[SickStu]

Originally Posted by Lee Chambers

I've had this TV since Wednesday and I'm pretty much satisfied with the set.

The infamous geometery problems are evident - albeit not severely - at the top, left and right of the screen but the bottom seems perfect. There is also loss of focus at the left and right edges of the screen - again, not a severe problem but noticeable all the same. Intermittent buzzing is also a probelm too, but cannot be heard when the TV is at a reasonable volume and when you are not sitting close to it.

Nevertheless, the picture quality, on the whole, is excellent. Bright, sharp, colorful - superb.

So far, I've tried 3 games consoles through this TV (sadly not Xbox 360, as of yet) -Xbox, Gamecube & PS2.

Xbox looks great through this TV. The menus in some games are a bit iffy (Project Gotham 2 for example), whilst some are shocking (Championship Manager - one big menu of a game - is very unsightly, with the geometery problems having a field day). However, PG2 in-game, Halo 2, MotoGP and Unreal Championship 2 in particular look fantastic with sharp visuals and vibrant colour.

Now, to Gamecube. I only managed to play two games through this - Metroid Prime 2 and Smash Bros Melee - but both looked brilliant, no noticeable bending or blurring, just super-sharp, super-vivid visuals, especially running at 60Hz.

Next up was PS2. Oh dear. To be fair, I only tested Pro Evo 5 but I felt it showed enough. Playing on 50Hz, the menus seemed ok, no severe bending etc, but in-game was a different story. The far right side of the pic is severely bent and you can't help be distracted by it. There is also sickly motion blur when passing, shooting, etc. Not nice at all. Playing on 60Hz, menus look awful and the bent line at the far right of the pic remains. the only bonus is that the motion blur is all but eradicated. All in all, very disappointing.

I have contacted Currys and have organised for an engineer to come out next week and have a look at my set with a view to fixing the geometery problems, etc, so fingers crossed. With these problems sorted out, I would be very happy with the TV.

What's the SD TV picture like ? Is it as good as a normal top-middle range conventional CRT ?

[zAndy1]

stooahee, any news on the service menu tweaks/any other advice to get the best out of this set, maybe I'll give it a chance after the fiasco of trying to return it to a store today (basically they refused to refund me cos I'd used it).

Cheers
Andy

[chris1210]

Originally Posted by SickStu

What's the SD TV picture like ? Is it as good as a normal top-middle range conventional CRT ?

No.

It's not as good as my previous Panasonic CRT..... but still a lot better than any decent priced LCD ive witnessed.

I havent really tinkered with my set yet as its getting replaced tomorrow anyway, but its nothing like any other CRT set for getting the colour/contrast right, its a right pain by the looks of things!

Well I never got any answers to my Q's here and the local Curry's is too small to have one, I was told by staff only superstores, now I wont obv buy from there but was ok to see TV in the fleash as I aint sure If I prefer all black 419 or silver black 409 (freeview is not needed by me).

I looked at other 32" screens inc 32" visible screens on LCD sets and I will be viewing a smaller screen area than Im used to on my 10+ year old Mitsubishi 29" 4:3 screen, so I know I ideally need a 36" screen but aint sure if Samsung are going to do a slimfit 36" model, I may have to wait on new O-LED'S or SED's as I hate LCD and Plasma even my PC uses a nice 22" Mitsubishi CRT.

[chris1210]

Can anyone confirm if one of these DVI-HDMI cables from Ebuyer is okay?

http://www.ebuyer.com/UK/product/88446
http://www.ebuyer.com/UK/product/88442

I've read that they (supposedly) aren't HDCP compliant... whatever that means??

What is the difference between DVI 18p+1p, and DVI 24p+5p? Is it simply the pin placement on my Graphics Card?

Im hoping this will be a work around so that i can play HD material from my PC... as i can set my Graphics card to 720p/1080i (radeon 9600) and using HDMI, theres no reason why it shouldnt work, is there?

[zAndy1]

Just watched Dr Who and some stuff on Discovery HD and I'm beginning to really like this TV! Perhaps it's because I've had a plasma for such a long time but the blacks on this set are fantastic! Absolutely jet black with no other colours moving around in the background to spoil things. And Discovery HD, well what can I say, stunning PQ, really amazing. I don't really notice any geometry problems when watching programs, I'm gonna try and get it sorted out cos it's there on menus etc but it doesn't really detract from viewing stuff. So yeah, I feel a lot better about this TV tonight than I did earlier, it's a grower!

does any one know anything about wamee.com. there`s something on there that would fit in nicely with my new Samsung WS32Z409TQX

Originally Posted by zAndy1

Just watched Dr Who and some stuff on Discovery HD and I'm beginning to really like this TV! Perhaps it's because I've had a plasma for such a long time but the blacks on this set are fantastic! Absolutely jet black with no other colours moving around in the background to spoil things. And Discovery HD, well what can I say, stunning PQ, really amazing. I don't really notice any geometry problems when watching programs, I'm gonna try and get it sorted out cos it's there on menus etc but it doesn't really detract from viewing stuff. So yeah, I feel a lot better about this TV tonight than I did earlier, it's a grower!

I'm glad that your opinion is changing. I've been following your reviews closely. I got a call from Currys today, my TV should arrive in the morning. I'm now really looking forward to seeing the PQ, and will try not to be too judgemental at first. It sounds like given time this TV can really shine. I had thought about a plasma, so your comments on that are really helpful.

I'll let you know what I think once I've got it set-up and running. I need to get a DVI-HDMI cable as well for my HTPC. Then I'll be able to try some HD stuff.

Allen

Order here!

[onkeh]

Originally Posted by SickStu

What's the SD TV picture like ? Is it as good as a normal top-middle range conventional CRT ?

I would say it's on a par with my old Sony, but that's definitely a good thing!

[onkeh]

Also, my HDMI to DVI cable arrived yesterday and I hooked it up to this set and wow, absolutely stunning. Didn't need Powerstrip or anything like that, just worked straight off at a lovely 720p. I took some photos too I'll post them when I get home.

The picture seems to be too large for the screen so I'm losing an inch on every side, I want to tweak it but my Catalyst drivers give me the infamous "you do not have permission to access the Catalyst control panel" error which I just cannot get round. I tried Powerstrip but the "advanced timing options" button is greyed out so I can't actually adjust anything, I'm assuming I need to register it or something.

In case you're wondering, to get your PC audio in you just have to get a cable that changes 3.5mm stereo to into red-white composite and stick it in the component in, it comes through on the HDMI source as well so you don't get stuck with the reverse stereo problem

[vrb]

Hi!

My Samsung arrived yesterday. Watched the first half of the Iran-Mexico game on my 15 year old Sony Trinitron 25" screen and the second half on the Sammy. I've got to say that it was a disappointment. The bluring in the corners is really evident on the 'BBC' logo in the top left hand corner and watching the pillars in the background of the shot in the pundits area move around was really rubbish. On the whole, I'm very dissapointed with this set. It looks lovely turned off but switch it on and not so good. I'm going to give the service menu a tweak but I suppose I'm going to have to do the 200 hour wait before attempting it.

[Quexex]

Originally Posted by zAndy1

Just watched Dr Who and some stuff on Discovery HD and I'm beginning to really like this TV! Perhaps it's because I've had a plasma for such a long time but the blacks on this set are fantastic! Absolutely jet black with no other colours moving around in the background to spoil things. And Discovery HD, well what can I say, stunning PQ, really amazing. I don't really notice any geometry problems when watching programs, I'm gonna try and get it sorted out cos it's there on menus etc but it doesn't really detract from viewing stuff. So yeah, I feel a lot better about this TV tonight than I did earlier, it's a grower!

I had the same thing these TV's really need time to run in - more than normal. On the Geometry front pretty much everythnig can be tweaked out with time, I have near perfect geo on my 360 and the colour and brightness ballance finally make things look really nice.

I'm looking forward to silencing my PC so it can be a proper HTPC!

Cheers

Quexex

[Quexex]

Originally Posted by vrb

Hi!

My Samsung arrived yesterday. Watched the first half of the Iran-Mexico game on my 15 year old Sony Trinitron 25" screen and the second half on the Sammy. I've got to say that it was a disappointment. The bluring in the corners is really evident on the 'BBC' logo in the top left hand corner and watching the pillars in the background of the shot in the pundits area move around was really rubbish. On the whole, I'm very dissapointed with this set. It looks lovely turned off but switch it on and not so good. I'm going to give the service menu a tweak but I suppose I'm going to have to do the 200 hour wait before attempting it.

Give it time to run in!

I have just got mine out of the box and tuned in the DTV. Of course, after reading all the posts on this forum I immediately looked for problems. The corners are a bit fuzzy and it looks as if the pcture slopes a bit. But my 2 year-old is really impressed (as is the wife).

Now time to let it settle in. What is the best way to run it in, just let the kids watch their TV programs, or am I going to have to tell them to wait.

I guess a de-gause overnight is in order too ?

I have to say it looks amazing in our living room, much bigger than it looked in Currys. But since our old TV was a 21", it's bound to look big.

Now I'll be looking for help fine tuning it, and connecting my HTPC.

Cheers,

Allen

[fishfash]

Originally Posted by onkeh

Also, my HDMI to DVI cable arrived yesterday and I hooked it up to this set and wow, absolutely stunning. Didn't need Powerstrip or anything like that, just worked straight off at a lovely 720p. I took some photos too I'll post them when I get home.

The picture seems to be too large for the screen so I'm losing an inch on every side, I want to tweak it but my Catalyst drivers give me the infamous "you do not have permission to access the Catalyst control panel" error which I just cannot get round. I tried Powerstrip but the "advanced timing options" button is greyed out so I can't actually adjust anything, I'm assuming I need to register it or something.

In case you're wondering, to get your PC audio in you just have to get a cable that changes 3.5mm stereo to into red-white composite and stick it in the component in, it comes through on the HDMI source as well so you don't get stuck with the reverse stereo problem

Hi There,

That's good news. I'm gonna try this out as well. Could I ask please, where you got the cables from ? I've got an oldish card Geforce 3 TI200, but I believe this card supports the output to the 419D.

On a side note, I've had this TV arrive on Saturday and I think it is brilliant. I was replacing a Sony KV32CS70, which has now gone to the living room. SD picture is slightly better than the Sony, but with slightly worse geo as we all know now.

The only issue I had with this set was outputting PS2 games through component. I had about an inch black bendy border on the left / right hand side of the screen. Playing through scart was perfect, just a few bendy texts here and there with the scart, but nothing to worry about, (it made it worse because I was looking for it) !

I have been into the service menu to stretch the screen out for the 480P / 1080I component output and have hidden the bends. The games now run with greater detail from what I can tell, but not sure by how much.

The xbox set up had no probs via component and also ran through greater detail / textures, but again I really could'nt tell by how much.

As I don't have an HD device, I would like to output from my pc, to see how HD content looks.

In general it's a great TV, and I'll admit I was a bit worried with the negative reviews at first. But I can honestly say that I am happy with the 419D, if your happy to live with the odd bend here and there. Having said that the bends are not visible when watching SD, only when viewing text as far as I can tell.

For me it's the progressive scan features that impress me when playing PS2 games, and that was really one of the reasons to go for the model

Thanks,

[onkeh]

My cable came from HDStep.com

[leamspaceman]

I am SO surprised that no-one seems bothered about the reversed audio problem with this set over HDMI

Maybe it's just me?

Still...is there anyone who can confirm that their set has the audio swapped when using HDMI?

I really need to know if this is an inherant production fault on this TV as I'm in dialogue with Samsung regarding this. If you can test your set and post your findings I'd appreciate it alot.

Thanks if you can help.

[Quexex]

Originally Posted by leamspaceman

I am SO surprised that no-one seems bothered about the reversed audio problem with this set over HDMI

Maybe it's just me?

Still...is there anyone who can confirm that their set has the audio swapped when using HDMI?

I really need to know if this is an inherant production fault on this TV as I'm in dialogue with Samsung regarding this. If you can test your set and post your findings I'd appreciate it alot.

Thanks if you can help.

Not got any HDMi devices yet although to find out that it's fooked when I do would really **** me off - you runnnig a 409 or 419?

[leamspaceman]

Originally Posted by Quexex

Not got any HDMi devices yet although to find out that it's fooked when I do would really **** me off - you runnnig a 409 or 419?

I have a 419. As I've said, I've seen 4 of these TV's set up with HDMI (my own and 3 in different Curry's stores) and all four had the problem. There are also at least 2 other forum members who have the problem too. Good to know someone else would be bothered by this as much as I am.

Originally Posted by onkeh

My cable came from HDStep.com

Which one do you choose, and where did you get your audio cable ?

[leamspaceman]

Just been on the phone with Samsung head office.

Apparently, the problem with the swapped audio over HDMI has been communicated to engineers in Korea and have to wait for a 'fix' from them. What is troubling is that Samsung "cannot give a timescale" for this. This kinda thing really frustrates as you pay £500 for a TV set and then are just left 'hanging' with regard to issues such as this.

For me, £500 is a heck of alot of money that's taken me months to save.

Guess I'm just impatient.

[zAndy1]

Honestly though, how much of an issue is this really? I've watched a few programs now with the sound coming through the HDMI connection from my SkyHD box and not once have I thought 'oh the sound isn't right'. Granted it's a fault and should be fixed but in day to day use I really don't think it's not big a deal in the whole scheme of things.

[nstandley]

leamspaceman,

I sympathise with you. I have a 419D, but no HDMI source to test. I appreciate all your efforts in getting this resolved and into the user community.

Keep up the good work!

By the way, I am on my second 419D, the digi tuner popped on the first one. The replacement has geommetry issues that didn't exist on the first one. I await the Mastercare Engineers arrival!

Would like a refund, but not sure what else there is on the market with similar spec.

[finalfight]

Originally Posted by zAndy1

Honestly though, how much of an issue is this really? I've watched a few programs now with the sound coming through the HDMI connection from my SkyHD box and not once have I thought 'oh the sound isn't right'. Granted it's a fault and should be fixed but in day to day use I really don't think it's not big a deal in the whole scheme of things.

If this issue is fixable via a firmware upgrade I would consider this an embarassment for Samsung and an slight inconvience to the end user. However, if this problem is not so easily rectified then it could potentially become a major problem for Samsung and a huge inconvience for the customer as a possible recall might be in order. The potential for bad word of mouth and lost custom both now and in the future could be quite considerable given the sales success of these sets.

If worse comes to the worse I will be pushing for an LCD replacement.

[chris1210]

Well, got my replacement this afternoon (even tho the delivery guy didnt know he was collecting one too, what a joke).

And i cant believe it... this ones duff too! Im getting the same colour patch problem but on the bottom right corner this time!! It simply cant be anything in my house.... its sitting in the MIDDLE of my living room, away from everything!

Im staggered to be honest.... to get two off the back of each other with the same issue doesn't say much for the tube in these, cant see it lasting long. Cant be bothered with the hassle of another replacement... if it doesnt go away im gonna get a Samsung engineer out instead and quiz him.

Should i degausse it often, and how many hours should it need to settle?

[leamspaceman]

Originally Posted by nstandley

leamspaceman,

I sympathise with you. I have a 419D, but no HDMI source to test. I appreciate all your efforts in getting this resolved and into the user community.

Keep up the good work!

By the way, I am on my second 419D, the digi tuner popped on the first one. The replacement has geommetry issues that didn't exist on the first one. I await the Mastercare Engineers arrival!

Would like a refund, but not sure what else there is on the market with similar spec.

Thank you. I sympathise with you also.

Well...when it comes to these kind of things, I'm like a dog with a bone. I won't let it go.

I'm very surprised that anyone can question how much of an issue this really is? It's a £500 piece of kit. Everything...and I mean EVERYTHING should work correctly on this TV. I'm staggered that Samsung could have made such a mistake. To be honest, price doesn't come into it anyway. Anything I buy, no matter how expensive/inexpensive should function correctly...end of story. What would you do if you bought a TV and it had say...dead pixels? You would notice it FOREVER. This is the case with this HDMI audio problem. How could this have been overlooked?

I'm really happy with the set in every other respect. The geometry/blurring on my set improve by the day. The freeview side of the TV puts my Pace Twin to shame. But this HDMI problem is unacceptable. These multi-national companies sell you a product then treat you shabbily if there's a fault/problem. All they can say is "have a refund." This is basically saying "we don't care...here's your money back."

I've directed Samsung in the direction of this forum and the individual threads relating to this TV. You would imagine they would read them, take some action to put things right and keep their customers happy? With the web, these problems spread quickly and can put a big dent in a companies sales and reputation. You would think Samsung would bend over backwards to resolve this and maintain their credibility and reputation. Do you think that'll be the case? I doubt it.

And please...if you have the HDMI audio problem, or can test it...please let me know. Thanks.

[zAndy1]

Well I've just rang aftersales and spoke to a very reasonable bloke who said it was fine to return it for a refund so they're going to ring me to arrange collection. I'm not going to be happy with it, been watching it just now and sure HD stuff looks pretty good but there are still problems (geometry, some ghosting, blurry text, mesh effect on the right and left) and SD stuff looks pretty crap. Got 14 days to return it and I just know if I didn't take advantage of that I'd regret it so it's going back. Good luck to anyone that decides to persevere with it but for me it's not good enough.

[Quexex]

Just thought I'd add this I posted in the other thread.

"OK for the record and I'll probably post this in the other thread, on my 'run in' slightly tweaked (only a bit) 419 the difference between RGB Scart and 1080i component is huge even the edges in the out of focus areas.

I didn't really need to look for long either I just switched the two lead back an forth and 1080i delivers a better than LCD image in the center of the screen and I say a better than RGB scart in the out of focus area.

Now I am very picky and this TV has ben on the swing-o-meter for two weeks everyday yields a new fear and this time the SCART vs Component Debate (for me) ends 1080i on and xbox 360 looks amazing and the difference was imediately apparent.

Again the Sammy wins out anotehr close though battle this time with flying colours..."

[Quexex]

Originally Posted by zAndy1

Well I've just rang aftersales and spoke to a very reasonable bloke who said it was fine to return it for a refund so they're going to ring me to arrange collection. I'm not going to be happy with it, been watching it just now and sure HD stuff looks pretty good but there are still problems (geometry, some ghosting, blurry text, mesh effect on the right and left) and SD stuff looks pretty crap. Got 14 days to return it and I just know if I didn't take advantage of that I'd regret it so it's going back. Good luck to anyone that decides to persevere with it but for me it's not good enough.

I was on the edge again today when a fellow rllmuker felt the image on this (his) tv was no better than RGB scart on the 360 (see my post).

for me the HDMI issue that plagues you just doesn't bother me with my modest 5.1 setup (cheap like my TV )


And working as a product designer I can totally understand how some things get missed, although I'm more prepared (and understanding since I've been there) to ride the wave of new technology while accepting the shortfalls (my humax 9200 only just got chase play).

The Slim fit CRT is - Slim - obviously I couldn't have a 32inch CRT in my home they are too deep by a considerable margin.

So the downside slim fit has more geometry issues out of the box than a standard crt - although every wide screen TV I've looked at has some geometry issues they just not as bad as a 'first day' 419.

The out of focus mesh in the corners - well this is more pronounced than other 32inch wide TV's but the Tosh I looked at in currys had a similar elipse of highdensity mesh and corners of lower density. I'm guessing this is a limitation of electronguns - basically widescreen is a bit of an issue for them.

I could have had an LCD but I've looked at a good few from various leading brands - none can match the Sammy for SD performance especially for games.

Don't start me on LCD response time, subpixel artifacts poor colours - hmm 6bit panels really show the banding in colours. pretty much every recent LCD will be 6bit especially if it has any kind of response time (less than 20ms) I have a top of the range 19 dell at the time I bought it last year 8bit panels could only go at 20ms. Obviously things have improved but this will take a while to make it to large screen TV LCDs.

OK then we start on the black levels my blacks are not shiney they have no 'backlight' added to them which you can turn on and off to still find you don't get real black - then there is the the veiwing angle!

so then there's plasma find me a 32inch HD ready plasma for £500 - in fact find me one under a grand!

So why post this ... samsung fan boy? - Nope! Trying to justify my purchase? - not really I would have taken it back if it haddent improved!

That and everyone complains on forums it's where we go to find fixes to our problems it's only natural to get a slightly negative spin on a forum - So this is a rare positive post I'm sure that they'll be many flames

Cheers

Quexex

[leamspaceman]

Originally Posted by Quexex

I was on the edge again today when a fellow rllmuker felt the image on this (his) tv was no better than RGB scart on the 360 (see my post).

for me the HDMI issue that plagues you just doesn't bother me with my modest 5.1 setup (cheap like my TV )


And working as a product designer I can totally understand how some things get missed, although I'm more prepared (and understanding since I've been there) to ride the wave of new technology while accepting the shortfalls (my humax 9200 only just got chase play).

The Slim fit CRT is - Slim - obviously I couldn't have a 32inch CRT in my home they are too deep by a considerable margin.

So the downside slim fit has more geometry issues out of the box than a standard crt - although every wide screen TV I've looked at has some geometry issues they just not as bad as a 'first day' 419.

The out of focus mesh in the corners - well this is more pronounced than other 32inch wide TV's but the Tosh I looked at in currys had a similar elipse of highdensity mesh and corners of lower density. I'm guessing this is a limitation of electronguns - basically widescreen is a bit of an issue for them.

I could have had an LCD but I've looked at a good few from various leading brands - none can match the Sammy for SD performance especially for games.

Don't start me on LCD response time, subpixel artifacts poor colours - hmm 6bit panels really show the banding in colours. pretty much every recent LCD will be 6bit especially if it has any kind of response time (less than 20ms) I have a top of the range 19 dell at the time I bought it last year 8bit panels could only go at 20ms. Obviously things have improved but this will take a while to make it to large screen TV LCDs.

OK then we start on the black levels my blacks are not shiney they have no 'backlight' added to them which you can turn on and off to still find you don't get real black - then there is the the veiwing angle!

so then there's plasma find me a 32inch HD ready plasma for £500 - in fact find me one under a grand!

So why post this ... samsung fan boy? - Nope! Trying to justify my purchase? - not really I would have taken it back if it haddent improved!

That and everyone complains on forums it's where we go to find fixes to our problems it's only natural to get a slightly negative spin on a forum - So this is a rare positive post I'm sure that they'll be many flames

Cheers

Quexex

Hey...great to read this post. You're obviously really happy with your TV and that's great

If it wasn't for the HDMI audio issue I'd be more than happy too. Really good to read your positive post though.

Enjoy.