Actually there is a point. CRT is currently the only technology in which you can have multiple resolution displayed natively due to multi-syncing. SED and the others you mention are fixed pixel displays which are only good for one resolution, no use for anyone looking to play a wide range of sources. (PS3, 360, Dreamcast, DVDs etc).

If they produce an SED which is fully multi-sync, which in theory could be possibe since it uses similar technology to CRT then they can let the humble tube die out. But until then I'm sticking with a display that lets me view all of my sources in the original way intended.

[xavster]

I don't think it is possible to make a multi-sync SED - it uses a fixed pixel structure like plasma and LCD

[satinder]

Originally Posted by KyoDash

Actually there is a point. CRT is currently the only technology in which you can have multiple resolution displayed natively due to multi-syncing. SED and the others you mention are fixed pixel displays which are only good for one resolution, no use for anyone looking to play a wide range of sources. (PS3, 360, Dreamcast, DVDs etc).

Yes indeed CRT's rock and will always beat any similiar prices flatpanel, to my eyes at least .

Sat

[Nielo TM]

I love CRT's too, but the no1 CRT manufacture just completely discontinued their CRT line due to low demand.

Only TV that has the capability (however it only display1080i, restricted by Sony) display true 720p/1080p is Sony XBR Super Fine Pitch.

See, there are no CRT

[holiver]

I too believe that CRT is dead in the UK. With Sony no longer making them and many shops no longer stocking them, especially the high end ones there's not a lot out there for consumers to buy.

[Stone Free]

Originally Posted by holiver

I too believe that CRT is dead in the UK. With Sony no longer making them and many shops no longer stocking them, especially the high end ones there's not a lot out there for consumers to buy.

It may be dead in the UK, but new models are still being produced in the USA. As they have had HiDef for far longer than us and yet still produce CRTs then the technology is hardly dead.

There are still plenty of people who would carry on buying CRT sets, if they produced the same HiDef models here in the U.K.

[Nielo TM]

ya but Sony has decreased their link of CRT's as well

[hamster]

Originally Posted by Stone Free

It may be dead in the UK, but new models are still being produced in the USA. As they have had HiDef for far longer than us and yet still produce CRTs then the technology is hardly dead.

There are still plenty of people who would carry on buying CRT sets, if they produced the same HiDef models here in the U.K.

Yes, but all the USA models are made in China...

And I'm afraid that you are in a minority as you appear to prefer picture quality to a flat TV....not saying you a necessarily wrong, mind!

The cheap and chatty LCDs do look ghastly, but the latest stuff does look nice - and has no geometry or convergence problems, although the motion artefacts are still hard to stamp out.

CRT was a really kindly technology on bad material. LCD just seems to make a bad source look worse.

[holiver]

I shudder to think how much electricity a Hi-def 36" CRT TV would use too!

[Eiji]

Originally Posted by holiver

I shudder to think how much electricity a Hi-def 36" CRT TV would use too!

This beast is the 40" Sony 40XBR800. Your only allowed to have one if your house is built next to a nuclear power plant

[nortonl]

Modern units aren't as good as you might hope due to a bright lamp being permanently on. I think SED and maybe some others in the pipeline should be a big improvement.

Power consumption for the above CRT is 280W compared with 227W for the KDL-40XBR2 40" LCD model.