[MJI1961]

Bit annoyed with the BBC HD service. The picture and sound is great of those few progs that are on it...
However...
I really don`t understand how progs are selected for the BBC HD service. For example, Torchwood is. Doctor Who isn`t. The Invisibles was. New Tricks isn`t. Wimbledon and Euro 08 was. The Open which begins tomorrow wont be shown in HD. This would look spectacular in HD.
The channel just sits there for most of the day showing previews, surely this cant be right? I emailed the BBC and they said that funding for this service wa still an issue which i dont beleive for one moment. Why are the most popular progs not in BBC HD? No wonder Sky have the upper hand in HD...

[Bachstrad]

Originally Posted by MJI1961

Bit annoyed with the BBC HD service. The picture and sound is great of those few progs that are on it...
However...
I really don`t understand how progs are selected for the BBC HD service. For example, Torchwood is. Doctor Who isn`t. The Invisibles was. New Tricks isn`t. Wimbledon and Euro 08 was. The Open which begins tomorrow wont be shown in HD. This would look spectacular in HD.
The channel just sits there for most of the day showing previews, surely this cant be right? I emailed the BBC and they said that funding for this service wa still an issue which i dont beleive for one moment. Why are the most popular progs not in BBC HD? No wonder Sky have the upper hand in HD...

There are four Major Golf Championships worldwide and this is the only one not being shown in HD.

The Open is the oldest championship in the world and attracts a field of the top players in the world (sadly no Tiger Woods this year through injury) and it's one of the 'crown jewell' sporting events that the BBC get almost by default. It's a poor show that the BBC are not covering it in HD, particularly as we got The Masters from the States in HD via the BBC.

ATB

Max

[mjcairney]

I normally stick up for the BBC because they are usually extremely good at whatever they do, but I agree that they are totally wrong in not using the HD Channel for the Open, the biggest golfing tournament around.

Cheers,

Martin.

[Cupart]

Could also be that BBC doesn't have rights to broadcast in HD along with other programs as it is a different format from SD...

[Bachstrad]

Originally Posted by Cupart

Could also be that BBC doesn't have rights to broadcast in HD along with other programs as it is a different format from SD...

The BBC have the broadcast rights.

'There will be firm words between the R&A and BBC Sport hierarchy at Birkdale this week over the broadcaster's financial reluctance to commit to screening The Open in high definition, which is now the norm for the American tournaments and Sky's golf coverage.

The R&A have a rights deal with the BBC until 2011, and boss Peter Dawson said: 'We have a duty to keep the championship up to date and the TV coverage should do the same.'

Source


ATB

Max

[Stephen Neal]

The BBC are likely to be covering the Open in HD from next year, when their main (now SIS's main) huge event truck is replaced with an HD model. This is the truck that does the BBC One/Two studio for Wimbledon, as well as the Open and other very big multi-feed events. There are VERY few other trucks in Europe that are designed to work in a similar manner. (There are lots of large multi-camera trucks - but they aren't designed to work in the same way)

The current truck (well there are two similar trucks) are SD-only - but now the BBC has sold their OB division to SIS - SIS are investing in new production units for HD.

At the moment the BBC can't do the Open in HD without changing their resource providers from their former in-house division to a 3rd party provider - as this year their former in-house division don't have the HD capacity (though they will next year). With an event of the scale of the Open (which takes a fortnight to set-up) the Beeb really require the expertise and experience of the teams who have done it over the years - and who the Beeb probably have long-term contracts with.

Added to this there is also a shortage of HD production capacity in Europe in general at the moment - as many trucks (including most of the current SIS HD units) are all on the same boat to Beijing for the Olympics... (The BBC are HD host broadcasters for the rowing and other flatwater sports I believe)

[EEC3]

I thought The Open was in HD last year (or maybe 2 years ago?)

This is appalling - the BBC clearly don't care. Sky show pretty much every golf tournament in HD.

[Bachstrad]

Originally Posted by Stephen Neal

The BBC are likely to be covering the Open in HD from next year, when their main (now SIS's main) huge event truck is replaced with an HD model. This is the truck that does the BBC One/Two studio for Wimbledon, as well as the Open and other very big multi-feed events. There are VERY few other trucks in Europe that are designed to work in a similar manner. (There are lots of large multi-camera trucks - but they aren't designed to work in the same way)

The current truck (well there are two similar trucks) are SD-only - but now the BBC has sold their OB division to SIS - SIS are investing in new production units for HD.

At the moment the BBC can't do the Open in HD without changing their resource providers from their former in-house division to a 3rd party provider - as this year their former in-house division don't have the HD capacity (though they will next year). With an event of the scale of the Open (which takes a fortnight to set-up) the Beeb really require the expertise and experience of the teams who have done it over the years - and who the Beeb probably have long-term contracts with.

Added to this there is also a shortage of HD production capacity in Europe in general at the moment - as many trucks (including most of the current SIS HD units) are all on the same boat to Beijing for the Olympics... (The BBC are HD host broadcasters for the rowing and other flatwater sports I believe)

Ah well I expect someone will find a truck for the start of the EPL season on the 16th of August, at least I hope they do because the Olympics doesn't finish until the 24th August!

ATB

Max

[MJI1961]

Seems a reasonable explanation why the Open isn`t being covered. Only one truck eh? This goes some way to explaining the absence of the Doctors adventures in HD. (Arkannis Major is a quite a way away...)
Cardiff aint though. Hmmm...

[Stephen Neal]

Originally Posted by eec3

I thought The Open was in HD last year (or maybe 2 years ago?)

Open has never been HD AFAIK.

HD Radio cameras only just arrived in time for the 2006 World Cup - and they are the key to covering Golf. (Loads of the holes are covered using radio cameras not cabled/fibred cameras)

Think the Ryder Cup in 2006 was the first BIG full HD golfing event.

In the US a lot of their "HD" Golf was only partially HD - rad cams were still SD upconverts (often analogue composite), only cabled cams were HD. It has been a bone of contention to many US HD fans.

[Stephen Neal]

Originally Posted by Bachstrad

Ah well I expect someone will find a truck for the start of the EPL season on the 16th of August, at least I hope they do because the Olympics doesn't finish until the 24th August!

ATB

Max

Suspect the footy trucks from Sky's facility providers are ring-fenced and not going anywhere...

[Stephen Neal]

Originally Posted by MJI1961

Seems a reasonable explanation why the Open isn`t being covered. Only one truck eh?

The SIS (formerly BBC) OB operation has three main HD trucks currently. One medium sized (does a lot of Proms and was doing Court Number One at Wimbledon) and two large trucks (Rugby, Footy, Athletics, Glastonbury kind of trucks) which are already heading to Beijing by boat I believe. The Beeb had to hire in for Wimbledon Centre Court this year (one of these large trucks would normally do this) - but Centre Court is a relatively small commitment in comparison to the Golf.

The two very large trucks used for presentation at major sporting events (Wimbledon, Golf etc.) are still SD only - not until an HD one arrives next year will it be feasible to do the Golf in HD.

On an event like the Golf you often have a couple of trucks working together - as there are so many cameras that a single truck can't cope with them all (you might have one truck handling radio cameras, one handling cabled cameras) - so you work the cameras into multiple trucks, and then take the camera feeds from these trucks into another truck, which will mix between them (and also deal with the studio linking). You might also have another truck dealing with recording and replays etc. For this to be HD - all the trucks have to be HD - or you have to work differently.

If the Beeb had a bottomless pit of money they could try and hire in other facilities (though as I said nearly every European HD truck not committed to long-term contracts is on its way to China) - but they don't...

This goes some way to explaining the absence of the Doctors adventures in HD. (Arkannis Major is a quite a way away...)
Cardiff aint though. Hmmm...

Nice thought - but they make Doctor Who using camcorders... The main arguments used for Doctor Who remaining SD are time (HD sets take longer to build and dress, HD effects take longer to produce etc.) and quality. However I suspect money is also an issue.

[Bachstrad]

Personally, I'd much rather the BBC spent my license money going up the road to Birkdale with an HD truck, rather than sending it half way around the world to cover the Olympics!

ATB

Max

[mrbleu]

ITV had an HD truck at the Goodwood festival of speed last week, provided by Arqiva who have 2 of them. They are also used by Sky for footy.

Surely the Beeb could have used one of these rigs if theirs was on a ship to Bejing?

[Stephen Neal]

Originally Posted by Bachstrad

Personally, I'd much rather the BBC spent my license money going up the road to Birkdale with an HD truck, rather than sending it half way around the world to cover the Olympics!

ATB

Max

I suspect that the Olympic Broadcasting set-up are paying the BBC to do the coverage of the events they are host-broadcasting. It is one of those things that broadcasters are sort of expected to do if asked as Olympic broadcasters. Without them doing it there would be no decent, Olympic standard, coverage of many events.

Sweden and Finland are sending a lot of expertise for the Athletics coverage and the opening/closing ceremonies, Australia does the swimming etc.

The whole event is so huge that no single country can really provide all the coverage these days - so broadcasters from around the world provide teams to cover specific events as host broadcasters that they have experience in providing high quality coverage of - without it you'd have producer/directors and crew covering sports they've probably never seen before! (Canada, Australia, Korea, Japan, UK, Brazil, Greece, Slovenia, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Hungary, Cuba etc. all provide producers and/or facilities)

(The BBC have historically done this - Tennis at Barcelona 92, Luge/Bob at Lillehammer 94 are two examples)

[Bachstrad]

Originally Posted by Stephen Neal

I suspect that the Olympic Broadcasting set-up are paying the BBC to do the coverage of the events they are host-broadcasting. It is one of those things that broadcasters are sort of expected to do if asked as Olympic broadcasters. Without them doing it there would be no decent, Olympic standard, coverage of many events.

Sweden and Finland are sending a lot of expertise for the Athletics coverage and the opening/closing ceremonies, Australia does the swimming etc.

The whole event is so huge that no single country can really provide all the coverage these days - so broadcasters from around the world provide teams to cover specific events as host broadcasters that they have experience in providing high quality coverage of - without it you'd have producer/directors and crew covering sports they've probably never seen before! (Canada, Australia, Korea, Japan, UK, Brazil, Greece, Slovenia, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Hungary, Cuba etc. all provide producers and/or facilities)

(The BBC have historically done this - Tennis at Barcelona 92, Luge/Bob at Lillehammer 94 are two examples)

Whilst all of that is very interesting, I'm afraid none of it changes my opinion that the BBC should be spending my license fee covering the oldest major golf championship in HD, just up the road at Royal Birkdale.

If they have other commitments, whether they be historical, or down to the fact that their expertise is required on the otherside of the World, then IMHO they should allow someone else to take on the HD coverage of what is IMHO a major sporting event taking place in our own Country.

ATB

Max

[suffolktoon]

Originally Posted by Bachstrad

Whilst all of that is very interesting, I'm afraid none of it changes my opinion that the BBC should be spending my license fee covering the oldest major golf championship in HD, just up the road at Royal Birkdale.

If they have other commitments, whether they be historical, or down to the fact that their expertise is required on the otherside of the World, then IMHO they should allow someone else to take on the HD coverage of what is IMHO a major sporting event taking place in our own Country.

ATB

Max

Humble, what a joke, downright arrogant more like. A perfectly reasoned explanation as to why service could not be provided dismissed out of hand because it doesn't suit you're own very blinkered outlook on life where anyone who doesn't agree with you has to be wrong.

[Bachstrad]

Originally Posted by suffolktoon

Humble, what a joke, downright arrogant more like. A perfectly reasoned explanation as to why service could not be provided dismissed out of hand because it doesn't suit you're own very blinkered outlook on life where anyone who doesn't agree with you has to be wrong.

Hey, it's my opinion, nothing more nothing less. You're entitled to your opinion too, but there is no need to be insulting and I never said that anyone who doesn't agree with me has to be wrong.

ATB

Max

[johnscarlet]

Moved, as this is more to do with HD programming than Satellite

[uno]

Dont worry about HD coverage for the start of the football season on Sky, The main reason that most of the UK ob providers didnt decide to bid for the olympics work is due to the have enough on in the UK
Arqiva-Championship football (HD) and Speedway (SD)
CTV- Cricket (HD) and European tour golf (HD)
Arena- Wimbledon for BBC (HD) and Premiership Setanta (SD)
Telegenic- Indoor masters football (HD) and were a host at Euro 2008
021-ITV touring cars,Boxing and various other ITV things
Visions=Premiership football (HD) and Football first (SD) although i do believe they may have sent one unit to Beijing for a US network

[Bachstrad]

Originally Posted by uno

Dont worry about HD coverage for the start of the football season on Sky, The main reason that most of the UK ob providers didnt decide to bid for the olympics work is due to the have enough on in the UK
Arqiva-Championship football (HD) and Speedway (SD)
CTV- Cricket (HD) and European tour golf (HD)
Arena- Wimbledon for BBC (HD) and Premiership Setanta (SD)
Telegenic- Indoor masters football (HD) and were a host at Euro 2008
021-ITV touring cars,Boxing and various other ITV things
Visions=Premiership football (HD) and Football first (SD) although i do believe they may have sent one unit to Beijing for a US network

Thanks uno, glad to know they're not all on the 'slow boat to China'.

ATB

Max

[petejigsaw]

Good to see that so many others have the same concerns as me!

I think it is appalling that the BBC haven't had the balls to openly come out and explain why the Open is not on HD. They spend millions pushing HD adverts through their own channels ("See things as you've never seen them before..." etc etc) yet when they have the chance to show one of the biggest sporting events in the world (and I include the Olympics in that) they let themselves get side tracked by the Olympics as China is obviously useless at organising anything technical!

It worries me that come 2012, with the eyes of the world on London for the 'London' Olympics, we'll find that the BBC has sent all its cameras to Timbuktu to cover the Yak Sheering World Championships!

It is simply a question of priorities, and with the BBC already being slated for letting England football and the FA Cup go, you'd think they would want to fight like hell to cover the events they have left in the best possible way. Why haven't the BBC seen this coming and worked with one of Sky's partners to cover the Open in HD?????????

The USA was light years behind the UK in TV coverage of things like golf until last year, yet now, they cover all their major tournaments in HD while we have to put up with SD for arguably the biggest golf event of the year!

All sports fans should be worried by this disregard for the viewer and for the misleading advertising that the BBC PR monkeys spurt out. Whether you like golf or seemingly despise it, a la Suffolktoon

Humble, what a joke, downright arrogant more like. A perfectly reasoned explanation as to why service could not be provided dismissed out of hand because it doesn't suit you're own very blinkered outlook on life where anyone who doesn't agree with you has to be wrong.

Come on BBC - play the game properly.........

[bharatgi]

I saw an open advert on the bbc1 last night and it claimed it was in HD

[tigertimtim]

they also should of showed the grand national as well but they didnt yet any tin pot type music event gets shown to death

[penna]

Originally Posted by tigertimtim

they also should of showed the grand national as well but they didnt yet any tin pot type music event gets shown to death

They really can't win with some people unless they show absolutely everything in HD, can they?

BBC have (or will have) shown Euro 2008, Wimbledon, Olympics, FA Cup football, Six Nations Rugby, and Masters Golf in HD this summer. According to other posters in this thread, the Open may well be in HD next year. If the reasons for not showing it this year are accurate then they sound reasonable to me (however nice it would be to show it in HD).

With respect to music, Glastonbury (is that the tin pot music event you were reffering to?) was shown in HD. T in the Park was not, and I don't believe that Reading/Leeds will be.

[Gae]

Give me Golf, Snooker and Footie in HD any time over Wimbledon, Cricket or Horse Racing.

Gae

[suffolktoon]

Originally Posted by petejigsaw

Good to see that so many others have the same concerns as me!

I think it is appalling that the BBC haven't had the balls to openly come out and explain why the Open is not on HD. They spend millions pushing HD adverts through their own channels ("See things as you've never seen them before..." etc etc) yet when they have the chance to show one of the biggest sporting events in the world (and I include the Olympics in that) they let themselves get side tracked by the Olympics as China is obviously useless at organising anything technical!

It worries me that come 2012, with the eyes of the world on London for the 'London' Olympics, we'll find that the BBC has sent all its cameras to Timbuktu to cover the Yak Sheering World Championships!

It is simply a question of priorities, and with the BBC already being slated for letting England football and the FA Cup go, you'd think they would want to fight like hell to cover the events they have left in the best possible way. Why haven't the BBC seen this coming and worked with one of Sky's partners to cover the Open in HD?????????

The USA was light years behind the UK in TV coverage of things like golf until last year, yet now, they cover all their major tournaments in HD while we have to put up with SD for arguably the biggest golf event of the year!

All sports fans should be worried by this disregard for the viewer and for the misleading advertising that the BBC PR monkeys spurt out. Whether you like golf or seemingly despise it, a la Suffolktoon



Come on BBC - play the game properly.........

Why is there this tendency on this board for people to be judged as anti something just because they have an opinion that doesn't agree 100% with some other persons opinion?

Do I despise golf - no.
Do I watch golf on tv - rarely, perhaps the last few hours of the Ryder cup.
Do I have a set of golf clubs - yes.
Do I use them - no.

Do I think given a choice that the once every four years Olympics should get priority over an annual golf tournament, one of many shown throughout the year - yes, I do.

In an ideal world the kit would be widely available, but even TV companies have to live within their means and not pander to everybody.

Move along, there'll be yet another golf tournament along in a minute.

[JimmyHart]

They should spend some money on broadcasting instead of severly overpaying DJ's like Chris Moyles 600k a year and Wossy a few million a year.

Radio 1 is crap anyway.

[MJI1961]

Got this back from the beeb today...
Thanks for your e-mail regarding BBC HD.

I understand that you would like to know why the Open Championship 2008 and likewise BBC TWO programme 'Torchwood' have not been broadcast on HD.

Your concerns were addressed to the BBC Sport team and they have responded with the following:

?The BBC was only given permission to run a full-service HD channel at the end of last year. Because of this we were unable to commit resources to some major events early in 2008. However, more and more BBC Sport events will be covered in HD through this year - including, for football fans, the FA Cup semi-final and final along with the whole of the BBC's coverage of Euro 2008.?

To address your point on some programmes being available in HD and not others, not every BBC programme is currently made in high definition, so they cannot be broadcast on BBC HD. The BBC is committed to high definition production and will gradually increase the number of programmes made in high definition.

You may also find the following section of our website of particular interest;

http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbchd/faqs.shtml#favourites

I'd also like to assure you that I've registered your complaint on our audience log. This is a daily report of audience feedback that's circulated to many BBC staff, including members of the BBC Executive Board, channel controllers and other senior managers. The audience logs are seen as important documents that can help shape decisions about future programming and content and all feedback we receive, whether positive or negative, is always appreciated.

Thanks once again for taking the time to contact us.

Regards

Sean Moss
BBC Complaints

Says a lot but says nothing if you know what i mean. The comment about Torchwood is wrong. That IS on HD. It`s Doctor Who that aint...
MJ

[KenjohnB]

Originally Posted by MJI1961

Got this back from the beeb today...
Thanks for your e-mail regarding BBC HD.

I understand that you would like to know why the Open Championship 2008 and likewise BBC TWO programme 'Torchwood' have not been broadcast on HD.

Your concerns were addressed to the BBC Sport team and they have responded with the following:

?The BBC was only given permission to run a full-service HD channel at the end of last year. Because of this we were unable to commit resources to some major events early in 2008. However, more and more BBC Sport events will be covered in HD through this year - including, for football fans, the FA Cup semi-final and final along with the whole of the BBC's coverage of Euro 2008.?
To address your point on some programmes being available in HD and not others, not every BBC programme is currently made in high definition, so they cannot be broadcast on BBC HD. The BBC is committed to high definition production and will gradually increase the number of programmes made in high definition.

You may also find the following section of our website of particular interest;

http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbchd/faqs.shtml#favourites

I'd also like to assure you that I've registered your complaint on our audience log. This is a daily report of audience feedback that's circulated to many BBC staff, including members of the BBC Executive Board, channel controllers and other senior managers. The audience logs are seen as important documents that can help shape decisions about future programming and content and all feedback we receive, whether positive or negative, is always appreciated.

Thanks once again for taking the time to contact us.

Regards

Sean Moss
BBC Complaints

Says a lot but says nothing if you know what i mean. The comment about Torchwood is wrong. That IS on HD. It`s Doctor Who that aint...
MJ

So, a carefully considered reply, eh, not a bog-standard response given months ago? Telling us of things that they intend to cover after they have been broadcast.

Good old BEEB.