[jennifer]

Before Widescreen and Digital TV, I became increasingly annoyed at the black lines/areas appearing at the top and bottom of my screen. After contacting the TV companies, I was informed that this was testing for the forthcoming Wide Screen format.

Since then, I have upgraded to Sky Digital and also have a Freeview PVR and now a new widescreen TV.

Why then am I plagued by ads and trailers that now appear "Super Widesceeen" with large black areas top and bottom of my screen. I know it is intentional because even the BBC uses this technique and is able to add text into the black areas as they think fit, (I am not referring to films intended for cinema here).

Is it considered fashionable to show a horizontally thin picture? I have invested in equipment that shows full screen and widescreen, so what's the game here?

JH

[Starburst]

I think what you are describing is 4:3 source material which is being manipulated to a 14:9 ratio which is then being broadcast to a STB or TV that is either permanently set to 16:9 or dynamically adjusts and is tripping over itself.


There is no format beyond 16:9 for broadcast TV, there is upto roughly 2.35:1 which has it's roots in theatrical releases but again no plans to mass produce fixed ratio displays, front projection systems meet that market all ready.

Having said that shows like CSI do occasionally frame picture elements within the 16:9 frame which leaves black areas but these are done for effect and not the norm for the whole show. Another example would be LivingTV which is currently showing 14:9 and 4:3 content or FX which is showing a lot of Letterbox, both require the TV to adjust accordingly.

[Adcook]

If its just adverts and trailers you are having this trouble with, is it not just that these are filmed in a wider format (probably because they are shown in cinemas as well as on TV). If it's all programmes, have you enabled the 16:9 output on you sky box and freeview PVR? Otherwise you are probably getting a normal 4:3 format picture stretched out to fit your 16:9 widescreen.

[jennifer]

I have my inputs set correctly. It is almost always ads and trailers, but I mean LOTS of lost area to black, not just the effects mentioned above, i.e., they are transmitting a full screen but making the top and bottom intentionally black for an effect that I do not understand.
I do get the smaller black bands with Discovery's Mythbusters but that's acceptable.

JH

[Starburst]

Trailers and ads are probably not anamorphic widescreen so perhaps the TV is then showing a letterbox image thinking it's anamorphic and hence huge black bars.

Any particular channel this happens?

[jennifer]

Originally Posted by Starburst

Trailers and ads are probably not anamorphic widescreen so perhaps the TV is then showing a letterbox image thinking it's anamorphic and hence huge black bars.

Any particular channel this happens?

Most channels when they think the effect is "cool". Just watch a series of ads on ITV1 or trailers on BBC1 - you'll see what I mean.

Going back to my OP - I could not get anyone else to acknowlege the presence of black lines 15 years ago when I first started to see them on my 4:3 Analogue TV.

JH

[Starburst]

Originally Posted by jennifer

Most channels when they think the effect is "cool". Just watch a series of ads on ITV1 or trailers on BBC1 - you'll see what I mean.

I hardly watch either channel and then I use a DVR

Right, just subjected myself to 4 minutes of adverts
Do you mean something like this if so then yep it's an artisitic choice perhaps to highlight significant numbers.

[jennifer]

Originally Posted by Starburst

Right, just subjected myself to 4 minutes of adverts
Do you mean something like this if so then yep it's an artisitic choice perhaps to highlight significant numbers.

Yes - that pic is the sort of thing but not so much text usually, (artistic choice).

This is more the type of thing......for Citroen C5

JH

[soundstory]

well that's just to highlight the phone number wouldn't you say

[jennifer]

Originally Posted by soundstory

well that's just to highlight the phone number wouldn't you say

Ho Ho! (instead of LOL).
If you look carefully you will see my shiny TV frame and two black areas on the screen with NO text at all. All the text is in the Super Widescreen area. The "logo" is my Sky+ box on pause.

JH

[Starburst]

The channel may be broadcasting a mixture of anamorphic widescreen and letter boxed content, the flag tells the TV to switch modes and perhaps during the adverts there is an error and instead of the TV filling the screen it shows as 4:3 letterboxed and stretched.

What channel was this on?

[jennifer]

Ch 4

[nwgarratt]

You would hate Virgin 1. The show everything in 4:3 Letterbox (like that car advert). That looks like a 4:3 Letterbox picture in 16:9 mode. It keeps the borders but stretches the picture all the way across. The only way to get proper widescreen is to zoom the picture which while shows the right aspect ratio, it will worsen the quality.

[IAN P]

At least ch4 show the films in their oar,yep,even 2.35 cinemascope are shown in all their glory,during the afternoon as well,shame about the ads though

[nwgarratt]

Originally Posted by IAN P

At least ch4 show the films in their oar,yep,even 2.35 cinemascope are shown in all their glory,during the afternoon as well,shame about the ads though

True, took them long enough and just copying film four. I fast forward through the ads anyway.

[rd9124]

Originally Posted by jennifer

Why then am I plagued by ads and trailers that now appear "Super Widesceeen" with large black areas top and bottom of my screen.

The only adverts I've noticed this on are super glossy car adverts. I guess they're trying create some sort of big budget movie effect.

My pet hate at the moment is the amount of channels on Sky that still broadcast in 4:3 with tiny black bars at the top and bottom especially as my widescreen CRT in the living room doesn't have a 14:9 option and I'm left with a tiny picture in the middle of the screen. You would think as its almost impossible to get a decent sized 4:3 television nowadays that 16:9 broadcasts would be the standard rather than the exception.

[Shaun666]

Anyone who's bothered by a few adverts etc being shown with black bars at the top and bottom, even on a widescreen tv, is watching far too much telly in my opinion !

What pisses me off is all those channells which are still incapable of broadcasting a proper anamorphic widescreen picture so end up showing progs in 14:9 and you have to zoom them to get the right ratio. Yes, Virgin, I'm talking about you !

[nwgarratt]

Originally Posted by Shaun666

What pisses me off is all those channells which are still incapable of broadcasting a proper anamorphic widescreen picture so end up showing progs in 14:9 and you have to zoom them to get the right ratio. Yes, Virgin, I'm talking about you !

Unfortunately, I no longer have a 14:9 option. I had one on my old TV but now just have 4:3, 16:9 at 4:3 expanded (same as 4:3 LB zoom mode). I have to use the zoom mode and cut off the top and bottom. Unfortunately, it cuts of a little of the actual picture as well as the black borders.

[CLH]

I have the same TV as the OP. And Sky.

I have to say I've not noticed these widescreen adverts at all. In fact I can't recall the last thing I saw which did not appear to be in the correct ratio.

[sunnybacon]

I've found that some films, very occasionally, are broadcast in 21:9 - the cinema format. This really pisses me off.

[jennifer]

@ CLH... I have to say I've not noticed these widescreen adverts at all. In fact I can't recall the last thing I saw which did not appear to be in the correct ratio.

Well here's a clip from the build up to the Grand National on BBC 1 yesterday. It is neither an ad NOR a trailer. The bar at the bottom is my Humax PVR status.

This lasted 30 seconds and was sometimes in B&W but the main programme was all full screen.

Click image for the Bigger Picture..

[IMG]

[/IMG]

JH

[IAN P]

Originally Posted by sunnybacon

I've found that some films, very occasionally, are broadcast in 21:9 - the cinema format. This really pisses me off.

Oh dear,so you prefer watching cropped films then,rather than in their original composition?

[brian s]

Jennifer

Most of the black border thing is an attempt to give stuff a film feel. This goes back donkeys years. Most TV programmes were made in 4/3 and are now mainly 16/9. Made for cinema films are in many ratios hence the black borders on many when they're shown in their correct ratio. Producers have latched on to this. They think the borders give their ads, pop video or whatever a glossy film feel.

Already mentioned is the 14/9 compromise for 16/9 material to be shown on a 4/3 TV. They cut the left and right edges off and put a slight border so you still get a slight widescreen effect. Some channels and even some DVDs still do this. It's a right pain for anyone with a widescreen TV which doesn't have a 14/9 setting. I wish they'd put out all 16/9 stuff in 16/9.

All the best
Bri

[CLH]

Originally Posted by jennifer

Well here's a clip from the build up to the Grand National on BBC 1 yesterday. It is neither an ad NOR a trailer. The bar at the bottom is my Humax PVR status.

This lasted 30 seconds and was sometimes in B&W but the main programme was all full screen.

Perhaps I've been paying insufficient attention to ads!

Seriously, virtually every TV programme I watch, on the same equipment as you, is fine. If it has black bars it's because it's meant to.

[jennifer]

OK then - try this - I have not seen WHITE bars like this before - shown on tonight's Labour PPB BBC1..........

JH

[brian s]

Originally Posted by jennifer

OK then - try this - I have not seen WHITE bars like this before - shown on tonight's Labour PPB BBC1..........

JH

Never seen white bars before. Maybe black bars are too sexy for Gordon.

All the best
Bri

[nwgarratt]

No idea why you have white bars. I got full screen on my TV for that programme. Make sure everything is set to 16:9 (or sometimes called wide).

[Matt_C]

Seems to me that many ads and trailers now appear to be "2.35:1" aspect ratio - ie, so that on a 16:9 TV, they have black bars top and bottom - like a film. I reckon this is mostly down to the fact that advertisers, and broadcasters alike, think it looks cool...

Interestingly, the attached pic on the first page - the no win no fee ad - is actually a 4:3 image, with the "picture" part being 16:9 letterbox style, and wording in the black bands top and bottom. The new Citroen C5 ad tho, is a perfect example of new advertising - 16:9 a/r picture, but with the added bars to make it look like a theatrical film. This may be down to the ad also being shown in cinema's, but I think it's just cos advertisers and braodcasters think it looks cool and trendy!

Going back to what people mention about ch4 - the one thing I liked about Ch4, was that even a few years ago when I used to watch analogue RF TV, ch4 would, more often than not, show a film in 16:9 OAR, and instead of sticking it in a 4:3 frame with bars top and bottom, I found that my 28" Widescreen CRT would actually switch it's display to 16:9 - provided the TV was set to auto format... Which I thought was pretty cool!

[nwgarratt]

Five US just had a advert in what looked like 2.35:1. It obviously looked like it was done for artistic reasons. It was the Kit Kat ad with lots of photographers.

[Shaun666]

Originally Posted by jennifer

OK then - try this - I have not seen WHITE bars like this before - shown on tonight's Labour PPB BBC1..........

JH

Well that's just racist !