[scooby do]

Getting fed up with the discolourisation on my TV. Going to go down the SOGA act to try and get some compensation/repair for the TV. The TV was purchased in October 2006 through Amazon EU s.a.r.L. (whatever that means). And has developed a green/yelow hue towards the top of the picture. Who has had there set replaced/repaired for blob. Note I do not have an extended warranty as I should be protected under the SOGA. I am trying to collect as much evidence as I can before sending over to Amazon a claim under SOGA. Obviously there is a lot of evidence from over the pond and a statement from Sony saying the sets are covered until 2010 but I believe Sony UK are not following the same guidelines. Please post what you know and any advice. I believe the same optical block is in the US sets as to ours so cannot see why we are not covered.

Any help will be very much appreciated

cheers

[AndyCob]

Hi Scooby,

I remember you posting in my old thread http://www.avforums.com/forums/rear-...lour-blob.html so most of my experience is in there somewhere.

But to summarise:

Official response I got from Sony UK was 'This issue is not affecting UK models' no surprise there as any other answer would basicly amount to saying please sue us.

This link makes for interesting reading for what happened in the US:
Sony Optical Block and Related Problems (Sony LCD Rear Projection TV Problems)

I actually consulted a lawyer via Which legal advice and was told I had a case under the SOGA for failure to meet reasonable durability.

I never actually had to go as far as actually making the calim, I was told by the salesman when purchasing that I was getting a 3 year warranty but when I tried to calim was told I didn't. I had actually had the salesman detail the warranty on the receipt but this was intially not accepted. I have no idea if the salesman added something he should not have to get the sale or if there was simply an oversight somewhere in filing the necessary paperwork. Anyway I pursued things under the SOGA as per Which's advice such as the from letters which they recomend sending to the MD of the company you purchased from and the manager of the specific store. I guess you would send one letter addressed to the CEO at amazon's UK head office and perhaps another to customer services in this case. The one thing I added was it would not be necessary for me to pursue things via SOGA if they honoured the warranty. A week after I sent the letters it was agreed I did have a warranty and my problems were solved.

Hope that's of some help, will be interested to hear how you get on.

[majnu]

In the 3 years I have had my set I have never had any problems like what was posted a few years back by members. I remember reading the problems Andy had too. I have a couple of years left on my warranty and all I ever needed was a replacement bulb which was supplied and fitted free of charge.

Best TV I have ever had.

[scooby do]

Well the fun has started, contacted Amazon who tell me that it is out of warranty and that I need to contact Sony. I explained that the contract of sale is with Amazon but they did not understand this. Sony would not give me any contact details over the phone of either the head of customer services or MD of Sony UK. Also Amazon have sent me an email extract below

"All electronic items purchased from Amazon.co.uk come with a one year warranty from the manufacturer, unless otherwise stated.

You have, until recently, used the product for a period of time which exceeds the manufacturer's warranty period without reporting any fault with it. Based on the length of use and the nature of the product, we have concluded that the issue with the product does not arise from a defect in the product which existed at the time of purchase, and consequently we cannot assist you further."

Obviously they are not aware of Uk law and SOGA so it seems like I will be having some fun with this.

[AndyCob]

Yeah it seems virtually standard for the retailer to at least attempt the 'it's the manufacturer you need to deal with line'. I got nowhere at all until I sent the letter to the MD/CEO of the retail company, of course it wont be dealt with by the MD personally but it will get openned and dealt with and by someone who knows the law vs. the first tier customer support people who don't. Not a dig at them it is just not something they are generally going to be trained to deal with. Forget about Sony the SOGA as you know concerns the contract with the reatiler. I cannot recommend enough go onto the which website download the form letters for this situation and get them posted off. Phoning the standard customer services people will just be bashing your head against a brick wall.

That said from their response they have some knowledge of the SOGA because one issue that can arise is that the burden of proof for claiming a product is faulty lies with the owner and they can argue as that staement implies you've had it for longer than 12 months without issue so it wasn't faulty at time of sale. The reverse argument that goods should display reasonable durability and last a suitable lenght of time is slightly different but no less true according to the legal advice I took. Again it's covered somewhat in the form letters.

[scooby do]

Yes concur fully with what you say. Have only gone down the Sony route as well as the Amazon just in case Sony wish to do a good will gesture (you never know). Amazon are being very akward with not supplying the MD / customer services manager but I will get it. Failing that then I will just fast track a small claims and see if they bother to attend as I am sure the Judge will find favour. Tv is coming up for 3 years old and has clearly to been proven as durable and could possibly have an inherent design fault (will try to find out if it is the same OB in US/Candian sets as those in the UK).

Thanks alot for your input so far.

[AndyCob]

Don't worry about getting a name or anything, I certainly couldn't. Just find the UK HQ office address, (they have to have one registered) and send the letter to it addressed for attention of the Managing Director, sending it recorded delivery won't hurt. You could send another addressed to head of customer servcices, afterall it will never be the CEO/MD who deals with it.

I tried the Sony route as well, official response of their customer service phone line was this problem doesn't exist and there is no mention of it anywhere on the internet (the fact Sony were sued over this issue in the US was even on the Sony USA website at the time) and the email response was the issue is not affecting UK models so forget Sony. I'm fairly certain companies in this situation will never offer good will gestures/fixes because as soon as they do it establishes a precedent, if you fixed it for this person why not me etc. basicly if they admit anything or even fix one they might as well put their hands up and do them all so it won't happen.

[Dark Eyes]

Hello 'Scooby Do'

I am sorry to hear that your TV has now succumbed to the dreaded 'blob', and I wish you every success in getting a satisfactory resolution (no pun intended).

My own 55A2000 developed a green blob early on that I have been 'managing' by adjusting the green & red values in the white balance settings to reduce it right down, and you can only really see it in the greys if you look hard enough.
(see my post here KDS-55A2000 finally developing colour blob?)

It is now getting more noticeable, and I think I will bite the bullet with John Lewis in the new year. My big worry is that they will write it off, and I still haven't seen a 50" plasma or LCD that can equal the KDS with SD sources; for the £1K I paid for it.

However, there seem to have been enough people who have had theirs replaced by JL's now, for me to be hopeful.

Good luck,

Philip

[scooby do]

Cheers all helps for proof of an inherent design problem. Amazon are being total idiots so far still waiting to get the contact details via there email support. Have spoken to two CS operators (based in the philipines) who are not aware of my rights.

[AndyCob]

Scooby,

No need to wait just send the letter here addressed for attention of Managing Director. From a quick google

Amazon UK Head Office Address

Patriot Court, 1-9, The Grove
Slough
Berkshire
SL1 1QP

Tel. 020 86369200
Fax. 020 86369400

From Amazon phone number email fax contact details at Corporate Contact Info

The Managing Director's name and email is on there as well assuming it's correct.

[scooby do]

Cheers very much for the info, they are really playing up and yes the details of the MD are correct. It is laughable the responces I am getting back from them. This is going to go all the way and is going to be fun.

Sony have also got back with the default not a problem on Uk sets. Strange that so many people have been afflicted by the problem. Obviously those who had an extended warranty have had it sorted easily those who adopted early like myself who did not purchace through John Lewis are relying on SOGA which is where all you guys come in to prove it is a problem in the UK.

[AndyCob]

I'm afraid the fob off always seems to be S.O.P in these situations. Afterall it costs them nothing to just say it's not our problem and hope you go away. Forget the phone or email stuff you will get nowhere.

To be fair this sort of stonewall tatic is understandable from the position that any sort of acknowledgement can become a legal basis for liability. Read the fine print of your car insurance sometime, you may well find caluses that say do not admit anything even if it was your fault and don't say sorry because that single word can be construed as an admition of guilt and therefore liability. It's why whenever you see people on programs like watchdog saying I don't want compensation but they wont even give an apology, they can't apologies, an apology can be construed as a legal admission of liability meaning sorry amounts to please sue us.

I cannot emphasise enough get the which form letter for breach of contract under the SOGA off to the M.D. and you will get a response (maybe not the one you want, but a response and from someone who actually knows the score) and go from there.

You could report the situation to BBC's Watchdog as well, I did, not that I heard anything back.

[scooby do]

Dark eyes, would you be able to post a picture up of your screen? Here is mine, really getting on my nerves now.

[scooby do]

Forgot to add the picture

[scooby do]

This is taken from another RPTV , taken with same camera, and DVD....

[Graham27]

How are you getting on with your case?

Have they given you any firm answers yet?

[scooby do]

Been really busy at work so have not got my letters off. It is going to go legal see below, I have gone back to them stating that parts most relevant to the act they have failed to take into account. Sony also have come back with the default stance that they have no record over any problems and are quite contradictary on what they have said as they then admit that the parts are repaired on an exchange basis (as has been discussed). It really is a shambles. I have also sent pictures to my local Sony authorised repair centre asking for a quote for replacement OB but they want to fleece me £145 for the pleasure of them telling me I need a new OB when that is what I am asking for. It is clearly obvious in the supplied pictures what is required. However they do give some hope but with the attitude of the repair centre I cant see Sony doing any good will gestures. So legal route it is.

Amazon....

I would however like this opportunity to try and address your concerns. Firstly I would like to apologise for the issues that you have experienced with your order id: "Sony KDS55A2000U 55'' Rear Projection TV".

Under the Sale of Goods Act, a consumer is granted recourse against a seller of goods if those goods were defective at the time of purchase. This may include, in certain circumstances, repair, refund or replacement but only to the extent that doing so is not disproportionate to the value of the goods, having regard to the use the customer has already had of the goods and the nature of the goods.

Your item was dispatched to you on the xxxxxxx 2006 and, until recently, you have used it successfully and reported no fault with the product. As you used the product satisfactorily for a period of time which exceeded the manufacturer's warranty period, it is not established that the product did not conform to the contract (i.e. was defective) at the time of purchase.

Given our obligations to you under the Sale of Goods Act and, taking into consideration that you have used this product, without experiencing problems (to our knowledge), for a substantial period of time we will not be offering you a repair, full refund or replacement.


Sony

Unfortunately Sony United Kingdom Limited do not use the same parts as our Canadian products and there is no part number used in conjunction with the UK televisions, as a complete part is not available, they are repaired on an exchange program via our service network, as far as I am aware only the Canadian model has suffered any known issue with there optical block, Sony United Kingdom Limited has always investigated any instances where faults have occurred to ensure this has not resulted within the manufacturing process, to date this has been the case with your model, there are many factures that can cause this symptom, from dust to smoke or even faults occurring from over heating, all these can produce similar symptoms to those listed on the Canadian website.

I am sorry Sony does not get involved with any facts of law, as this are normally related to Sales of Goods act, this would be between your supplying retailer and yourself, once any proof of a fault from new has been proven.

However if you wish to write or send any information regards the findings from an authorised repair centre please send those along with your proof of purchase and we may be able to assist, depending on the age and cost of the repair, however if a repair centre can verify and inherent defect we may reconsider our actions.

Sony welcomes feedback of this nature and with this in mind, I would like to thank you for taking the time to write to us.

[Graham27]

Originally Posted by scooby do

Been really busy at work so have not got my letters off. It is going to go legal see below

Hold your horses!

Amazon....

Your item was dispatched to you on the xxxxxxx 2006 and, until recently, you have used it successfully and reported no fault with the product. As you used the product satisfactorily for a period of time which exceeded the manufacturer's warranty period, it is not established that the product did not conform to the contract (i.e. was defective) at the time of purchase

To be fair to them, you maybe haven't totally established that the product didn't conform/was defective at purchase. I don't know how you attempted to back up your claim, but if it was based on anecdotal evidence from folk like me, gathered from AV sites, they'd never accept that

Sony

However if you wish to write or send any information regards the findings from an authorised repair centre please send those along with your proof of purchase and we may be able to assist, depending on the age and cost of the repair, however if a repair centre can verify and inherent defect we may reconsider our actions.

I think that's a fair offer. Again, they're not going to offer anything based purely on your opinion, they'd need some form of proof, which could be gained by getting a report from the service centre they recommend.

If they are offering to "reconsider" their actions if an inherent fault is proven, that, to me, suggests a freebie repair. That's what you'd be entitled to if you used the SOGA with the retailer, and Sony would pick up the bill for that anyway. If you do get a report, and Sony don't offer a frebie repair, you just need to send the report to Amazon and claim compensation based on the SOGA (you're entitled to a refund of the cost of the report too, if your claim is upheld).

I can't see how you would lose if you get an engineers report, unless your problem isn't caused by an inherent fault. I think you're going to need one, either way.

[AndyCob]

I think you are slightly complaining on the wrong basis. The SOGA does require you (the owner) to essentially prove an inherent fault, something that is problematic. However there is an additional implication to the SOGA beyond goods being faulty at time of purchase vs. faults developed after a period of time.

The SOGA act not only makes statements about faulty goods but also the following "The Sale of Goods Act 1979 makes it an implied term of the contract that goods be as described, of satisfactory quality, durability and fit for purpose" this is taken from the Which form letter for such complaints.

Your complaint is not that the goods were faulty at purchase but rather have become faulty and are therefore not of satisfactory quality, durability and not fit for purpose. It's the durability angle that is the basis for complaining here, though there is some basis to argue the lack of durability stems from an inherent fault in the optical block.

There is a basis to argue that the goods have become faulty as a result of an inherent fault that was present at the point of sale but it is difficult to prove, the best suggestion of that is to refer to the USA lawsuit. According to the lawyer I consulted via Which's legal advice I had a case but I never had to go through with it.

This is basicly lifted from the form letter I sent:

On the ________ I purchased a Sony KDS-55A2000 SXRD RPTV from your ________ store, I received it on the __________. The TV has developed the following problem: a distinct yellow brown tinge to the whole display and a worse brownish green colour patch over much of the central and upper part of the screen.

This problem is consistent with the issue seen with these sets in the US, and is generally referred to as ‘Green Blob’, and is believed to be caused by a fault/flaw in the optical block of the TV. For your information this issue was in fact the basis of a class action law suit against Sony in the US which was settled in regards to the two previous SXRD models which use the same technology as the KDS-55A2000, with the result Sony agreed to cover the cost of repair and replacement of the 2005 models up to late 2008. Sony US also extended the warranty on the optical block on the 2006 US range which include the US version of the KDS-55A2000 to 3 years and agreed to pay or reimburse customers for both parts and fitting.

The Sale of Goods Act 1979 makes it an implied term of the contract that goods be as described, of satisfactory quality, durability and fit for purpose. As you are in breach of contract I am entitled to have the TV repaired and I would request that you confirm that you will do this within the next seven days.

[scooby do]

Thanks Andy, Durability given price paid is the angle I am going from, it appears that Sony in the US have also just covered the 2007 models until 2011 for free replacements. I wonder why us in the UK get non affected blocks yet Sony continued selling the TV's and not correcting the issue yet we in the UK had perfect optical blocks

I have phoned around a couple of places today and have various quotes from £38 to £70 to come and have a look at the TV on site however I expressed that I do not want the TV to be took off site for diagnostics (read additional charges) and the £70 guys said it is 95% the optical block. The other company would not look at it on site so uplift and diagnostics would be £145.

Such a shame as I have 2 new bulbs and probably never going to get to use them.

[majnu]

didn't some one here find a pdf with instructions on how to change the optical block.

It was pretty comprehensive where you have to almost gut the TV to get to it, but with step-by-step instructions it should be no problem.

Find the O/B part number and see if you can do it yourself if nothing prevails from Amazon.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...php?p=15381787

[scooby do]

I would have zero problems in installing an OB myself, trouble is they are just too expensive £817.69 from Sony (with very little discount available for trade). Unbeliveable when you look back and consider that John Lewis had the TV & stand IIRC for £999 including 5 year warranty.

[jonboy99]

Scooby have you got any further with amazon? My toshiba tv bought from amazon has started turning itself off randomly, so I suspect I will be going down this route soon.

Lots of threads on SOGA here but I can't find any outcomes of people attempting this with amazon uk.

[scooby do]

Have been busy with work commitents so have not been able to pursue. Will set aside the time this week and get the ball rolling. To be honest it does not matter which company you are dealing with as the law will prevail. They tried to tell me that since I purchased from Amazon I come under Amazon law (whatever that is).


They have tried to tell me that since I have had use of the TV for almost 3 years the Tv was fine at the time of purchase. With the Sony it had a latent defect so I have a particulary strong case. What is wrong with your TV? As you may not have such a strong case, and how long have you had it?

[jonboy99]

Amazon law - lol! And if I make a visit to head office will all the women be 6' tall and wearing little leather bikinis?

My tv has started refusing to come out of standby mode intermittently, although it has now been fine for the last 24 hours so I have my fingers crossed. I have had it about 30 months. It cost £970 or something at the time so I am inclined to think something of that price should last well over 3 years. I am not aware of any intrinic faults though (tosh 42wlt66) so not sure how much use the SOGA will be to me, but if there was no intrinisc fault why should it fail so soon?

[NorvernRob]

Originally Posted by scooby do

Thanks Andy, Durability given price paid is the angle I am going from, it appears that Sony in the US have also just covered the 2007 models until 2011 for free replacements. I wonder why us in the UK get non affected blocks yet Sony continued selling the TV's and not correcting the issue yet we in the UK had perfect optical blocks

How they can try that is beyond me, the guy that came to pick up my KDFE-50 for repair knew what was wrong with it before he even saw it. He said all RP Sony's were the same and he was suprised it had lasted 3 years!

[scooby do]

Exactly, it is so well documented that only a fool or Sony would try and say different. I am sure that there is a conspiracy theroy here and I cant believe Sony have not done the right thing for uk owners like they did in the States and offer out of warranty repairs. They should take a leaf out of Microsofts book (xbox 360 RROD)

[tb2010]

Originally Posted by NorvernRob

How they can try that is beyond me, the guy that came to pick up my KDFE-50 for repair knew what was wrong with it before he even saw it. He said all RP Sony's were the same and he was suprised it had lasted 3 years!

Indeed, for Sony to say we had perfect optical blocks in the UK is nothing short of a complete lie! Maybe if they need a bit of convincing they should look on these and loads of other forums and all the faulty ones that end up on eBay to see the amount of their LCD rear projection TV's with optical block problems!

[fieldsy]

I have a 55A2000 that recently developed some miscoluring, green tinge. Rang Sony Repair, quoted me £800 and said the part wasn't available anyway and it had to be calibrated in Barcelona, and to throw it away.

Rang Sony Customer services, they said, you should not have been told that information (as it sounds incorrect). Escalated to management, and I highlighted the US extended warranty.

They are going to ring me back, will update if I get anything positive out of them. But not holding my breath.

[scooby do]

Thanks,

Please let us know how you get on. There has been quite a few developments in the US but still Sony UK mantain that the UK has different optical blocks. Which they may be but the filters etc are the same I am sure.