[rioeire]

Just curious,

I was previously an owner of a Philips Full HD LCD TV , 47 -PFL9664, great TV , on that telly I wasn´t able to tell the difference between Full HD contens and HD ready contents, not even at 3 feets from the screen.
Now I own a 50 PLGPQ6000, HD ready Plasma, very happy with it

After reading thousands of threads there is a general agreement that the best displays for SD viewing are the HD ready Plasmas but considering the following facts, dont you think that the FULL HD stuff is overrater or overhypped?

My personal experience facts

1.Most of freeview channel still broadcast 576i and 4:3 formats

2.Most of HD channels around the world broadcast around 1080i or 720p resolutions

3.Most modern console games are 720p

4.most people watch their tellys around 3 meters distances ( 9-10feet) and play their console games or wacht HD content at the same distance

5 Most people own mostly DVDs

6 you get to see the diference between Full HD and HD ready only if you get very close to the TV and only when you are wachting Full HD content (i e Blu Ryas)


Considering this chart

lets put it this way, comparing 2 set ups with the same quality and the same claibration under the same light conditions, one full HD and the other HD ready at normal viewing distance (9 feet)

I will try to answer my own questions

1.Plasmas HD ready are the ones that handle better the SD TV , therefore to wacht regular standar definition TV HD ready is enough since the resolution of SD TV is 720x576, less defects will appear on the screen on a 1280x720p screen than in a 1920x1080p screen

2.If most of today HD sources come in 1080i or 720p there is no need for a Full HD TV , HD ready will be suficcient for years to come

3.If most games output 720p, do I need a FULL HD TV right now?

4.A regular person has a 42" tv at 10 feets distance , following the precious chart, he wont be able to see the difference between FULL HD and HD ready

5 DVDs through scart should look better on a HD ready TV since there is less processing or scaling involved than in a Full HD TV and the same case will apply if you connect it through HDMI

6 If you are playing a Blu ray and you sit 9 feet away from your 42 TV , what real impact will a Full HD have over an HD ready TV unless you sit very close and most people dont mover their couchs

so my own conclusions, what are the benefits of a full HD set over a HD ready (same quality, calibration and conditions of course) in both screens

why most of LCD manufacters have stopped producing LCD HD ready panels?

your thoughts?

PS sorry for my english

[andy1249]

For me , no its not over-rated , heres why ,

1280 x 720p screens are extremely rare , usually Plasma HD ready sets are either 1366 x 768 or 1024 x 768.
That means that everything applied to the screen is scaled , no matter what you are playing. You are totally at the mercy of the quality of the scaler regardless.

The scaling factor used on both the above is uneven , leading to artifacts , especially in the case of 1024 x 768 which I have never seen done well except on 1 pioneer model which I couldnt afford and is no longer made now in any case.

With 1080p you have an even scaling , most sets can handle this pretty well , and of course it actually matches one of the HD formats so Blu ray and certain file types can be watched without scaling.

Its also hugely beneficial for hooking up a HTPC too , there is more screen real estate and there are no problems getting a graphics card to sync up , especially if the screen has 1:1 pixel mapping , thats something you cannot say for HD ready screens , especially the 1024 x 768 type.

That viewing chart I have seen before , and in most real world situations it does not work , the conclusions drawn from that chart only apply in the case of perfect transmissions , and unless your watching blu ray there is no such thing.

My first HD set was a 32 inch 1366 x 768 panasonic lcd from 2006 , and according to that chart HD was pointless on such a set as I shouldnt have been able to notice , the fact is that broadcast bitrates vary to a massive extent , with hardly any stations giving a perfect broadcast , the result , HD material from Sky looked stunning on it. So the chart is meaningless.

Given the variety of source material available today , it definitely pays to have a set with a native resolution that matches at least one format , and that the others can easily scale too ,so no matter what size flat screen you were buying today , I would always recommend a 1080p set over anything else , if magnified SD upsets you , you should go smaller with a full HD set , that to me is always better than a huge HD ready set.

PS
Blu ray sales are growing and growing fast , much faster than DVD did on its introduction , they are also quite cheap if you are willing to buy online.

An increasing amount of PS3 games are coming along in 1080p , that is likely to increase over time.

Scaling DVD's to 1080p gives a much more pleasing result than to any HD ready resolution for the reasons outlined above. Double scaling , thats SD to 1080p and then back down to either of the HD ready resolutions , is horrible.

[rioeire]

great answer,thank you

now you are saying that HD ready sets have an uneven scaling since most of 42 inches TV are 1024x768 which I agree

then howcome HD ready TVs usally handle better(specially if they are Plasmas) the SD broadcasting, I have seen more artifacts during a football show in my FULL HD TV than in my HD ready TV and the same applies on my friends plasma (G10 Full HD)

I didnt notice any differences in my LCD FULL HD Screen upscaling DVDs through my pioneer DV400 DVD using hDMi at 576p or 720p or 1080p and I dont See any differences in my 50 Plasma TV either

I didnt notice any differences outputting the ps3 at 720p or 1080p in Blu rays on my Full HD LCD tv and on my Plasma HD ready TV

[ertoil]

Thanks for the post......the answer is a resounding YES
a 720p 32-37 or 42" plasma is enough for a complete satisfactory cinema
experience! they even accept 1080 progressive quality

For example LG plasmas are "SCALED 1080P TVs"
they are truly Full HD tv's with a 1024X720 screen
In fact the scaled compression on screen makes
the blacks and image density better !

The logo at right certifies it

[Nielo TM]

Originally Posted by andy1249

Scaling DVD's to 1080p gives a much more pleasing result than to any HD ready resolution for the reasons outlined above. Double scaling , thats SD to 1080p and then back down to either of the HD ready resolutions , is horrible.

In addition, modern 1080p panels have supeioer blacks and it required for 3D.

[Nielo TM]

Originally Posted by rioeire

great answer,thank you

now you are saying that HD ready sets have an uneven scaling since most of 42 inches TV are 1024x768 which I agree

then howcome HD ready TVs usally handle better(specially if they are Plasmas) the SD broadcasting, I have seen more artifacts during a football show in my FULL HD TV than in my HD ready TV and the same applies on my friends plasma (G10 Full HD)

I didnt notice any differences in my LCD FULL HD Screen upscaling DVDs through my pioneer DV400 DVD using hDMi at 576p or 720p or 1080p and I dont See any differences in my 50 Plasma TV either

I didnt notice any differences outputting the ps3 at 720p or 1080p in Blu rays on my Full HD LCD tv and on my Plasma HD ready TV

It has to due with horizontal scaling

SD wide-screen contents are 4:3 native (akin to 1024 x 768) and stretched horizontally to maintain maximum vertical resolution.

The majority of 720p PDP utilize 1024 x 768, which utilize horizontal pixels to obtain true 16:9 AR

[ratef42]

Full HD is overrated I have a 720p TV and it looks fine. I never use HD content unless im playing xbox on it as the tv and sky is all standard!!!

[Gordon @ Convergent AV]

Originally Posted by rioeire

2.Most of HD channels around the world broadcast around 1080i or 720p resolutions

1080i can be used as a carrier for 1080P content...ie films and progressively recorded tv shows. 1080P resolution displays with decent film cadence detection would be able to reconstitute the original 1080P progressive frame.

[Nielo TM]

Providing Sky doesn't apply any filters


PS: The difference between 1080p60 and 1080i60 (50 in our case) is negligible providing advanced de-interlacing algorithms are utilized (e.g. vector adaptive)


PPS: Gordon, do you think Sky would release a Vista/Win 7 compatible sat-tuner for HTPCs? If they did, we would've have to be at the mercy of their STBs.

[rioeire]

I still believe Full HD is overrated for todays TV uses and 90% of population doesn´t need it

convince me that I am wrong

[Curly99]

Originally Posted by rioeire

I still believe Full HD is overrated for todays TV uses and 90% of population doesn´t need it

convince me that I am wrong

In your opinion which you are entitled to but that does not make you right, if someone wants to buy a full HD 1080p TV and they are happy with it what's the problem?, if your happy stick with your HD ready TV and let others enjoy their TVs instead of trying to tell them they have made a bad choice.

[Gordon @ Convergent AV]

Originally Posted by rioeire

I still believe Full HD is overrated for todays TV uses and 90% of population doesn´t need it

convince me that I am wrong

I do not require to convince you you are wrong....

By the way..I watch an ED plasma that is around 5-6yrs old.....but tomorrow my new 1080p one turns up

[rioeire]

Originally Posted by Curly99

In your opinion which you are entitled to but that does not make you right, if someone wants to buy a full HD 1080p TV and they are happy with it what's the problem?, if your happy stick with your HD ready TV and let others enjoy their TVs instead of trying to tell them they have made a bad choice.

I am not saying "I am right" I am saying that I think for 2010 there is no need for the vast majority of people to buy 1080p sets when 720p sets will give you almost the same quality in HD and much better quality with SD content

There is no problem if people want to buy 1080p TV but I think TV makers should give the chance to the people to choose HD ready models if what they want to do with theirs TVs is watching SD content
LCD makers are not giving you that chance

I am still convinced that Pioneer HD ready Plasmas are still better TV than todays Plasmas and LCD FULL HD sets

Originally Posted by Gordon @ Convergent AV

I do not require to convince you you are wrong....

By the way..I watch an ED plasma that is around 5-6yrs old.....but tomorrow my new 1080p one turns up

Well you dont have to convinced me, IMO I think you are wrong too.





btw, thanks for the answers

[Jon Weaver]

My view on this is that for normal viewing its impossible to see the difference between 720 and 1080!

I am sure that this will spark a debate, but I can only go on what I was able to test in my own home, by comparing 2 Panasonic 50" screens (G10 and X10).

If you are interested, you can read about it here:

http://www.avforums.com/forums/plasm...n-g10-x10.html

What I found was that for a moving image, it was impossible to see a difference.. I tried PS3 games (selecting those which run in 1080P), Sky and Blueray..

I then paused given frames and scrutinized them and could see an only slight improvement of 1080 over 720, but it was very slight.. WHen looking at individual frames, I chose those which had background detail (such as small writing) and in truth, in my tests the difference was tiny.

When the image was moving, I can honestly say that it was impossible to tell the difference...

I also did this test at a viewing distance of between 10ft and 3" and again, could not see a significant difference.

The only think which did show a difference was a calibration HD Resolution test card (AVSHD).. With this, it was clear that the 1080 screen gave more resolution.. But it does.. There is no doubting that, so a 'test card' would show it.. But as I said, under 'normal' viewing conditions I could not tell the difference.

So in the end I stuck with an HD-Ready (768) screen and saved £300 and I will live with this until another major revolution comes along (i.e 3D).

Personally, I couldn't be happier with my choice.... I just wish that others were willing to turn their back on 1080 and snap up the X10 which gives a remarkable picture costs less than £600 for the 50" model.

Jon

[Gordon @ Convergent AV]

Originally Posted by rioeire

Well you dont have to convinced me, IMO I think you are wrong too.

I have not stated my opinion as to the veracity of your comments so unless you are a mind reader I fail to see how you can know my opinion.

[rioeire]

Originally Posted by Gordon @ Convergent AV

I have not stated my opinion as to the veracity of your comments so unless you are a mind reader I fail to see how you can know my opinion.

well then I got confused because you said:

Originally Posted by Gordon @ Convergent AV

I do not require to convince you you are wrong....

If you say that I am wrong that means your opinion is that 1080p is not overrated (or taht is what I am uderstanding in that statement) ...sorry if I am not uderstanding

[SILVERBACK]

you have a "HD ready" tag as your avatar,your posting about 1080 being overated and by your posting stance your not looking to be "convinced" you have already made your mind up.you have already set your stall out as a 1080 naysayer,you have been offered detailed explanations and you still need convincing ?

[rioeire]

Originally Posted by SILVERBACK

you have a "HD ready" tag as your avatar,your posting about 1080 being overated and by your posting stance your not looking to be "convinced" you have already made your mind up.you have already set your stall out as a 1080 naysayer,you have been offered detailed explanations and you still need convincing ?

you are right in your arguments, just wanted to know what people thought about the Full HD and if it is or not overrated i, I think it is , and I have posted my reasons
some members have posted theirs
no harm on sharing my thoughts I hope
it may help other people before buying their TVs

and english is not my native mothertongue, sorry

[Gordon @ Convergent AV]

Originally Posted by rioeire

well then I got confused because you said:



If you say that I am wrong that means your opinion is that 1080p is not overrated (or taht is what I am uderstanding in that statement) ...sorry if I am not uderstanding

I think you do not understand English enough. I am saying that I do not require to validate your assertion whether you want me to or not. My quote above doesn't imply my belief one way or the other...

P.S For a non English speaking person your language skills are very good though...certainly much better than my non Enlish language skills!

[ricki]

Originally Posted by rioeire

Just wanted to know what people thought about the Full HD and if it is or not overrated

I am with you on this bro. highly highly super-overrated. At least they should work on the contents we supposed to watch rather than kept chucking models after models out without any justification beside - It is full HD!

Same accusation goes Mod Comment: removed SKY. Going 3D when HD looks like watching cheap youtube flash video.

[rioeire]

Originally Posted by Gordon @ Convergent AV

I think you do not understand English enough. I am saying that I do not require to validate your assertion whether you want me to or not. My quote above doesn't imply my belief one way or the other...

All right
I would really much apreciate if you can share your opinion with us in this matter , if you wifh to of course

cheers

[ertoil]

There is no Full HD tv in the market right now..no matter Sony..Panasonic..B&O...
....Loewe...that could match the PQ of the Pioneer 428X HD Ready...and this is not
an opinion ! is a fact ! and all of you know this..so...

[Gordon @ Convergent AV]

Originally Posted by ertoil

There is no Full HD tv in the market right now..no matter Sony..Panasonic..B&O...
....Loewe...that could match the PQ of the Pioneer 428X HD Ready...and this is not
an opinion ! is a fact ! and all of you know this..so...

OK you are obviously a troll....if you really think the 428 is the pinnacle of plasma performance

[Curly99]

Originally Posted by ertoil

There is no Full HD tv in the market right now..no matter Sony..Panasonic..B&O...
....Loewe...that could match the PQ of the Pioneer 428X HD Ready...and this is not
an opinion ! is a fact ! and all of you know this..so...

it's not a fact, it is your opinion...anyway this is off topic, lets keep to the topic please guys

[Tolq]

I think HD in general is overrated - I have a projector and even normal DVDs look good on my 100" screen... HD (lossless) audio tracks for movies, on the other hand... wow

[Nielo TM]

Those who agree with the OP need to go to Specsavers LOL

[Boostrail]

Originally Posted by Nielo TM

Those who agree with the OP need to go to Specsavers LOL

Hi Nielo!

Yeah I agree! (or they need to buy a decent brand of TV)

[rioeire]

Originally Posted by Nielo TM

Those who agree with the OP need to go to Specsavers LOL

dont know why is so "bad" to think that full hd is overrated
if all tv signals and videos where 1080p i would agree but in the meantime iMO HD ready is more than enough
but anyway the point is also,why TV manufacturers dont give the chance to buy HD ready LCD like in 2008, at least up to 40 inches

my point is that most people won´t get the benefits in their new panels of the 1080p technology but they will suffer the problems of high resolution TVs upscaling SD signals

[ricki]

Originally Posted by rioeire

dont know why is so "bad" to think that full hd is overrated
if all tv signals and videos where 1080p i would agree but in the meantime iMO HD ready is more than enough
but anyway the point is also,why TV manufacturers dont give the chance to buy HD ready LCD like in 2008, at least up to 40 inches

my point is that most people won´t get the benefits in their new panels of the 1080p technology but they will suffer the problems of high resolution TVs upscaling SD signals

second that again. Those guys posting adverts for speksaver should swap their overated full HD tv for glasses speksaver themselves. tell me dudes what have you watch on your full hd tv without you wondering why you spend all that money for. I meant over the air, cable, satellite and virtual reality game consoles.


pls tell me common

[LX200GPS]

I don’t know the answer to this question as I have not seen a Full HD picture in my home. However, if it was conclusively proved by someone that it was overrated then I would not be surprised. You could have a whole new thread in discussing the meaning of “overrated” in this case.
It wasn’t too long ago that component video was considered the best possible way to connect to a display. After that it was an RGB enabled Scart cable. Then HDMI made an appearance and eventually HDMI sockets began showing up on the rear of DVD players. I remember I bought a Demon DVD player around that time and connected to a HD Ready 42” set. I had my old DVD player connected to the same display using a Scart. Could I tell the difference? No, as much as I wanted to I just couldn’t honestly say the HDMI player produced a better picture. The lovely new Demon went back and I made do with my old player.
The difference between DVD and VHS was very plain for all to see. You can even change “VHS” for “Laserdisc” and it was still some leap. There are those who say the difference in PQ between DVD and Blu ray is not all that great, even less between Superbit and Blu ray. From now on the difference in PQ, regardless of what we are discussing, will be much smaller and therefore harder to see.
Don’t forget the industry is geared up to making you feel inadequate with what you already have. They want you to go out and get the “next best thing”. My golden rule is this; if you cannot hear or see the difference then don’t spend your money. Don’t listen to those who swear you are blind or deaf, if it works for them then that’s fine.
Have fun