[Bryce Curdy]

What are the chances of HD broadcasts in the UK?

[mmace]

7-1

[pr1970]

75 million to 1 or was that the chances of winning the euro lottery

[czytt]

Depends which World Cup you mean.

This year? On Sky (on BBC)? Slender.

2010 - Good (on Sky).

2014 (after the analogue switch-off) - very good.

Not that I care - I'm not a fan.

Jerry

[andythescientis]

I'm getting my telewest HD box on tuesday and they TVDrive CS guy who seemed for a change to know his stuff said BBC HD would be available long before the world cup and the bbc have confirmed they will be showing it in HD, just like EPSN in the USA.

Sky HD is another story as they seem to be having major problems with box production and actually getting the thing to work.

So i'd say the chances in the UK on cable is very high, while on sky it's 50:50, and terrestrial is no chance unless you live in london.

[RecordablDVDfan]

Originally Posted by czytt

Not that I care - I'm not a fan.

Jerry

Not interested in Footie at all ?!

[Intenso]

Originally Posted by andythescientis

terrestrial is no chance unless you live in london.

Can anyone comment any further on this? Are there plans to launch a HD service via terestrial? I live in London.

Presuming a terestrial HD signal is possible will the onboard tuner on say a PV500 be able to transcode the signal.

Apologies if these are elemental questions but is all a bit new to me.

[dan1979]

Originally Posted by Intenso

Presuming a terestrial HD signal is possible will the onboard tuner on say a PV500 be able to transcode the signal.

Nope, all future HD stuff will require some form of new box

[andythescientis]

Originally Posted by Intenso

Can anyone comment any further on this? Are there plans to launch a HD service via terestrial? I live in London.

Presuming a terestrial HD signal is possible will the onboard tuner on say a PV500 be able to transcode the signal.

Apologies if these are elemental questions but is all a bit new to me.

If you search the bbc website they stated that they would be testing terrestrial HD this year but it would be limited to london only. There is no info at this time as to what this means, either closed trial or open.

[blakey1]

Originally Posted by andythescientis

If you search the bbc website they stated that they would be testing terrestrial HD this year but it would be limited to london only. There is no info at this time as to what this means, either closed trial or open.

The trials are going to be limited to about 400 people from what I have read. I assume that these will be employees or friends and families of people who work for the BBC. Its likely the trials will be limited to prime time shows and major sporting events from what I understand.

[dan1979]

Originally Posted by andythescientis

said BBC HD would be available long before the world cup and the bbc have confirmed they will be showing it in HD,

Surely if that were true then the BBC would be shouting it from the rooftops

[Starburst]

Originally Posted by dan1979

Surely if that were true then the BBC would be shouting it from the rooftops

There seems to be quite a bit of confusion in regards to exactly what the BBC will offer and where.
Will they show all 64 games, no since ITV have the rights as well.
Will they show England live, who knows.
Will it be on TW in mpeg2, Dsat on mpeg4 and DTT on god knows what, again we don't know for sure.

The BBC have no made it clear and until they do then I am not banking on any live games in HD.

[Stephen Neal]

I think the BBC plans are far from public, and may be far from final.

IF BBC Sport can provide the BBC One World Cup show(s) in HD (i.e. the same presentation and commentary) THEN I suspect the BBC will broadcast SOME games in HD - even if only via their existing HD stream to demo the system around TV Centre and other BBC buildings (plus the big screens - they've already done this for other sporting occasions)

IF Sky have an HD platform in time for the World Cup, then the BBC MAY broadcast via this as well. I'd expect it to be MPEG4 - but possibly DVB-S not DVB-S2.

I'd be more surprised if they had any HD via DTT in time - for the London test.

It is expected that the DTT HD trial will be a limited number of people - as the boxes will not be on-sale - though if it is like the BBC iMP trial that is currently running, they will probably aim for people who have suitable equipment and a cross-section of the public, rather than BBC employees. (A lot of BBC employees DIDN'T get onto the iMP trial)

Hopefully any DTT trial will be using existing DVB-T modulation and be FTA - so that PC owners with DVB-T cards can receive and decode the HD with their PCs?

What I think is pretty clear is :

The BBC will only be able to show the BBC matches - ITV are unlikely to let the Beeb screen their games in HD.
Sky are unlikely to be able to show the BBC or ITV matches ON THEIR SKY SPORTS CHANNELS. This doesn't mean that the BBC (and even ITV) won't broadcast HD that Sky HD receivers can receive and watch.

I would also be surprised if the BBC just pumped up the host broadcaster HD feed for widespread consumption (though they might for closed circuit viewing in BBC locations) - they would either do the whole BBC One show in HD (with some SD upconversion if need be - for, say, on-site reporters or studios) or not broadcast it to the general public in HD.

[ajb]

So what do those of us desperate to see the World Cup in HD do? There is German TV but presume this is encrypted. I seem to remember the Euro 2004 game between England and France being on TF1 France in HD but again, is this likely to be encrypted?

Just don't know what to do for the best!

[Starburst]

Originally Posted by ajb

So what do those of us desperate to see the World Cup in HD do? There is German TV but presume this is encrypted. I seem to remember the Euro 2004 game between England and France being on TF1 France in HD but again, is this likely to be encrypted?

Just don't know what to do for the best!

Wait

If the BBC broadcast some WC on TW then you'll have to subscribe to them and that can be done within a week of the competition.
If they only offer some coverage on a DTT trial then in all likely hood you will be screwed (unless you live in London) and it will probably be a closed trial as well. FTA Dsat coverage would I suspect be on 2D and any HD FTA mpeg4/dvbs-2 box should do just fine, no need for SKY kit.

Until they actually confirm any of this themselves it would perhaps be foolish to invest in anything unless you had other reasons for buying the kit

wow - so much time wasted on so much idle speculation. mpeg 4 this, DTT that.

Let's make it real simple. The BBC has NO HD transmission facility (beyond small scale technical testing which will take several years). ITV has NO HD transmission facilities.

Sky does not have the rights to the world cup, as it is a listed event, although it MAY have HD transmission up and running by June.

When Sky HD IS up and running, it WILL NOT have any BBC HD channels at launch, nor have any been mooted for the foreseeable future.

Ergo - THE WORLD CUP WILL NOT BE SHOWN IN HD IN THE UK.

It sucks, clearly, but what is it you believe will change in the next few months to the current situation? The quickest channel announcements and rollout in broadcasting history?

[Bernard Barnett]

It may not be "shown" but that's not to say it can't be captured. A subscription to the German satellite broadcaster Premiere plus the appropriate STB will be an expensive but feasible solution for anyone determined enough.

[Hellicopter]

Beneditor-Why are you so absolute?
BBC have indicated(One of the BBC controllers actually said it on live radio)
that they would show as a test the World Cup in HD.
They have already purchased extra transponders and clearly have the uplink ability.
Whether any of us will have the equipment to watch it, is another matter.

Alan

[Stephen Neal]

Originally Posted by Hellicopter

Beneditor-Why are you so absolute?
BBC have indicated(One of the BBC controllers actually said it on live radio)
that they would show as a test the World Cup in HD.
They have already purchased extra transponders and clearly have the uplink ability.
Whether any of us will have the equipment to watch it, is another matter.

Alan

I think the quote was that they wanted/would like to show the World Cup in HD if possible, as it would be a great shop-window for HD. However I don't think they've made a cast-iron commitment to do so yet.

Having the transponders and uplink isn't the only requirement (And the uplink is no longer the domain of the BBC - they sold that bit - BBC Technology - to Siemens a while back, and the BBC One transmission operation - once BBC Broadcast - is also no longer part of the BBC - that is now Red Bee)

They also have to organise the BBC Sport operation (i.e. the on-site studios, BBC replays, back-haul to London etc.) to operate in HD - otherwise they'd be left just broadcasting the host feed - which I doubt they'd do as anything other than a special demo, not part of a BBC One HD service...

I'd still be reasonably hopeful that they'll do something HD for the WC 2006 - and hopefully more than a closed demo.

[andythescientis]

I doubt TW would be saying "High definition broadcast channels – Various broadcasters are planning to launch high definition channels in 2006, including the BBC which is planning to show the World Cup in high definition."

Unless they had some firm indication that it was true. This statement from the TVDrive website is also repeated in printed form in the latest leaflet I received from TW. I'd think the BBC would have had something to say about it if they TW had been making things up. Also bare in mind the BBC and TW currently have a strong relationship as far as new technology goes, all TW current HD content is from the BBC, and Most of TW teleport content is also from the BBC, so i suspect they know what each others plans are.

All match footage be it BBC or ITV is filmed by a third party appointed by Fifa. This footage is all being filmed in HD as for example ESPN has already stated in the states all it's coverage will be HD. Therefore footage is not an issue.

Personally I believe the BBC will have BBC1 HD up and running in some form on both cable and sat by the time the worldcup comes round. There is not a cat in hells chance of any ITV games being in HD though, as ITV traditionally are always the last channel to spend any cash on new technology.

[Stephen Neal]

Originally Posted by andythescientis

All match footage be it BBC or ITV is filmed by a third party appointed by Fifa. This footage is all being filmed in HD as for example ESPN has already stated in the states all it's coverage will be HD. Therefore footage is not an issue.

Having the host broadcast feed in HD is only one step in the path though - and actually the least important in many ways! It is the path it takes to our screens that is specific to ITV and the BBC that is the difficult bit. The BBC probably have more in-house HD experience than ITV (gone are the days when Thames and the ITA had HD gear...) - but ITV could, if they had to, write a big cheque (though if there is no commercial reason to - why would they?)

[dgc]

I cannot see either of them wanting to spend the money.

They could have supplied euro 04 in widescreen but chose to stick with 4:3 - presumably because it was easier and cheaper.

[Stephen Neal]

Originally Posted by dgc

I cannot see either of them wanting to spend the money.

They could have supplied euro 04 in widescreen but chose to stick with 4:3 - presumably because it was easier and cheaper.

No - because the 16:9 feed (HD and SD) was only available on-site or via satellite, and not at the IBC (International Broadcast Centre, where most large broadcasters were based)

If the Beeb had tried to do it in 16:9 it would have been a less robust service.

(I know other European broadcasters picked up the 16:9 feeds - but they didn't have on-site presentation)

[Hellicopter]

I think the BBC guy probably went too far but Ii did hear it myself (pretty sure it was in a Simon Mayo discussion on HD ) and he was absolute in his statement.

Alan

The BBC could upscale the studio feeds for the World Cup as a cost-cutting measure. Does anyone really care about seeing Alan Hansen's eyebrows in HD?

Originally Posted by Stephen Neal

Hopefully any DTT trial will be using existing DVB-T modulation and be FTA - so that PC owners with DVB-T cards can receive and decode the HD with their PCs?

It sounds like this will be the case.

See here. Nebula have already added support for the trial broadcasts into their DigiTV software (v3.5.20) so any one with a Nebula receiver in London will be able to receive these broadcasts.

[Starburst]

Originally Posted by greetings

It sounds like this will be the case.

See here. Nebula have already added support for the trial broadcasts into their DigiTV software (v3.5.20) so any one with a Nebula receiver in London will be able to receive these broadcasts.

Reception is one thing, having the PC processing power to decode full resolution H.264 smoothly in realtime is a different matter
Even a top of the line PC will have issues with H.264, the Apple trailers really make it look too easy but if you already have the PC tuner then you won't be out of pocket and lose nothing if the trial is closed or the rest of the PC isn't upto the job.

[RecordablDVDfan]

Surely mpeg4 DTT boxes are just around the corner ? Perhaps Australia are testing mpeg4 on their DTT now...

[Starburst]

Originally Posted by RecordablDVDfan

Surely mpeg4 DTT boxes are just around the corner ? Perhaps Australia are testing mpeg4 on their DTT now...

Indeed they are but they are a long way from being sold for £50 at the local supermarket
A DTT receiver I suspect would cost the same as a Dsat receiver, somewhere around £250 and that is why the French I believe are sticking to mpeg2 for DTT and taking advantage of the dirt cheap existing STB's and only relying on mpeg4 for their PAY services which will appear at a later date.

I suspect that model will appear on our DTT in the next few years as mpeg4 based boxes become mass market items and fall to the same price as current hardware especially if for instance a new TUTV type service appears on DTT before analogue switch off.

[Stephen Neal]

Originally Posted by Quickbeam

The BBC could upscale the studio feeds for the World Cup as a cost-cutting measure. Does anyone really care about seeing Alan Hansen's eyebrows in HD?

Yep - but that still requires HD OB gear from the BBC to mix between the HD match feed and SD upconverted or HD studio cameras - as well as all the resilience you'd expect for a major event. (Though I guess the backup circuits - and possibly uplink gear - could be SD)