How come our American cousins seem to be making much better TV than us these days. The BBC has always been considered to make the best TV in the world, and I think the quality of the BBC is still very good but the programs from the States just seem to be so much better. Just have a look at some of these TV programs that have come out of the States in the last 10 years.

The Simpsons
The X Files
Buffy the Vampire Slayer
Angel
Six Feet Under
The Sopranos
Frasier
Friends
Sex in the City
Malcolm in the Middle
Futurama
24
Star Trek TNG
The West Wing

And many more that I can not remember. OK some of these are not so good today and American TV is still full of rubbish but we just get to see the good stuff but all in all American TV programs have good production value, good scripts, good acting and it just all comes together to make damn fine TV.

So what has gone wrong over here, is it the under investment in the UK film industry so we are not producing as many talented writers, directors, actors as the American's or have we just forgotten how to make decent TV. I want to watch more British TV programs but I just seem to end up watching U.S. TV all the time and I am worried that I will soon speak in an American accent and eating McDonalds all the time. Please help and prove me wrong by telling me all the great British TV that I am missing.

[Kevo]

Not just TV, but films and music too.

It's all down to $$$$££££££ !

[gringottsdirect]

Originally posted by Ian Cox
I will soon speak in an American accent and eating McDonalds all the time. Please help and prove me wrong by telling me all the great British TV that I am missing.

Eating McDonalds all the time, yuk !
Blue Planet and other nature / science / history specials are the best in the world.

Originally posted by Ian Cox
Buffy the Vampire Slayer
Angel

That's a bit unfair as the Brits make some good kids programmes too.

[Garrett]

What I want to know is why it is hardly ever shown at a reasonable time on the BBC1 and ITV the last time I think I saw an American series on ITV at a reasonable time was LA Law which was hugely popular. And I cannot remember the last time I saw a mini series on either, was it V. Most of the time it is made up of reality programs, and makeovers.
What happened to all those classic series that are now coming out on DVD, The Prisoner, The Avengers etc why do we not make them any more.

[dc007]

The American TV networks are seemingly prepared to pay mega bucks to actors for the top programmes.

Case in point, the Friends cast and Kasey Grammar in Frasier get something in the region of $1m PER EPISODE !

I don't know what our top TV actors get (the likes of David Jason, etc), but it's nothing approaching that sort of wedge.

American TV can afford to keep real talent, whereas most UK talent goes over to the movies as soon as it can ... or, like Jane Leeves, joins the cast of an American show !

Thats just my idea, anyway... !

[ReTrO]

There's a hell of a lot of junk on American TV also.

Good job we don't get all that!

I gotta agree. When I lived in the States, there were a couple of shows that I watched regularly (mostly on HBO), and everything else was absolutely dire. IMO, British shows are much better, across the board, with more attention to detail, better acting, and more believable characters. And nobody does comedy like the Brits.

Also remember that there are quite a few channels in the States producing a full lineup of their own shows every year. Even with 98% of the stuff they put on the air being offal, the chances of them getting lucky on a few shows are higher than over here.

The American TV networks are seemingly prepared to pay mega bucks to actors for the top programmes.

That's in part because they show about 10 minutes of advertising for every half hour of programming. (another thing to be thankful we don't get)

But, regardless of what you like, be glad you don't have to rely on American news! See, it could be worse.

American TV production values/budgets are higher at the top end because the highest rated/best shows command the biggest advertising revenues.

Pretty much simple as that.

Originally posted by ReTrO
There's a hell of a lot of junk on American TV also.

Good job we don't get all that!

We do, it's on Bravo

[Lex]

Plus, in the UK 'we' have different priorites... The BBC & ITV spend all their money on middle-aged/middle-class programming > eg costume dramas, murder mysteries in sleepy counrty villages etc etc
The BBC & ITV obviously do not believe in programming for Twenty-Somethings. They make absolutely no sci-fi type shows, and as Garrett has pointed out even the imports are just chucked into off-peak time-slots without much thought.

Originally posted by Lex
Plus, in the UK 'we' have different priorites... The BBC & ITV spend all their money on middle-aged/middle-class programming > eg costume dramas, murder mysteries in sleepy counrty villages etc etc

Very true. And these types of shows are aimed squarely at middle England... the very people who watch TV on Friday/Saturday/Sunday evenings where the ratings war is at it's peak. In the UK, Soaps look after the ratings mid-week and are actually made with pretty much the same audience in mind.

Also, the TV industry in the UK is primarily made up of arts and media students plus ex-theatre types.

In the States the TV industry is made up of people either looking to progress to, working in, or on their way out of the movie industry. Many of the UK people who do have ambitions to make it into the film industry actually move to the US to make TV

The distinct differences in the type of people, their vision and abilities and the money involved explains why the programme output is also so different.

All valid points so far and I know there is a lot of junk TV in America and we just get all the good stuff. But why has there been a change in America recently, they have always had more cash than us to make TV programs and the shows they turned out in the 80's were really dire, I am sure everyone remembers Dallas and Dynasty. Then all of a sudden out comes the X-Files, then the Simpson’s and it has just snowballed from there culminating at the moment with 24 which just gets better and better. Whereas we seem to of gone backwards, I only remember wanting to watch one British show last year and that was The Office everything else I could either take it or leave it.

So my original challenge is still on tell me of all the good British shows I am missing at the moment - are there any

Originally posted by Ian Cox
in the 80's were really dire, I am sure everyone remembers Dallas and Dynasty.

I thought Dallas & Dynasty were great! And what about Chips! and the Dukes of Hazzard

Originally posted by Alice
what about Chips! and the Dukes of Hazzard

Dunno about the Dukes of Hazzard but Chips is alive and well and moderating in a forum not far from here.

[Garrett]

Why the heck do they put good US programs on BBC2 as has been passed comments before i.e. major series like Band of Brothers hidden on BBC2 and ITV Saturday night output is a stay away night.

And in America they get to watch all these shows in HDTV

[Dapper Dan]

Which is alot cheaper to buy over there as well.

Originally posted by Lex
Plus, in the UK 'we' have different priorites... The BBC & ITV spend all their money on middle-aged/middle-class programming > eg costume dramas, murder mysteries in sleepy counrty villages etc etc
The BBC & ITV obviously do not believe in programming for Twenty-Somethings. They make absolutely no sci-fi type shows, and as Garrett has pointed out even the imports are just chucked into off-peak time-slots without much thought.

Actually this is completely untrue. All TV broadcasters, especially the commercial channels are desperate to attract younger audiences. The problem is they're pony at doing it. Hence the general "Dumbing down" of programmes. True Sunday night fare is pretty stayed rubbish, and often the big bucks are spent on Bodice rippers. But that is because it sells well abroad.
Some figures for you:

Avg Ep ER $14m

Avg Ep Casualty £400k-£450k
Avg Ep The Bill £200k - £250k
Avg Ep Eastenders £80k [Approx]
Avg Ep Crossroads £40k [This might have gone up after recent revamp]
Avg Ep Ultimate Force £800k

I guess Sci-Fi is low down on the list of priorities because Special Effects and stunts cost.

[Lex]

Originally posted by Len
Actually this is completely untrue.

You said it was "completely untrue" but offered no explanation as to why? Indeed you went on to agree that "big bucks are spent on Bodice rippers". I am confused?

I'll spell it out a bit more then...

You said:

in the UK 'we' have different priorites... The BBC & ITV spend all their money on middle-aged/middle-class programming > eg costume dramas, murder mysteries in sleepy counrty villages etc etc

I said:

True Sunday night fare is pretty stayed rubbish, and often the big bucks are spent on Bodice rippers. But that is because it sells well abroad.

That's one night of the week. The vast majority of Drama output is now aimed at Twenty-somethings. It's a fact... you can argue it... but that's straight form the horses mouths at both Network Centre and the BBC. They are chasing predominantly "Young Female" audiences. Hence we have so much soaps in the schedules. Then there's the proliferation of so bad it's good TV.

So it's untrue because their priorities are the Twenty-somethings... They're just not making a very good job of it.

[gringottsdirect]

Usually I flee when Cold Feet turns up, but curious to see what they did in Portmeirion, I cringed through simpleton, melodramatic, plodding, soap-like crud for what seemed like an age.
Absolute stinker of a show, but of course my mother-in-law loves it

I guess my assumption was right then, there are no decent British TV programs just endless amounts of reality/fly on the wall shows and soaps. I guess I am going to have carry on with the quality shows the Yanks are producing at the moment but it is a shame that we have fallen so behind them

How come our American cousins seem to be making much better TV than us these days?

Writing, writing, and writing. ER didn't cost $14 million for the first episode, it costs that now it is successful. If the Sopranos was written here it would be about an East End gangster, star an ex Soap actor and be 90% about his wife's affair with a stranger who he doesn't like but turns out to be the adoptive parent of his half brother.

[Setenza]

US TV better than the UK?

I refer my learned colleagues to "Will & Grace" & "When Magicians Turn Bad"

Originally posted by SimonG
If the Sopranos was written here it would star an ex Soap actor

Both BBC and ITV do like to pick their drama stars from a tiny pool of ex soap talent and if you don't like Sarah Lancashire, Robson Greene or the Phil Mitchell bloke, that's half of the home produced drama out of the window

Originally posted by SimonG
How come our American cousins seem to be making much better TV than us these days?

Writing, writing, and writing. ER didn't cost $14 million for the first episode, it costs that now it is successful. If the Sopranos was written here it would be about an East End gangster, star an ex Soap actor and be 90% about his wife's affair with a stranger who he doesn't like but turns out to be the adoptive parent of his half brother.

Actualy I'd say it's casting, casting, casting. As is said elsewhere it's deeply unhalthy casting ex-soap stars in everything. And as an example look at quality programmes such as "The Vice" same writers as on other programmes just better cast and therefore slightly higher production values.

I think it's a bit of a myth that American series are better written. Your average episode of X Files is no better than a rickety Dr Who, at times I've cringed at the dialogue. But if it looks good then we proably assume it is good.

It also may surprise some people but an Ex- Soldier Soldier writer went over to the US became a writer and eventually a producer on the programme and is now responsible for Red Caps. Did he suddenly become a better writer for the period he was in the US? No.

Actually the reason our telly is so crap is because of the system at BBC and ITV that means only a handfull of power hungry knobs get to decide what we might like to watch.

Casting, casting, casting is what Hollywood/agents WANT you to think.

How did Friends become a hit? It sure aint their acting ability. ER, dear old George wasn't exactly Mr Thespian. The Shield, CSI, all hits becase of writing. The example of the Vrit writer, he didn't become better, but I bet he had ten times the support, editing, a co-writing talent that he would have here.

I know style CAN overcome substance (see G. Lucas career) but that is usually expensive and hard to maintain.

The annoying thing is we CAN do it. Look at Buried. Two sets, a few jobbing actors and as a first series it was excellent.

P.S. Don't knock the X Files story lines, they stole the whole of season one from my favourite B Movies!

[spidermanalf]

Sky One especialy thinks US programmes are lots better than UK shows, and that we we want to watch them again and again and again and again..........

[PoochJD]

Hi Folks,

This old debate, is a tad pointless, only because British TV can't compete on the same terms as US TV, either in script quality, casting or directing, let alone financially.

The problem I see, is that British TV doesn't liek to do anything daring or original anymore! As such, all you get are regurgitated material starring soap-stars, and/or ex-soap stars!

Not since "Drop The Dead Donkey" has there been a really, really great topical comedy show! Not since "Cracker" has there been a superbly acted, and brilliantly written crime drama!

Until Britain does better, I will keep watching US material like "24", "The Sopranos", "OZ", "CSI: Crime Scene Investigations", "Buffy", "NYPD Blue", "Law And Order: Special Victims Unit", "Jeremiah" et al.

As for Channel Four's "Buried", well that was a total rip-off of "OZ"- outright! There is simply a lack of originality, and a complete reliance on dumbing down of TV shows that only your average "Sun" reader is going to enjoy!

Pooch