[pattyg]

I read in a magazine that the Masters was to be in HD this year.

If so which channel will it be on? Surely it must be BBC HD as they have exclusive rights but do they ever show sport on that channel?

[C225]

They showed it on bbcHD last year so i assume they will be again but with there current selection of sport ie non exsistent hd football who knows.

[mossesque]

It was on BBCHD last year, so hopefully again this.

[metalhead72]

Originally Posted by mossesque

It was on BBCHD last year, so hopefully again this.

[spice2019]

Yeah, last year was in HD on BBCHD.

This year who knows as the Beeb have very little HD content on offer.

It should be in the planner by now, I'll check tonight

[derek500]

Originally Posted by spice2019

Yeah, last year was in HD on BBCHD.

This year who knows as the Beeb have very little HD content on offer.

It should be in the planner by now, I'll check tonight

It doesn't start until April 10th. DigiGuide only goes up to March 28.

[thegaffer1]

The BBC has just announced some of Spring 2008's high definition highlights,

Plenty of high definition sport on offer, including:

Six Nations Rugby

Saturday 8 March, 14:00, Italy v Scotland
Saturday 15 March, 15:00, England v Ireland
Saturday 15 March, 17:00, Wales v France

US Masters Golf

Thursday 10 April: 2100 - 2400
Friday 11 April: 2100 - 2400
Saturday 12 April: 2030 - 2400
Sunday 13 April: 2030 - 2400

FA Cup semi-final

Saturday 5 May: starting 1200

[Woodywizz]

Cannot wait for this, it looked tremendous last year

[Slates71]

The Sky planner doesn't state that the golf is in HD. So does this means it only in SD or that the planner isn't correct?
In that case why is it even on teh HD channel ??

[bigcoralboy]

Strange checked my planner this morning the HD symbol was there in the banner. If its on BBC HD it will be in high def. Another point though is that each year the beeb show a preview show on a Weds before the main event normall around 7pm. This year its not on until bloody 11:30 what a pain in the backside and to add insult to injust its not on HD.

[kbfern]

It's showing up on Digiguide on BBC HD as from 9pm-midnight Thurs Fri Sat and 7.30pm - midnight on Sunday great for you golf enthusiasts but what about the rest of us.)

[Slates71]

Originally Posted by bigcoralboy

Strange checked my planner this morning the HD symbol was there in the banner. If its on BBC HD it will be in high def. Another point though is that each year the beeb show a preview show on a Weds before the main event normall around 7pm. This year its not on until bloody 11:30 what a pain in the backside and to add insult to injust its not on HD.

I'm having HD fitted Saturday morning and looked at the HD channel banner last night and it wasn't there.Maybe Sky have just updated it or maybe the info isn't updated on standard sky boxes. Anyway, great news. Never seen HD so can't wait for it

[BritanniaJaf]

The 3 ball tournament is on the BBC interactive option at 8pm tonight

[choddo2006]

So then

Very good quality picture

But God almighty, it's time the UK broadcasters found a way to handle 60Hz signals natively. Especially on HD channels, there's no excuse.

[Martin J.]

Originally Posted by choddo2006

But God almighty, it's time the UK broadcasters found a way to handle 60Hz signals natively. Especially on HD channels, there's no excuse.

The judder is terrible on some shots, and just like last year, horizontal stripes are causing havoc.

Sky's 60Hz conversions have been outstanding - Americian football, Nascar - so it's about time the BBC invested in some new gear.

[KeanosMagicHat]

It looks superb to me .... even down to the bark on the trees etc.

I'm not getting any "judder" here either.

It's lovely stuff, finally (post trial) BBC HD get something right !!!

[IanMerseyside]

No judder for me either. Fantastic picture quality

[choddo2006]

You ain't looking at it right Slow and zoom shots are lovely, anything with a quick pan or where a caddy walks away quickly, you watch the nasty judder on the edge of their white suits, and the names on their backs become unreadable as soon as they move

[Starburst]

Yep the judder is fairly blatant under certain conditions but then again there is a realtime framerate conversion going on so you can't expect perfection for this aspect of HD.

[KeanosMagicHat]

Originally Posted by choddo2006

You ain't looking at it right Slow and zoom shots are lovely, anything with a quick pan or where a caddy walks away quickly, you watch the nasty judder on the edge of their white suits, and the names on their backs become unreadable as soon as they move

Ok maybe a very slight blur (I'd call it) on a fast moving caddy's suit but that's being a bit picky I reckon.

Overall it's excellent.

Brandt Snedeker has just been interviewed and you could clearly see the texturing on his green shirt. The detailing is very good.


EDIT: Ok having watched a little longer, I've seen a few more instances but it's nothing that detracts too much from the overall presentation. I'm still impressed.

[richard plumb]

Originally Posted by choddo2006

So then

Very good quality picture

But God almighty, it's time the UK broadcasters found a way to handle 60Hz signals natively. Especially on HD channels, there's no excuse.

agree. Can skyHD technically accommodate 60Hz? As the HD ready spec requires support for 60Hz (at least I think it did), all TVs hooked up would handle it. Why wouldn't you want to watch something in the correct native format?

What happens when the BBC produces material on tape for export - does it look similarly bad in the US?

[Mike Groves]

Don't know what all the complaints are - can't see anything wrong with the PQ. Looks great to me. No judder, no "blocking", etc - just perfectly smooth motion and as sharp as HD should be.

Could it be that viewing equipment enters the equation?

[Starburst]

Originally Posted by Mike Groves

Don't know what all the complaints are - can't see anything wrong with the PQ. Looks great to me. No judder, no "blocking", etc - just perfectly smooth motion and as sharp as HD should be.

Could it be that viewing equipment enters the equation?

I don't think it's a complaint it's simply a fact that taking a US 60hz source for broadcast at 50hz in the UK especially in realtime will introduce conversion issues, no different to watching a 24fps HD media on a 50/60 display or watching NTSC on a UK telly.
I saw a little judder both on my TV fed from the SKY+HD and my PC monitor via my DVB sat card and I even saw sporadic black horizontal lines on both displays, again I suspect a conversion issue but the only reason I was watching the golf was after reading this thread and looking for problems


It may be that certain displays process the STB output in a way that can minimise this but who knows what the price is in other areas and again it's like 50hz flicker or audio sync, sometimes until it's pointed out you are blissfully unaware

[Stephen Neal]

Originally Posted by richard plumb

agree. Can skyHD technically accommodate 60Hz?

No idea what the receiver would do - but no broadcaster is going to run a channel that changes frame rate. The playout area has to have a fixed frame rate for all sorts of reasons - and watching a channel which changed framerate would be pretty unpleasant (you'd get all sorts of on-screen graphics and blank screens appearing on the frame rate change).

Imagine trying to mix from the 50Hz BBC HD ident to a 60Hz show - that would be "interesting"...

Also it would cause real problems for channels that are simulcast in 50Hz SD.

It isn't going to happen anytime soon - even if the receivers could cope with it - particularly as the same playout areas will be producing a channel that needs to be compatible with Freeview HD and freesat HD receivers as well.

As the HD ready spec requires support for 60Hz (at least I think it did), all TVs hooked up would handle it.

HD Ready mandates 480/60i, 480/60p, 720/60p and 1080/60i support - so yes 60Hz is part of the spec. It has to be as BluRay and HD-DVD players output 24fps content at 60i or 60p - and most BluRay and HD-DVD SD extras were 480/60 not 576/50.

Why wouldn't you want to watch something in the correct native format?

In an ideal world you would - but it isn't practical or feasible to run networks at multiple frame rates. If it were the US would broadcast 24p content in 24p not 60i or 60p as they have to.

What happens when the BBC produces material on tape for export - does it look similarly bad in the US?

Drama and documentary is normally shot at 25p (i.e. 25 frames per second progressive). This is usually slowed down to 24p for the US market - so shows run a bit longer, and the audio is slower (though pitch corrected) - but it means the picture quality is identical to that of a US show shot at 24p. (The same thing happens in reverse when the BBC show Damages, or C4 HD show Desperate Housewives. The US 24p stuff is sped up to 25p - so shows run shorter, the audio runs faster, but again is hopefully pitch corrected)

However for sport, and music (and some drama and documentary shot at 25p but delivered in 50i) a real-time conversion is applied - just as is happenin for the Golf. This has similar motion artefacts - though the newer converters - as being used for the Golf, are massive improvements on the earlier models.

You've got to feel sorry for the US - the 2000, 2004, 2008 and 2012 Olympics are all 50Hz - so for years they will be watching the Olympics standards converted, in both SD and HD.

[Martin J.]

Originally Posted by Stephen Neal

However for sport, and music (and some drama and documentary shot at 25p but delivered in 50i) a real-time conversion is applied - just as is happenin for the Golf. This has similar motion artefacts - though the newer converters - as being used for the Golf, are massive improvements on the earlier models.

Worth mentioning (again) that Sky's Superbowl HD coverage has been completely free of motion artefacts due to frame rate conversion, so it can be done. I seem to recall they used some custom Snell & Wilcox Alchemist Ph.C boxes.

The Masters golf has always suffered image problems, going back years (well before HD was on the table).

[sunderland]

well all i can say is picture quality is fantastic pitty about more talking going on than the golf itself

[Stephen Neal]

Originally Posted by Martin J.

Worth mentioning (again) that Sky's Superbowl HD coverage has been completely free of motion artefacts due to frame rate conversion, so it can be done. I seem to recall they used some custom Snell & Wilcox Alchemist Ph.C boxes.

It is overegging it to say "completely free". I watched on Sky HD and there were still motion artefacts. It was a good conversion - but it was still clearly a conversion - and American Football is not amazingly taxing for a converter (though US graphics can be).

The Alchemist HD is pretty much the standard HD converter this side of the pond AIUI - though the US market has some of the older, less competent, block matching Japanese models bought for the Athens Olympics.

The Masters golf has always suffered image problems, going back years (well before HD was on the table).

Golf is taxing for both conversion and compression schemes as the golf ball is a small object moving fast - and the camera often reframes very quickly - causing the background of shots to have content that moves a lot frame-by-frame - causing block-matching and other motion analysis techniques used in motion compensating converters and compression systems (like MPEG2 and H264) to fall to bits.

[Woodywizz]

Been away in Edinburgh for last couple of days, just checked and the banner for tonight does not say "HD"

[logiciel]

Originally Posted by Slates71

The Sky planner doesn't state that the golf is in HD. So does this means it only in SD or that the planner isn't correct?
In that case why is it even on the HD channel ??

So what's the answer to this question?

There were a lot of people watching a few people in silly clothes with sticks and balls walk round some grass and trees,
and that scenery did look good, but was it in HD?
What was the point of it anyway?
Rush show people doing only marginally more interesting things like sliding down mountains,
but their scenery is much more attractive, and their picture quality far better.

[Martin J.]

Originally Posted by Stephen Neal

Golf is taxing for both conversion and compression schemes as the golf ball is a small object moving fast - and the camera often reframes very quickly - causing the background of shots to have content that moves a lot frame-by-frame - causing block-matching and other motion analysis techniques used in motion compensating converters and compression systems (like MPEG2 and H264) to fall to bits.

No, you don't say.

Actually, I should have been more specific and said that the BBC's coverage of the Masters has always had more artefacts than any other golf on any other channel, including their own.