[Scoobiesnacks]

This thread is only to capture different ways to complain to the BBC about the quality of the High Definition picture and to track who you've complained to so we can track our collective progress


Thread rules:
If you think the BBC HD picture is fine (I know some of you do and I respect that view), or you want to debate why its poor, don't use the thread, please use the thread below
BBC HD is not up to the required standard

Please do give:
- reports of where you've complained (please do complain to different contacts at the BBC, lets create some noise folks!)
- addresses for email contacts at the BBC ,
- programme and producer websites at the BBC for HD programmes, where we can complain straight to the producer
- media contacts and email addresses (like media guardian)
- Postal addresses for people who want to use normal mail
- regular updates on your complaining progress so we can keep track of how much noise we're making

Please link to this thread from other relevant threads on avforums and other forums e.g. - www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums.

I'm committed to making a least a couple of complaints every week. I hope you can too. Lets swamp the BBC at all levels.

Above all , please keep this thread alive


"BBC HD, it's like watching SD"

[Scoobiesnacks]

Here's idea and contact number 1 - BBC Gardeners World.

My thinking is if we can hit some programme makers, the folks who are going to a lot of trouble to shoot in HD, it might spread the message inside the BBC, and maybe a passionate producer might contact Danielle Nagler (head of HD) to tell her to sort it.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/gardenersworld/

Click on the contact us button , bottom right, complain about the high definition picture quality, it should go straight to the programme maker.

I've complained, if you can find the time, complain to Gardeners World too, report it on here and lets see how much collective action we can get going.

[ozzzy189]

My new complaint just went out...

I have written to you before, but now i feel i must take my actions further. BBChd is now a complete joke, i have now stopped watching it. Amazon was the final nail in the coffin. What should be a benchmark for all other programme makers and tv channels to follow was soft and indistinct, like watching tv through a misted up window.
Unfortunately all of your shows are dreadful in the picture quality stakes. period. If you think they look good then you need to go to specsavers. Watch ross kemp on gangs on sky1hd to see how hd should look on tv.
I truly believe since the bitrate was cut a year last may, that the PQ has deteriorated ever since. It simply is not good enough.
I am a member of a large base of av fans, we are disgusted at your treatment of hd programming and delivery. A new series like johnathan ross should look stunning. It doesn't at all. If you want to come to my house and see what the consumer is getting then you're welcome by all means, as i can't believe any of 'you 'lot have bbchd- you can't have, or it wouldn't be this bad.
Next stop could be watchdog. After that i may stop paying my licence and go to the media.
Please sort this out and get the person in charge to read our emails because i cannot believe that they think this is acceptable.
Regards,
Daniel Osborne.


What do you reckon ?

[ozzzy189]

Hi guys. Please take time to read and comment and if you can, complain to the bbc on their dreadful 'HD' service. Cheers- Ozzzy.

http://www.avforums.com/forums/showt...19#post7759619

posted this in several threads. hope it helps.

[PUD the Ancient]

I say that when the BBC HD service started it was great and just how HD should be . A year later and the bit rate has seemingly been chopped into little pieces and the service is a joke and not a patch on Sky 1 HD. The BBC seem to have no interest in the future or perhaps they just have no understanding of how to broadcast good HD programming. What ever the reason their service is utterly crap and I don't bother with it anymore.

[NICKMHD]

Originally Posted by pauldarrington

I say that when the BBC HD service started it was great and just how HD should be . A year later and the bit rate has seemingly been chopped into little pieces and the service is a joke and not a patch on Sky 1 HD. The BBC seem to have no interest in the future or perhaps they just have no understanding of how to broadcast good HD programming. What ever the reason their service is utterly crap and I don't bother with it anymore.

I agree.I've had Sky HD for 2 years now and the picture quality has gone downhill in the last year or so.Their football quality has been consistantly low and i cant remember the last time i was ever impressed by the picture quality on BBC HD.I find everything looks noisey and grainy.I did make a telephone complaint about a month ago but it seems to no avail.Someone at the BBC needs a kick up the backside!.

[ozzzy189]

It's probably because there's a bloody woman in charge ! I don't know a single lass who's even remotely interested in HD. My missus can't even tell the difference ! Still, with the beeb i can clearly undwerstand that. We need a geek in charge !

[Scoobiesnacks]

Remember this thread is to capture your complaining actions and ideas and contacts, ozzzy189's other thread is to debate the quality itself

BBC HD is not up to the required standard

[Scoobiesnacks]

Originally Posted by ozzzy189

My new complaint just went out...

I have written to you before, but now i feel i must take my actions further. BBChd is now a complete joke, i have now stopped watching it. Amazon was the final nail in the coffin. What should be a benchmark for all other programme makers and tv channels to follow was soft and indistinct, like watching tv through a misted up window.
Unfortunately all of your shows are dreadful in the picture quality stakes. period. If you think they look good then you need to go to specsavers. Watch ross kemp on gangs on sky1hd to see how hd should look on tv.
I truly believe since the bitrate was cut a year last may, that the PQ has deteriorated ever since. It simply is not good enough.
I am a member of a large base of av fans, we are disgusted at your treatment of hd programming and delivery. A new series like johnathan ross should look stunning. It doesn't at all. If you want to come to my house and see what the consumer is getting then you're welcome by all means, as i can't believe any of 'you 'lot have bbchd- you can't have, or it wouldn't be this bad.
Next stop could be watchdog. After that i may stop paying my licence and go to the media.
Please sort this out and get the person in charge to read our emails because i cannot believe that they think this is acceptable.
Regards,
Daniel Osborne.


What do you reckon ?

This is useful, I think standard letters help pull the facts together. People can cut and past and alter them if they want to tailor to their own needs
I don't get the Watchdog reference though - Which Watchdog?
Re Media - I think we should go to the media now, they like BBC stories

[Scoobiesnacks]

Anyone know what the Head of BBC's HD mail address would be ?
And who is her boss? I'd like to write to him or her. That could help

[Goodoldbakes]

There's a blog page here. You might want to try it...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/bbcinternet/danielle_nagler/

[derek500]

Originally Posted by Scoobiesnacks

Anyone know what the Head of BBC's mail address would be ?
And who is her boss? I'd like to write to him or her. That could help

firstname.surname@bbc.co.uk

[ozzzy189]

I'm from yorkshire too !

[Scoobiesnacks]

A bit of a response from the Beeb, admission of quality problems on Johnathon Ross and across the channel.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/bbcintern...orks_best.html

Quote:
"There are still elements affecting picture quality along the broadcast chain that we are working on (and some of these don't just relate to Jonathan Ross). I hope that, as we address them, the picture quality will improve across the channel

Great to see this is being addressed
Suggest you post the above blog folks, with your comments and experiences

[ozzzy189]

It wouldn't let me join that blog, i'll try again. I can't help feeling it's more of the low bitrate thatn anything else though.

[ozzzy189]

My new reply- sory forgot to read this thread. more complaints please.

Ref: 15845612

Dear Mr Osborne

Thank you for your email.

I was sorry to read that you're dissatisfied with the quality of BBC HD
broadcasts and I forwarded your complaint to our Reception Advice engineers.

We're naturally disappointed by your remarks as we believe the High
Definition service to be a significant step forwards in bringing higher
technical qualities to the viewer.

What would be helpful for us is if you could tell us about your
installation, and the programmes that in your opinion don't deliver
adequate HD quality. With regard to your installation, if you can tell us
the make and model of the TV set, the platform (satellite or cable), the
make and model of the set top box, and what connections and sockets you're
using to connect them we would find this very helpful.

Please quote the reference number above in any future correspondence.

Thank you again for taking the time to contact us with your feedback.

Regards

Barry Graham
BBC Information






My new response.

FAO Barry Graham.
Ref 15845612

Hi Barry.
I have a pioneer pdp508xd plasma tv. sky hd is connected direct to the panel via hdmi cable. I am not a novice and am aware that tvs should be correctly set up, and calibrated to d65 if possible. My equipment works fine, there are no problems with sky sports or any other decent hd material- eg, sky one hd, channel 4 hd.
I remember seeing hotel babylon series one way back in early 07 and can't believe how bad the last series looked in comparison, the Masters golf this year, was not as good as in april 07- just before 20% of the bitarte was cut funily enough. Robin Hood, torchwood, heroes, bonekickers, johnathan ross, green green grass, the tudors- the list is endless.
I would be willing for someone to come and see my set up and show them the difference between Amazon on my internal freeview, and bbc hd. The difference is very small. My tv is 50 inches, so a freeview pic has to be reasonable to look ok at that size. BBChd should blow it away- it simply does not.
I am not on a one man crusade to pooh pooh bbc hd, i'm just a passionate person who once thought that the bbc was at the forefront of british high definition programming. Sadly, this is no longer true. there is little mention of bbchd content on sd beeb trailers etc, there are too few shows worth watching, some sound is only in stereo and often is of low quality, and the biggest thing- the picture quality, is just awful. i can't believe the woman in charge sits at home watching it and thinks, 'God, that looks awesome' She can't do, it simply does not. I am a member of av forums where many many members are so fed up with the PQ they no longer watch it. i am also one of those. I now have a flick to hd, see how bad it is, then turn off my sky box to save some electric and use my on board freeview.
Please please up the bitrate back up to 20mbps, as i feel that is a major step back to a better pic. i realise there are many things that go towards a decent tv broadcast, but at the moment i feel like we are being fed a substandard service by people who are either ignorant, or just don't care.
kindest regards,
Daniel Osborne.

[Scoobiesnacks]

Any response? It's bad again tonight - Friday 17th Oct

[ozzzy189]

Guys, we haven't even got 20 complaints yet, how can we get more users to come here ? It's beyond a joke and it's really starting to pee me off. Why the hell do i bother ? That bloody woman in charge wants to come to my house and see the cack she's responsible for putting out.

[wednesday83]

Ive sent various complaints off but sadly no one seems bothered about Picture quality these days.

[ozzzy189]

New email today...

Dear Daniel

Thank you for contacting us and providing more detail of your issues
regarding the picture quality on BBC HD.

High definition transmission in Europe uses very new technology that is
constantly evolving and improving.

BBC Research continuously monitors the quality of the images and works with
manufacturers to improve the picture quality and also help reduce the
unsustainably high bit rates used at the start of the trial. In June 2007,
a new version of the transmission software was implemented that not only
improved the picture quality but allowed us to make the first of several
bit rate reductions that were required of us due to the limited available
spectrum. The timing was chosen to allow us to compare the quality of the
new version against the quality of a known event from the previous year.
We monitored audience response to the change and found the quality was seen
to give a noticeable improvement to a wide range of programme genres from
the very high demands of live sports coverage, to capturing subtle changes
required by drama.

Work with the manufacturers is continuing and we hope to implement more
improvements to quality and reduce the still-high bit rates in future,
without reducing the high quality of the pictures.

BBC HD takes picture quality of all programmes very seriously. From the
start of our HD transmissions, setting very high standards has been of the
utmost importance to us and we have even refused to broadcast programmes
that do not meet our criteria.

Thank you again for contacting the BBC.

Regards

Chris
BBC Digital Information
__________________________________________

Do Something Different for BBC Children in Need at
BBC - BBC Children In Need

-----Original Message-----

Hi Barry.
I have a pioneer pdp508xd plasma tv. sky hd is connected direct to the

panel via hdmi cable. I am not a novice and am aware that tvs should be
correctly set up, and calibrated to d65 if possible. My equipment works
fine, there are no problems with sky sports or any other decent hd material
-
eg, sky one hd, channel 4 hd.
I remember seeing hotel babylon series one way back in early 07 and
can't believe how bad the last series looked in comparison, the Masters gol
f
this year, was not as good as in april 07- just before 20% of the bitarte
was cut funily enough. Robin Hood, torchwood, heroes, bonekickers, johnatha
n
ross, green green grass, the tudors- the list is endless.
I would be willing for someone to come and see my set up and show them

the difference between Amazon on my internal freeview, and bbc hd. The
difference is very small. My tv is 50 inches, so a freeview pic has to be
reasonable to look ok at that size. BBChd should blow it away- it simply
does not.
I am not on a one man crusade to pooh pooh bbc hd, i'm just a passionat
e
person who once thought that the bbc was at the forefront of british high
definition programming. Sadly, this is no longer true. there is little
mention of bbchd content on sd beeb trailers etc, there are too few shows
worth watching, some sound is only in stereo and often is of low quality,
and the biggest thing- the picture quality, is just awful. i can't believe

the woman in charge sits at home watching it and thinks, 'God, that looks
awesome' She can't do, it simply does not. I am a member of av forums where
many many members are so fed up with the PQ they no longer watch it. i am
also one of those. I now have a flick to hd, see how bad it is, then turn
off my sky box to save some electric and use my on board freeview.
Please please up the bitrate back up to 20mbps, as i feel that is a
major step back to a better pic. i realise there are many things that go
towards a decent tv broadcast, but at the moment i feel like we are being
fed a substandard service by people who are either ignorant, or just don't

care.
kindest regards,
Daniel Osborne.

What a crock of *****, they want to drop the BR even more ! God help us.

[Scoobiesnacks]

I think they are trying to get the bit rates down as much as they can so they can get it onto Freeview HD, and they are using Freesat as the test bed.

[Starburst]

Originally Posted by Scoobiesnacks

I think they are trying to get the bit rates down as much as they can so they can get it onto Freeview HD, and they are using Freesat as the test bed.

If that's the case then ring SKY or ITV and get the make/model of their encoders which are producing good quality at much lower bitrates than BBCHD runs at now
I still suspect BBC HD programming picture quality has far more to do with production choices and bitrate increasing the bitrate won't make a difference there.

[wednesday83]

Originally Posted by Starburst

If that's the case then ring SKY or ITV and get the make/model of their encoders which are producing good quality at much lower bitrates than BBCHD runs at now
I still suspect BBC HD programming picture quality has far more to do with production choices and bitrate increasing the bitrate won't make a difference there.

Starburst, I beg you to please find someone with episodes of Jools Holland from 12 months ago and other programmes screened then on BBc HD and compare them to now and then carry on telling us its not the bit rate reduction. I know you like to blame production quite often, but sometimes its crystal clear its starved bandwith.

BBC HD should do a test for 1 day. This friday they should Increase the bandwith to what it was last year and let us watch Jonny Ross and Jools Holland. This will proove once and for all that the problem is simply starved bandwith.

All this crap they spurt out about "not enough bandwith" is total nonsence. im sure they could purchase some more.

[Scoobiesnacks]

Some ideas on how to reply to this

High definition transmission in Europe uses very new technology that is
constantly evolving and improving.

Yes , like at ITV and Sky where the picture is much better on the whole despite lower bandwidths

BBC Research continuously monitors the quality of the images and works with
manufacturers to improve the picture quality and also help reduce the
unsustainably high bit rates used at the start of the trial.

Why is it unsustainable? Also, why are other channels getting better results with lower bitrates?

In June 2007,
a new version of the transmission software was implemented that not only
improved the picture quality

Well the consensus on avforums.com is the picture quality has got worse


Who is the Head of Research? I think we should get his email.

[paul_geaton]

I've just come across this site from Google. I emailed a complaint about the BBC HD Programming to the BBC last week. I wasn't terribly satisfied with their response and thought I'd use Google to see if there was anyone else who thought the same about it.

It's reassuring to see that there are other people, with far more of a technical background than I have, who seem to agree with my perception of the (poor) quality of the programmes and seem determined to do something about it.

I note that you want to see more complaints, and the replies to them, so I copy mine below, in full. Apologies that I'm not as expert in the HD field as others in this forum. I'm very new to it.

-----My Original Message----

I've invested in a Freesat to get access to BBC HD, but I think I've wasted my money. For most of your programmes, the picture doesn't seem to be up to the sort of HD standards that I've seen demonstrated in TV showrooms (Sky HD and Blu-Ray). The other problem is the number of HD programmes, which is far too few. Why do you spend hours of each day repeating the same HD Preview? Why don't you show more HD films (I haven't seen any since I got the thing a month ago)? Why is the programming mostly the sort of fare shown on BBC1 or BBC3 and not more from BBC2 or BBC4? How about some classical music, opera, rugby, etc.? If you want HD to take off (and I presume the BBC wants to be a market leader) then you'll need to improve the quality (bitrate?), variety and quantity, otherwise people who've seen it will not be recommending it to their friends.

----The BBC’s reply------

Dear Paul

Thank you for your e-mail about BBC HD.

High definition broadcasts offer a sharper, more detailed picture than standard definition broadcasts. The improvement over a standard definition picture is particularly noticeable on flat-panel displays (LCD and plasma), so if you don't have one of these televisions then you may not see such a difference.

On the point of our HD output, not every BBC programme is currently made in high definition, so they cannot be broadcast on BBC HD. The BBC is committed to high definition production and will gradually increase the number of programmes made in high definition as the technology expands and becomes more mainstream.

Thank you again for contacting the BBC.

Regards

Chris
BBC Digital Information

-----My Latest Message----

Hi Andy (Quested),

I wanted to comment on the BBC HD channels quality and variety but, after a lot of searching the BBC website, I was only able to find a complaints email address. In the end I resorted to that to make my comments and I actually did get a response (both are copied above) but I think the respondent (Chris, from the Digital information department) has totally missed my point (he seemed to be suggesting to me that I need to get an HD TV to appreciate the quality, which of course I do have already). Disappointed with the reply, I searched the BBC website, again in vain, for a better way of contacting the HD department to deliver my comments. I finally found the Danielle Nagler DOG Blog, and thence yours and this comments box, by typing "BBC HD is rubbish" into Google. So, my first comment is that you should make it easier for people to find the Blogs from the BBC Home page. Now I've got here, I can see some good explanations for some of the inadequacies I commented upon and also that other contributors, far more technical than me, back up my impression that BBC HD picture quality is, in many cases, not as good as it might be. You can see my original comments above, and now with the benefit of reading your Blog I'd like to elaborate on them. I still can't understand why you keep repeating the preview, on a rolling loop. It doesn't even seem to be a preview as most of the programmes have already been on, i.e. the Tudors and the Olympics, etc. Instead of showing "preview" clips, you could at least repeat the whole programme for those who've only recently got Freesat. I agree with all the comments about the DOG and am very pleased to see that you're listening to them and, at least, compromising. But you could go further and get rid of it altogether; I can't see anyone supporting it. Some of your programmes are excellent, like Little Dorrit and (just for the picture quality) Antiques Roadshow (which I've never watched before), but in general the variety of your programming is still rubbish. In the evenings, it’s mostly situation comedy shows, which are just dire (Lead Balloon last night being the exception, that was great). I still can't believe you don't show more films; why ever not? And why, having gone to the trouble of making something like Little Dorrit in HD, don't you record it in 5.1 surround sound too. That should be the standard. It’s annoying when 5.1 just pops up, filling my room with sound, between shows and then reverts to normal stereo when the programme comes on. Also, you should have Top Gear, F1 and Rugby in HD.

Regards,

Paul

[Scoobiesnacks]

Welcome to the club Paul - here on avforums we're relentlessly trying to get heard at BBC HD, one moment Danielle will admit there are quality problems, the next BBC research are defending the picture quality saying it is all down to our tv settings.

[wednesday83]

The bbc try and have us believe the drop in quality is our screens and nothing to do with the drop in bit rate from 20mbps to 16. Maybe it was a total coinsidence that both just happend at the same time.

BBC = Bull Bull Crap