AVForums

Our philosophy in our forums, reviews, podcasts and feature videos is to promote audio and visual excellence by gathering and sharing the best information and resources available.

Help

To begin please visit our help section »

Not a Member Yet?

It only takes a minute to start enjoying the benefits of AVForums membership, and it's free!

Member Log in

The Shield season 3 onwards?

Post Reply
Old 22-11-2006, 10:50 PM   #1
New Member
Join Date: Nov 2006
Experience Points:
3,536, Level: 13
Points: 3,536, Level: 13 Points: 3,536, Level: 13 Points: 3,536, Level: 13
Activity: 0%
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
Thanks: Gave 0, Got 0
Posts: 6
Question The Shield season 3 onwards?

Anyone know the cheapest place to get these on R1 as it looks like a R2 release wont be happening.

thanks
  Quote
Old 22-11-2006, 11:50 PM   #2
Distinguished Member
Join Date: Jun 2005
Experience Points:
39,746, Level: 48
Points: 39,746, Level: 48 Points: 39,746, Level: 48 Points: 39,746, Level: 48
Activity: 0%
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
Thanks: Gave 276, Got 1,589
Posts: 10,051
Re: The Shield season 3 onwards?

DVD Pacific are the cheapest at £23 Delivered Here and In my experience are very customs friendly so you shouldnt get charged customs.

At the moment DeepDiscountDVD have a 20% sale (until tomorrow, discount code DD1123) and it make it £21.53 and should be Ok for customs, Here

These seem yo be the best deals at the moment
  Quote
Old 22-11-2006, 11:55 PM   #3
Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Experience Points:
3,345, Level: 13
Points: 3,345, Level: 13 Points: 3,345, Level: 13 Points: 3,345, Level: 13
Activity: 0%
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
Thanks: Gave 45, Got 41
Posts: 510
Re: The Shield season 3 onwards?

I'm confused, my uk versions of seasons 1 and 2 are presented in what I believe was the broadcast format, 1.78:1.

Yet the American releases are 1.33:1, it doesn't seem right that we're getting the better versions.


Any idea what the E.T.A of season 3 is ?
  Quote
Old 24-11-2006, 11:55 PM   #4
west
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: The Shield season 3 onwards?

I'm waiting for W/S R2 UK dvds for S3 onwards too
  Quote
Old 25-11-2006, 4:20 PM   #5
Conspicuous Member
 
MrFurious's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Cardigan Wales
Experience Points:
25,652, Level: 39
Points: 25,652, Level: 39 Points: 25,652, Level: 39 Points: 25,652, Level: 39
Activity: 8.0%
Activity: 8.0% Activity: 8.0% Activity: 8.0%
Thanks: Gave 616, Got 391
Posts: 9,828
Re: The Shield season 3 onwards?

excellent this,best prog on tv ever imo, cant wait for the rest of this season to air
  Quote
Old 28-11-2006, 12:33 PM   #6
Member
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: London
Experience Points:
6,967, Level: 19
Points: 6,967, Level: 19 Points: 6,967, Level: 19 Points: 6,967, Level: 19
Activity: 4.9%
Activity: 4.9% Activity: 4.9% Activity: 4.9%
Thanks: Gave 160, Got 73
Posts: 1,202
Re: The Shield season 3 onwards?

brilliant brilliant brilliant !

sorry not much help but I love The Sheild only just slightly behind 24 as my fav programme ever .
  Quote
Old 28-11-2006, 1:31 PM   #7
Member
 
rhythmslave's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2005
Experience Points:
2,611, Level: 11
Points: 2,611, Level: 11 Points: 2,611, Level: 11 Points: 2,611, Level: 11
Activity: 0.7%
Activity: 0.7% Activity: 0.7% Activity: 0.7%
Thanks: Gave 34, Got 63
Posts: 260
Re: The Shield season 3 onwards?

Amazon have season 4 on offer at the moment at $29.97. With shipping it comes in under £20.

http://www.amazon.com/Shield-Complet...?ie=UTF8&s=dvd

They have season 3 at $34.47, but this is slightly over the £18 vat limit. It all depends on what mood the Customs man is in.

http://www.amazon.com/Shield-Complet...?ie=UTF8&s=dvd
  Quote
Old 22-02-2007, 8:49 PM   #8
Member
 
h0l1yw0od's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2000
Experience Points:
6,194, Level: 18
Points: 6,194, Level: 18 Points: 6,194, Level: 18 Points: 6,194, Level: 18
Activity: 0.4%
Activity: 0.4% Activity: 0.4% Activity: 0.4%
Thanks: Gave 19, Got 13
Posts: 475
Cool Re: The Shield season 3 onwards?

Just seen on EzDVD that they're getting season 3 in April. As Oz is Pal as well i looked a little deeper and have read a comment on Wikipedia that Season 3 will be coming out on region 2 as well!!! Whoop-de-doo!!!!

Be nice to get an explanation as to why its been sooooo freakin' long.

Hope i'm not 30 before season 4 comes out!
  Quote
Old 22-02-2007, 9:32 PM   #9
Prominent Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Experience Points:
9,606, Level: 23
Points: 9,606, Level: 23 Points: 9,606, Level: 23 Points: 9,606, Level: 23
Activity: 13.9%
Activity: 13.9% Activity: 13.9% Activity: 13.9%
Thanks: Gave 526, Got 392
Posts: 4,739
Re: The Shield season 3 onwards?

Quote:
Originally Posted by crunchman View Post
I'm confused, my uk versions of seasons 1 and 2 are presented in what I believe was the broadcast format, 1.78:1.

Yet the American releases are 1.33:1, it doesn't seem right that we're getting the better versions.


Any idea what the E.T.A of season 3 is ?
Not sure how much you care about original aspect ratios but the creator of The Shield intends it to be seen at 1.33, which is how it's broadcast in the States and released on DVD. The format used on the Channel 5 broadcasts and the two DVD box sets is not a better version - it's pandering to those who insist that the picture "fills their screens".
  Quote
Old 22-02-2007, 11:19 PM   #10
Member
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: London
Experience Points:
6,967, Level: 19
Points: 6,967, Level: 19 Points: 6,967, Level: 19 Points: 6,967, Level: 19
Activity: 4.9%
Activity: 4.9% Activity: 4.9% Activity: 4.9%
Thanks: Gave 160, Got 73
Posts: 1,202
Re: The Shield season 3 onwards?

Love the shield started a few threads on it so i wont bang on but just a heads up to say if anyone didnt know Hallmark channel has been showing The sheild series 3 at 10 pm . I think its just finished it but keep an eye out as it may repeat or show the next series.
  Quote
Old 22-02-2007, 11:42 PM   #11
Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Experience Points:
3,345, Level: 13
Points: 3,345, Level: 13 Points: 3,345, Level: 13 Points: 3,345, Level: 13
Activity: 0%
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
Thanks: Gave 45, Got 41
Posts: 510
Re: The Shield season 3 onwards?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bosque View Post
Not sure how much you care about original aspect ratios but the creator of The Shield intends it to be seen at 1.33, which is how it's broadcast in the States and released on DVD. The format used on the Channel 5 broadcasts and the two DVD box sets is not a better version - it's pandering to those who insist that the picture "fills their screens".
Yeah realized that after doing a bit more research into the region 1 releases.

Fortunately I now own seasons 1-4 on region 1
  Quote
Old 23-02-2007, 1:07 PM   #12
Conspicuous Member
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Norwich
Experience Points:
37,467, Level: 47
Points: 37,467, Level: 47 Points: 37,467, Level: 47 Points: 37,467, Level: 47
Activity: 25.0%
Activity: 25.0% Activity: 25.0% Activity: 25.0%
Thanks: Gave 4,674, Got 1,523
Posts: 9,580
Thumbs up Re: The Shield season 3 onwards?

Hi,

I can officially confirm that Sony will NOW be releasing Seasons 3 and 4 of "The Shield" on Region 2 DVD (UK) this year, and will then be releasing Seasons 5 and 6 next year as well.

All UK versions will be anamorphic 1.78:1 widescreen versions, with a tiny sprinkling of extras.

The Season 3 and 4 sets should be out around June and October 2007 respectively, for about £27-99 each (RRP).

Sony haven't announced why there has been a delay, but they have said that "The Shield" WILL DEFINITELY BE COMING OUT in the UK on DVD.




Pooch
  Quote
Thanks from:
BIGRED (23-02-2007), h0l1yw0od (25-02-2007)
Old 24-02-2007, 9:31 PM   #13
Prominent Member
 
samjpullen's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Keighley, West Yorks
Experience Points:
10,382, Level: 24
Points: 10,382, Level: 24 Points: 10,382, Level: 24 Points: 10,382, Level: 24
Activity: 0%
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
Blog Entries: 2
Thanks: Gave 122, Got 145
Posts: 3,538
Re: The Shield season 3 onwards?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bosque View Post
Not sure how much you care about original aspect ratios but the creator of The Shield intends it to be seen at 1.33, which is how it's broadcast in the States and released on DVD. The format used on the Channel 5 broadcasts and the two DVD box sets is not a better version - it's pandering to those who insist that the picture "fills their screens".
I don't care what the Creator wants it to look like, i have had both regions and the R2 looks better, not just because it *fills the screen*, it looks alot better at 1.78:1 to me
  Quote
Old 24-02-2007, 10:47 PM   #14
Prominent Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Experience Points:
9,606, Level: 23
Points: 9,606, Level: 23 Points: 9,606, Level: 23 Points: 9,606, Level: 23
Activity: 13.9%
Activity: 13.9% Activity: 13.9% Activity: 13.9%
Thanks: Gave 526, Got 392
Posts: 4,739
Re: The Shield season 3 onwards?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MDX View Post
I don't care what the Creator wants it to look like, i have had both regions and the R2 looks better, not just because it *fills the screen*, it looks alot better at 1.78:1 to me
You obviously know better than the show's creator how it should be shown. Well done
  Quote
Old 25-02-2007, 1:50 PM   #15
Conspicuous Member
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Norwich
Experience Points:
37,467, Level: 47
Points: 37,467, Level: 47 Points: 37,467, Level: 47 Points: 37,467, Level: 47
Activity: 25.0%
Activity: 25.0% Activity: 25.0% Activity: 25.0%
Thanks: Gave 4,674, Got 1,523
Posts: 9,580
Exclamation Re: The Shield season 3 onwards?

Bosque,

I don't mean to sound snooty, but your response to MDX's comments, come across as rather rude.

I have seen both the widescreen and fullscreen versions of some "The Shield" episodes, and I have to agree with MDX. Simply put, the picture appears to look more natural, and better composed in widescreen, than it does in 4:3. Also, I think you gain a tiny fraction more image at the sides, although you loose a fraction of the image at the top/bottom. But, having said that, in crowded scenes, where the camera has a lot of people in one, (specifically in scenes at "The Barn"), it seems more sensible to have a widescreen format, than a 4:3 version which looks cramped.

And, likewise, irrespective of what the show's creator may have oriignally intended, if their claim held any weight, they wouldn't have allowed widescreen versions to be released in European territories. Almost every new show made, in the last few years, has had to be made with 16:9 encoding being borne in mind by the show's production crews. So, even if a show does end-up being aired in 4:3, it should still be intended to be made suitable for 16:9 widescreen monitors/screens.


Pooch
  Quote
Old 25-02-2007, 2:34 PM   #16
Prominent Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Experience Points:
9,606, Level: 23
Points: 9,606, Level: 23 Points: 9,606, Level: 23 Points: 9,606, Level: 23
Activity: 13.9%
Activity: 13.9% Activity: 13.9% Activity: 13.9%
Thanks: Gave 526, Got 392
Posts: 4,739
Re: The Shield season 3 onwards?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PoochJD View Post
Bosque,

I don't mean to sound snooty, but your response to MDX's comments, come across as rather rude.

I have seen both the widescreen and fullscreen versions of some "The Shield" episodes, and I have to agree with MDX. Simply put, the picture appears to look more natural, and better composed in widescreen, than it does in 4:3. Also, I think you gain a tiny fraction more image at the sides, although you loose a fraction of the image at the top/bottom. But, having said that, in crowded scenes, where the camera has a lot of people in one, (specifically in scenes at "The Barn"), it seems more sensible to have a widescreen format, than a 4:3 version which looks cramped.

And, likewise, irrespective of what the show's creator may have oriignally intended, if their claim held any weight, they wouldn't have allowed widescreen versions to be released in European territories. Almost every new show made, in the last few years, has had to be made with 16:9 encoding being borne in mind by the show's production crews. So, even if a show does end-up being aired in 4:3, it should still be intended to be made suitable for 16:9 widescreen monitors/screens.


Pooch
The Shield is shot in widescreen then edited to 4:3 in order to give it that tight, cramped, gritty feel that the show's creator, Shawn Ryan, believes suits the storylines and the overall tone of the show. The editing process also masks the mikes and other crew machinery that aren't meant to be seen but which creep through in the region 2 versions. It might look "good" on widescreen monitors because it fills the screen but you're not seeing it as the show's creator intended when you buy region 2 versions with the wrong aspect ratio.
  Quote
Old 08-03-2007, 4:33 PM   #17
Prominent Member
 
SeedyR's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2005
Experience Points:
13,609, Level: 28
Points: 13,609, Level: 28 Points: 13,609, Level: 28 Points: 13,609, Level: 28
Activity: 0.8%
Activity: 0.8% Activity: 0.8% Activity: 0.8%
Thanks: Gave 357, Got 478
Posts: 4,091
Re: The Shield season 3 onwards?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PoochJD View Post
Hi,

I can officially confirm that Sony will NOW be releasing Seasons 3 and 4 of "The Shield" on Region 2 DVD (UK) this year, and will then be releasing Seasons 5 and 6 next year as well.

All UK versions will be anamorphic 1.78:1 widescreen versions, with a tiny sprinkling of extras.

The Season 3 and 4 sets should be out around June and October 2007 respectively, for about £27-99 each (RRP).

Sony haven't announced why there has been a delay, but they have said that "The Shield" WILL DEFINITELY BE COMING OUT in the UK on DVD.




Pooch
Play.com have The Shield Season 3 listed for June 18 on Region 2 DVD. In their specs, it says 4:3 fullscreen, maybe this is wrong?
  Quote
Old 08-03-2007, 5:30 PM   #18
west
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: The Shield season 3 onwards?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Craigy Boy View Post
Play.com have The Shield Season 3 listed for June 18 on Region 2 DVD. In their specs, it says 4:3 fullscreen, maybe this is wrong?
I was going to post the same thing. Somebody please tell me they're not going to release The Shield in 4:3
  Quote
Old 09-03-2007, 9:10 PM   #19
Prominent Member
 
samjpullen's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Keighley, West Yorks
Experience Points:
10,382, Level: 24
Points: 10,382, Level: 24 Points: 10,382, Level: 24 Points: 10,382, Level: 24
Activity: 0%
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
Blog Entries: 2
Thanks: Gave 122, Got 145
Posts: 3,538
Re: The Shield season 3 onwards?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bosque View Post
The Shield is shot in widescreen then edited to 4:3 in order to give it that tight, cramped, gritty feel that the show's creator, Shawn Ryan, believes suits the storylines and the overall tone of the show. The editing process also masks the mikes and other crew machinery that aren't meant to be seen but which creep through in the region 2 versions. It might look "good" on widescreen monitors because it fills the screen but you're not seeing it as the show's creator intended when you buy region 2 versions with the wrong aspect ratio.
Sorry but I think what Pooch was saying it that he like me prefers the widescreen aspect of the show, sometimes I agree with the creator and sometimes I don't.

It doesn’t mean I am wrong in saying that the widescreen version looks better than what the creator wanted, its just I feel the show works better in widescreen than not, no one is in the right just as no one is correct.

It’s down to personal preference at the end of the day.

And by the way, I am not to happy with the way you came across in your reply to mine, I was just saying *I* prefer it in widescreen, regardless of what Mr Ryan intended it to be.

Its in no way disrespecting Mr Ryan because thats how he feels the show should work, I don't. But lets face it if everyone agreed with everyone then life would be very boring indeed.
  Quote
Old 10-03-2007, 12:06 PM   #20
Prominent Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Experience Points:
9,606, Level: 23
Points: 9,606, Level: 23 Points: 9,606, Level: 23 Points: 9,606, Level: 23
Activity: 13.9%
Activity: 13.9% Activity: 13.9% Activity: 13.9%
Thanks: Gave 526, Got 392
Posts: 4,739
Re: The Shield season 3 onwards?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MDX View Post
It doesn’t mean I am wrong in saying that the widescreen version looks better than what the creator wanted, its just I feel the show works better in widescreen than not, no one is in the right just as no one is correct.

It’s down to personal preference at the end of the day.
So, in your opinion, you feel you know better than the show's creator how it should be shown ? Actually there is a right way to watch any show and that is the way the creator intends it to be seen (he's told us that The Shield is shot in widescreen then edited to 4:3). Of course, anyone can zoom out the black bars if they don't like them on their screen, or twiddle with the contols to get rid of all that grain, or boost the colour if it's not bright enough for their liking. That just doesn't happen to be the way you're intended to see the show.
  Quote
Old 10-03-2007, 4:43 PM   #21
Prominent Member
 
samjpullen's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Keighley, West Yorks
Experience Points:
10,382, Level: 24
Points: 10,382, Level: 24 Points: 10,382, Level: 24 Points: 10,382, Level: 24
Activity: 0%
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
Blog Entries: 2
Thanks: Gave 122, Got 145
Posts: 3,538
Re: The Shield season 3 onwards?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bosque View Post
So, in your opinion, you feel you know better than the show's creator how it should be shown ? Actually there is a right way to watch any show and that is the way the creator intends it to be seen (he's told us that The Shield is shot in widescreen then edited to 4:3). Of course, anyone can zoom out the black bars if they don't like them on their screen, or twiddle with the contols to get rid of all that grain, or boost the colour if it's not bright enough for their liking. That just doesn't happen to be the way you're intended to see the show.
Yes and your now becoming an utter moron
  Quote
Old 10-03-2007, 5:30 PM   #22
Prominent Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Experience Points:
9,606, Level: 23
Points: 9,606, Level: 23 Points: 9,606, Level: 23 Points: 9,606, Level: 23
Activity: 13.9%
Activity: 13.9% Activity: 13.9% Activity: 13.9%
Thanks: Gave 526, Got 392
Posts: 4,739
Re: The Shield season 3 onwards?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MDX View Post
Yes and your now becoming an utter moron
Is that really the best response you can come up with ?
  Quote
Old 12-03-2007, 4:06 PM   #23
west
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: The Shield season 3 onwards?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bosque View Post
So, in your opinion, you feel you know better than the show's creator how it should be shown ? Actually there is a right way to watch any show and that is the way the creator intends it to be seen (he's told us that The Shield is shot in widescreen then edited to 4:3). Of course, anyone can zoom out the black bars if they don't like them on their screen, or twiddle with the contols to get rid of all that grain, or boost the colour if it's not bright enough for their liking. That just doesn't happen to be the way you're intended to see the show.
what are you on about ? zooming in on a 4:3 image to make it 16:9 ? I'm lost?


yes I also feel I know better than the show's creator. Anyway just because a creator of a particular show said it supposed to be full-screen it doesn't mean it is and looks better... I still maintain that Joss Whedon was also wrong in saying that Buffy is always as he intended it . That's why it looks so much better in widescreen, more cinematic.

Anyway Channel 5 showed the shield in wide screen and the first two seasons DVDs were widescreen there's no way I'm going to pay for 4:3 when I've watched it in widescreen.
  Quote
Old 12-03-2007, 6:03 PM   #24
Prominent Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Experience Points:
9,606, Level: 23
Points: 9,606, Level: 23 Points: 9,606, Level: 23 Points: 9,606, Level: 23
Activity: 13.9%
Activity: 13.9% Activity: 13.9% Activity: 13.9%
Thanks: Gave 526, Got 392
Posts: 4,739
Re: The Shield season 3 onwards?

Quote:
Originally Posted by west View Post
what are you on about ? zooming in on a 4:3 image to make it 16:9 ? I'm lost?
Are you telling me or asking me ? I'm confused with all the question marks, (assuming you actually know why they are placed at the end of your sentence).

You may not be aware that a lot of film fans fought a long battle to get the studios to respect film-makers' original aspect ratio (OAR), so seeing it dismissed by some of today's audiences gets on some peoples' nerves.
  Quote
Old 13-03-2007, 10:27 PM   #25
Prominent Member
 
samjpullen's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Keighley, West Yorks
Experience Points:
10,382, Level: 24
Points: 10,382, Level: 24 Points: 10,382, Level: 24 Points: 10,382, Level: 24
Activity: 0%
Activity: 0% Activity: 0% Activity: 0%
Blog Entries: 2
Thanks: Gave 122, Got 145
Posts: 3,538
Re: The Shield season 3 onwards?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bosque View Post
Are you telling me or asking me ? I'm confused with all the question marks, (assuming you actually know why they are placed at the end of your sentence).

You may not be aware that a lot of film fans fought a long battle to get the studios to respect film-makers' original aspect ratio (OAR), so seeing it dismissed by some of today's audiences gets on some peoples' nerves.
Good, its about personal opinions, i respect that Mr Ryan might have wanted it in 4:3 but i feel he is wrong and 16:9 looks alot better for a show like The Shield.

End of story.
  Quote
Old 14-03-2007, 11:19 AM   #26
Prominent Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Experience Points:
9,606, Level: 23
Points: 9,606, Level: 23 Points: 9,606, Level: 23 Points: 9,606, Level: 23
Activity: 13.9%
Activity: 13.9% Activity: 13.9% Activity: 13.9%
Thanks: Gave 526, Got 392
Posts: 4,739
Re: The Shield season 3 onwards?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MDX View Post
Good, its about personal opinions, i respect that Mr Ryan might have wanted it in 4:3 but i feel he is wrong and 16:9 looks alot better for a show like The Shield.
Agreed (about the personal opinions, not the apect ratio ). Curiously enough, in season 4 there was an episode of the US screenings which was filmed in widescreen: it was set mostly in The Barn and used loads of close-ups, so I'm not sure why they needed the wide format. Just ordered season 5 which is out on region 1 DVDs at the end of March.
  Quote
Old 16-03-2007, 3:40 PM   #27
west
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: The Shield season 3 onwards?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bosque View Post
Are you telling me or asking me ? I'm confused with all the question marks, (assuming you actually know why they are placed at the end of your sentence).
it was a question , a series of questions to understand your post.
  Quote
Old 16-03-2007, 4:20 PM   #28
Prominent Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Experience Points:
9,606, Level: 23
Points: 9,606, Level: 23 Points: 9,606, Level: 23 Points: 9,606, Level: 23
Activity: 13.9%
Activity: 13.9% Activity: 13.9% Activity: 13.9%
Thanks: Gave 526, Got 392
Posts: 4,739
Re: The Shield season 3 onwards?

Quote:
Originally Posted by west View Post
it was a question , a series of questions to understand your post.
So "I'm lost ?" was a question ? Perhaps you can suggest a suitable answer.
  Quote
Post Reply



Thread information and display options
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off