Signing for the deaf

[Ron240]

I set my PVR to record Queen Of The Dammed late last night on ITV1(STV to be precise). I have never seen it before,but despite the bad reviews it received,i thought i would give it a go.
I was checking the recording this morning...and was horrified to see there was a guy on screen,bottom right corner,signing for the deaf. I fast forwarded through the whole film and he was there for the duration!
What the hell was this for?? It has completely ruined my recording,and i will not be watching it now.

Did anybody else notice this,or have experience of it ever happening?

Curiously enough....i was also recording the film that was on directly after it - Quatermass And The Pit....and that was absolutely fine,im glad to say.

[Starburst]

Broadcasters have to supply a certain amount of content with sign language, obviously as not to annoy the primetime audience they tend to lump all this signed content into the wee hours which really means it's intended audience really need a recording device.

The EPG on SKY does indicate when a programme has sign language (SL), not entirely sure about the Freeview or VM EPG's.
The movie has been on TV before which is perhaps why the late night screening and use of SL, a premiere would not be treated in the same manner.

[Pincho Paxton]

Originally Posted by Ron240

I set my PVR to record Queen Of The Dammed late last night on ITV1(STV to be precise). I have never seen it before,but despite the bad reviews it received,i thought i would give it a go.
I was checking the recording this morning...and was horrified to see there was a guy on screen,bottom right corner,signing for the deaf. I fast forwarded through the whole film and he was there for the duration!
What the hell was this for?? It has completely ruined my recording,and i will not be watching it now.

Did anybody else notice this,or have experience of it ever happening?

Curiously enough....i was also recording the film that was on directly after it - Quatermass And The Pit....and that was absolutely fine,im glad to say.

Well, I was waiting for Quatermass.. (Which really needs a remake!!!), and I saw the Sign Language before it. The thing that was perplexing me was that the signer was wearing a bright pink shirt! Now, if I was deaf, and wanted to watch a Vampire Horror I would hope (seriously) that the signer would dress for the part. He should dress as a vampire!!!

[kemp]

I haven't experienced any such thing but i think what stardust is saying might be true..

[Ron240]

Originally Posted by Starburst

Broadcasters have to supply a certain amount of content with sign language, obviously as not to annoy the primetime audience they tend to lump all this signed content into the wee hours.

Yes...i could certainly believe that,but its just a pity i found it out in this manner.
I have seen this signing on the Hollyoaks omnibus on Sunday afternoon,but this is the first time i have personally seen it at night.

My Freeview EPG does not give this information as far as i am aware,but i will certainly pay special attention for it in future.

Originally Posted by Pincho Paxton

Well, I was waiting for Quatermass.. (Which really needs a remake!!!), and I saw the Sign Language before it. The thing that was perplexing me was that the signer was wearing a bright pink shirt! Now, if I was deaf, and wanted to watch a Vampire Horror I would hope (seriously) that the signer would dress for the part. He should dress as a vampire!!!

yeah,he did kind of stick out like a sore thumb...so you will understand perfectly why it made it unwatchable for me.

Yep...would love to see an up to date remake of that particular Quatermass.

[DVD-Man]

Queen of the Damned is awful Ron, thank the Signer for sparing you the horror!

Liam

[Ron240]

Originally Posted by DVD-Man

thank the Signer for sparing you the horror!

Doubly so then Liam.

Like i said,i had heard it wasnt up to much,so i wont be making any effort to go looking for it now.

[nwgarratt]

I thought it would be possible to have the signing as interactive. I turn all interactive off on my PVR's so I don't get any of the "push the red button" rubbish in the corner. It does mean I don't get digital teletext but I can turn it on for the few minutes I use it.

[Ron240]

Originally Posted by nwgarratt

I thought it would be possible to have the signing as interactive.

I would have thought that myself...but you cannot seem to turn off the guy in the corner unfortunately.

[Starburst]

Originally Posted by nwgarratt

I thought it would be possible to have the signing as interactive. I turn all interactive off on my PVR's so I don't get any of the "push the red button" rubbish in the corner. It does mean I don't get digital teletext but I can turn it on for the few minutes I use it.

The graphics used for interactive stuff don't have the resolution to create something of the required complexity nor does any STB have the processing power to do so I suspect. The obvious solution would be to have a secondary data stream which would then be PIP but that's impossible for a single tuner satellite box (well not impossible buy impractical) but given the bandwidth up in orbit why the major UK broadcasters don't have at least one dedicated signed channel should be the question.
It's not as if they restrain themselves with time shifted channels is it?

[Goooner]

Like others, I can see no reason for not having this accesible via the red button, if they can have half a doxen different feeds availble on Sky for football, why not one with SL.

Failing that, if it's Government legislation, then why not set up one dedicate channel, where a slection of programmes from all the different broadcasters are shown with SL?

[Starburst]

Originally Posted by Goooner

Like others, I can see no reason for not having this accesible via the red button, if they can have half a doxen different feeds availble on Sky for football, why not one with SL.

Failing that, if it's Government legislation, then why not set up one dedicate channel, where a slection of programmes from all the different broadcasters are shown with SL?

Only a handful of channels would be able to do this since in the footy example a whole transponder is used by a single broadcaster which allows to switch between multipule feeds. It would very difficult for the current single tuner STB to display two feeds one PIP from the same transponder (the firmware for footy first and F1+ before that is very specific) and impossible from a different transponder. Economies of scale would also impact due to many transponders having upto 8 channels each of which could need it's own SL video stream and therefore you would probably have to sacrifice a couple of the channels to make room for the SL data.
Now if the STB was able to generate in real time a high res graphic then it would be a doodle to supple the SL data but we are years away from a STB which could generate the level of graphics to rival a real person.


It would far more practical for the BBC, ITV, CH4 and Five each to have a national SL channel on Satellite and Cable, perhaps even Freeview. If this was the case then pressure from the relevant groups would convince SKY, VM and some of the other large broadcasters to follow suit.

[Torpedo]

Originally Posted by Ron240

I was checking the recording this morning...and was horrified to see there was a guy on screen,bottom right corner,signing for the deaf. I fast forwarded through the whole film and he was there for the duration!

Sorry, but this bit made me laugh
Why would they turn it off halfway thru?
It would be like turning the sound off halfway thru a film.

And yes, I've seen it done loads of times, late at night. And yes it's annoying.

[PoochJD]

Hi,

I agree that having many late-night shows/films with the HOH (Hard Of Hearing/Sign Language) person is annoying for those of us who don't require such a service, but the fact does remain that a significant amount of the population are deaf or HOH, and their ability to view TV is limited to a very small, niche set of programmes at stupid hours of the night!

Yes, I appreciate the fact that most films and shows have subtitling, but not all deaf/HOH want them, and not all deaf/HOH viewers like them, preferring a sign-language reader instead.

In an ideal scenario, all programmes would be transmitted once, in plain formats, and a second transmission would be repeated, but have sign-language. Alternatively, all shows would have an optional red-button signing person on every show/movie transmitted, but the technology to apply that is both expensive and time consuming. And don't forget, there's not that many people who are capable of real-time signing, available for TV channels to choose from in the first place. It's not just about someone being able to sign effectively, but about being able to explain everything else (sound effects, who is speaking if the person is off-camera or out-of-sight, movements, etc) and being able to do this very quickly and accurately!

On top of this, unlike English langauge, where one word means the same in every part of the UK, Sign Language has regional and localised "dialects". So one hand gesture in sign-language that may mean "river" or "walking fast" may mean nothing at all or something very different to a viewer in another part of the country! Even simple things like describing the weather, your name et al can be quite complex for Sign Language users to actually sign! Try watching a single episode of a modern US drama show, like for example "The West Wing" which is exceedingly dialogue-heavy, and then look at the difference between the Teletext subtitles, and what the characters actually say. Now imagine, having to accurately sign the dialogue as well. It's an exhausting and painstaking process, that has to be pre-recorded for the most part, because signing live causes an inordinate amount of problems. (Look at a subtitled or signed news bulletin, and you'll see what I mean.)

With many DVD's still NOT including English subtitles on DVD's (which is obscene, bearing in mind the fairly minimal amount of space that is needed to be put aside on a standard DVD disc), TV channels try to offer some signing shows, but these are very few and far between. Most of the time, it's for stuff that has aired once, or sometimes even twice, previously, untainted.

Ultimately, all I can say is, that no matter how irritated non-deaf and non-HOH viewers may be about having some shows/movies ruined by the "little man/woman in the corner waaving their hands about", at least you get to see 99% of all other TV untainted, at proper times of the day. If you couldn't read subtitles, and needed Signed programmes, you'd be missing out on almost every show on TV because your needs weren't being catered for!

Hope that helps you all understand why Sign Language TV is the way it is.


Pooch

[Garrett]

I remember them showing the first screenings of some of the Dead Zone and I think I commented on it at the time why was it not subtitled. Don’t know if modern HD recorders have the facility but my old video had the option of bringing up subtitles on recorded material.

As Pooch infers I rather have good hearing and have to put up with the occasional man in the corner than be on the deaf side. Mind you it wouldn’t be bad if the had a fit bird doing the signing, but then nobody would watch the film at all.

As to Queen Of The Dammed I did not mind it, Id neither say it’s a great film or one of the worst made it worth a look sometime to make your own mind up.