Collision - ITVHD

HDCriticalFan · 10-11-2009, 4:17 PM

I'm not normally given to berating broadcasters for poor picture quality (although I confess to venting my spleen on certain "arty" effects which result in field-dropping) ... but last night I watched "Collision" on ITVHD.

Now I rarely watch ITVHD, but I was immediately struck by the unimpressive HD quality. I would love to be able to record 103 and 10510 and do a back and forth comparison - but that can't be done.

So I soldiered on and got involved in the show.

Then, all to soon, the ad break came around. I was immediately struck by how much clearer the ads were - and I'm pretty sure that they were just upscaled SD !!!

Back to the show - soft again.

Don't get me wrong, they can do what they want on their channel, but why go to the trouble of making a show in HD (a rare occurrence on ITV) if you aren't going to showcase the higher resolution of HD

Regards

bighfishing · 10-11-2009, 9:22 PM

see what you mean, i just watched a bit of it to see what you were on about and i totally agree with you, i dont even think it is as good as the bbc's sd service, there's no way itv can call it hd.

derek500 · 10-11-2009, 9:51 PM

It's much better tonight.

tvdavid · 11-11-2009, 9:04 PM

Its not much better than the West country feed HD does not seem all that great lately.

tvdavid · 11-11-2009, 9:06 PM

Ive gone back to the SD feed seems very grainy

derek500 · 12-11-2009, 12:30 PM

As a point of interest Collision is filmed on 16mm, which is then transferred to HD for broadcast.

This is against the BBC's policy or we would see loads more shows like New Tricks, Spooks and Merlin in HD.

Personally, I would rather have this in HD than watching on ITV SW, which is my default 103.

HDCriticalFan · 12-11-2009, 4:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by derek500

As a point of interest Collision is filmed on 16mm, which is then transferred to HD for broadcast.

Oh, I see. That explains the "look". I'm not sure I see the point of using film for a TV show. This programme will never be shown in a cinema and they've simply created the need to convert it to a TV format. Do they shoot at 25 fps, or do they have to do some monkeying around to get 24fps into 50 fields ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by derek500

This is against the BBC's policy or we would see loads more shows like New Tricks, Spooks and Merlin in HD.

I wish the Beeb would ease up on their 16mm ban. I would welcome any improvement in Spooks, New Tricks (Life on Mars. Ashes to Ashes ?) as I can record the BBC even though I really don't need to (as there are no ads to skip). Much as I welcome even the smallest PQ improvement, it is simply not worth "clearing the decks" to watch Collision live on ITVHD (esp. as it goes out on five consecutive nights). I have fallen back to recording 103 and watching it at my convenience.

It got a lot better in Ep 2, didn't it !

Regards

pdoherty76 · 13-11-2009, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HDCriticalFan

I'm not normally given to berating broadcasters for poor picture quality (although I confess to venting my spleen on certain "arty" effects which result in field-dropping) ... but last night I watched "Collision" on ITVHD.

Now I rarely watch ITVHD, but I was immediately struck by the unimpressive HD quality. I would love to be able to record 103 and 10510 and do a back and forth comparison - but that can't be done.

So I soldiered on and got involved in the show.

Then, all to soon, the ad break came around. I was immediately struck by how much clearer the ads were - and I'm pretty sure that they were just upscaled SD !!!

Back to the show - soft again.

Don't get me wrong, they can do what they want on their channel, but why go to the trouble of making a show in HD (a rare occurrence on ITV) if you aren't going to showcase the higher resolution of HD

Regards

What are you complaining about? It is a free HD channel of which there are currently only 4. And it is actually meant to be freesat exclusive so you are lucky that sky tweaked their boxes to even let you recieve it.

ozzzy189 · 13-11-2009, 1:24 PM

At least it looks better than the sd broadcast, which isn't always true of bbchd.

HDCriticalFan · 13-11-2009, 2:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pdoherty76

What are you complaining about? It is a free HD channel of which there are currently only 4. And it is actually meant to be freesat exclusive so you are lucky that sky tweaked their boxes to even let you recieve it.

Er, I was complaining about the poor (even by ITVHD standards) picture quality. I have now found out that this is due, at least in part, to it being shot on 16mm film and converted to HD (something which the BBC do not consider to be up to broadcast standard for their HD service).

I concede that ITVHD is free and I am not "demanding my money back" ... but surely just because a service is cheap/free doesn't mean that we can't point out its shortcomings

I'm glad that I didn't point out that the only recurring programming on this "channel" in the entire week to Friday comprised two half-hour reality shows (Grimefighters and River Monsters) and Doc Martin. No doubt that would have really wound you up !

Regards

chrishull3 · 13-11-2009, 4:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by derek500

As a point of interest Collision is filmed on 16mm, which is then transferred to HD for broadcast.

This is against the BBC's policy or we would see loads more shows like New Tricks, Spooks and Merlin in HD.

Personally, I would rather have this in HD than watching on ITV SW, which is my default 103.

Interested to know where you found the 16mm info, i tried and failed to find specs on it, which site tells you this info, thanks.

pdoherty76 · 13-11-2009, 7:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HDCriticalFan

Er, I was complaining about the poor (even by ITVHD standards) picture quality. I have now found out that this is due, at least in part, to it being shot on 16mm film and converted to HD (something which the BBC do not consider to be up to broadcast standard for their HD service).

I concede that ITVHD is free and I am not "demanding my money back" ... but surely just because a service is cheap/free doesn't mean that we can't point out its shortcomings

I'm glad that I didn't point out that the only recurring programming on this "channel" in the entire week to Friday comprised two half-hour reality shows (Grimefighters and River Monsters) and Doc Martin. No doubt that would have really wound you up !

Regards

Eh????? Have you not noticed that a 5 times recurring new original british drama has been on all this week? I would hope you have because you started a thread on it.

I don't see channel 4 HD bringing us british drama in HD of that quality,. nor will they give us Brazil vs England.

ITV HD is a very good service overall I think.

derek500 · 13-11-2009, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pdoherty76

I don't see channel 4 HD bringing us british drama in HD of that quality,

There's been a few. Skins, Shameless, Red Riding and The Devil's Whore come to mind.

pdoherty76 · 14-11-2009, 1:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by derek500

There's been a few. Skins, Shameless, Red Riding and The Devil's Whore come to mind.

You would really put those in the same league as the stuff ITV HD has put out in HD, like Lewis, Marple, Collision, Wuthering Heights, Whitechapel, Murderland etc etc????

Clutching and straws I think are in the phrase I am looking for.

I have had this conversation before but CH4HD is rubbish compared to ITV HD.

chrishull3 · 14-11-2009, 8:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrishull3

Interested to know where you found the 16mm info, i tried and failed to find specs on it, which site tells you this info, thanks.

Never mind i guess the look told it, watching last night i could see it was 16mm lovely colour but very soft copaired to video filmed programns [doc matin/the bill etc] eek i hope i am correct about them being video, i think so.

derek500 · 14-11-2009, 8:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pdoherty76

You would really put those in the same league as the stuff ITV HD has put out in HD, like Lewis, Marple, Collision, Wuthering Heights, Whitechapel, Murderland etc etc????

Clutching and straws I think are in the phrase I am looking for.

I have had this conversation before but CH4HD is rubbish compared to ITV HD.

The Devil's Whore picked up loads of awards.

"The Devil's Whore" (2008) - Awards

Shameless has won a BAFTA for Best Drama Serie as well as loads of other nominations and wins.

"Shameless" (2004) - Awards

So has Skins!!

"Shameless" (2004) - Awards

Red Riding will do well in next year's awards I'm sure. Ridley Scott has already picked it up to make a movie of it.

Also, if ITV followed the BBC's quality guidelines, a few of those wouldn't make it to the screen in HD as they were filmed on 16mm.

Collision. Miss Marple and Lewis are just three examples. Do a search with those titles and PQ and you'll find lots of complaints about the bad quality HD.

IMO still better than SD though!! Trouble is, I need to sit through the ads to watch ITV HD!!

pdoherty76 · 14-11-2009, 4:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by derek500

The Devil's Whore picked up loads of awards.

"The Devil's Whore" (2008) - Awards

Shameless has won a BAFTA for Best Drama Serie as well as loads of other nominations and wins.

"Shameless" (2004) - Awards

So has Skins!!

"Shameless" (2004) - Awards

Red Riding will do well in next year's awards I'm sure. Ridley Scott has already picked it up to make a movie of it.

Also, if ITV followed the BBC's quality guidelines, a few of those wouldn't make it to the screen in HD as they were filmed on 16mm.

Collision. Miss Marple and Lewis are just three examples. Do a search with those titles and PQ and you'll find lots of complaints about the bad quality HD.

IMO still better than SD though!! Trouble is, I need to sit through the ads to watch ITV HD!!

What is wrong with sitting through ads? Don't sky users like paying their way?

It is a bit rich considering free tv users are often said to be wanting a free ride.

If everyone skipped through the ads then ITV really would have to closedown. You seem to want content for nothing.

pdoherty76 · 14-11-2009, 4:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrishull3

Never mind i guess the look told it, watching last night i could see it was 16mm lovely colour but very soft copaired to video filmed programns [doc matin/the bill etc] eek i hope i am correct about them being video, i think so.

I think perhaps the makers want a film grain look to certain dramas. America certainly prefer film productions from the UK.

I didn't think the quality was that bad atall. If it was filmed on video then I am sure they would have filmized it anyway which looks even worse.

derek500 · 14-11-2009, 4:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrishull3

Never mind i guess the look told it, watching last night i could see it was 16mm lovely colour but very soft copaired to video filmed programns [doc matin/the bill etc] eek i hope i am correct about them being video, i think so.

Doc Martin is 16mm. Very soft HD, I thought.

Here's another CV, with a list of cameras used

http://www.suzcruz.co.uk/upload/3292009102143525.pdf

If ITV had BBC's 16mm policy, they'd have hardly any HD content.

pdoherty76 · 14-11-2009, 5:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by derek500

Doc Martin is 16mm. Very soft HD, I thought.

Here's another CV, with a list of cameras used

http://www.suzcruz.co.uk/upload/3292009102143525.pdf

If ITV had BBC's 16mm policy, they'd have hardly any HD content.

Not true. ITV HD's live football matches, of which there are at least 40 per season plus 42 in the world cup are not 16mm. ITV HD films are clearly not 16mm, and ITV programmes like African Balloon Adventure, Journey to the edge of the world etc are not 16mm.

They show a few 16mm dramas but it is, i am sure, deliberate. They want a film grain look.

pdoherty76 · 14-11-2009, 5:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pdoherty76

What is wrong with sitting through ads? Don't sky users like paying their way?

It is a bit rich considering free tv users are often said to be wanting a free ride.

If everyone skipped through the ads then ITV really would have to closedown. You seem to want content for nothing.

Bump, in case Derek missed it.

derek500 · 14-11-2009, 6:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pdoherty76

Bump, in case Derek missed it.

But the ads on ITV HD are all for jewellery shops in Preston, Pooles Pies in Wigan, Sofa shops in Bolton etc. etc.

Not much good if you don't live in Granadaland.

pdoherty76 · 14-11-2009, 7:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by derek500

But the ads on ITV HD are all for jewellery shops in Preston, Pooles Pies in Wigan, Sofa shops in Bolton etc. etc.

Not much good if you don't live in Granadaland.

Totally untrue.

I am currently watching ITV HD and the vast majority of ads are national ads such as Lumix, confused.com, Nissan etc

Are you claiming that when ITV HD has regional ads sorted you will watch them?

You want something for nothing.

pdoherty76 · 14-11-2009, 7:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pdoherty76

Not true. ITV HD's live football matches, of which there are at least 40 per season plus 42 in the world cup are not 16mm. ITV HD films are clearly not 16mm, and ITV programmes like African Balloon Adventure, Journey to the edge of the world etc are not 16mm.

They show a few 16mm dramas but it is, i am sure, deliberate. They want a film grain look.

Bump.

derek500 · 14-11-2009, 7:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pdoherty76

Bump.

Paul, at the time of writing my post, I knew I should have qualified it with 'apart from football'

But as you know football is not as popular as you think.

BBC HD have shown two matches this season, and with a potential reach of over
2m HD enabled homes have only managed a maximum of 76,000 viewers!!

pdoherty76 · 14-11-2009, 7:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by derek500

Paul, at the time of writing my post, I knew I should have qualified it with 'apart from football'

But as you know football is not as popular as you think.

BBC HD have shown two matches this season, and with a potential reach of over
2m HD enabled homes have only managed a maximum of 76,000 viewers!!

Your level of deception never falters does it Derek?

The games shown on BBC HD were championship games. I don't expect many people to tune into those.

Football is not as popular as I think? The last england vs spain game on ITV peaked at 8.2 million viewers.

Football is the national game, SKY was built on the popularity of football.

Anyway it isn't just football that isn't in 16mm, ITV HD shows many films, such as the current run of all six star wars movies, none of those are 16mm.

chrishull3 · 15-11-2009, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by derek500

Doc Martin is 16mm. Very soft HD, I thought.

Here's another CV, with a list of cameras used

http://www.suzcruz.co.uk/upload/3292009102143525.pdf

If ITV had BBC's 16mm policy, they'd have hardly any HD content.

Dont let it get too heated

, your link wont work which is a shame as i would have found it interesting, so DM is 16mm it looks better than collision to me what about the bill do you know what format thats filmed.

HDCriticalFan · 15-11-2009, 2:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pdoherty76

Eh????? Have you not noticed that a 5 times recurring new original british drama has been on all this week?

Well it's not on next week, is it ? So it's not recurring to my way of thinking.

I'm talking about how ITVHD is not a proper TV channel.

Compared with C4HD (which is probably the nearest equivalent - being a terrestrial broadcaster too) they have recurring series like; Ugly Betty, Generation Kill, Time Team, Hollyoaks, Come Dine With Me, Country House Rescue ... all on this week and next week (and weeks thereafter). That's before you even consider that their 24/7 upscaled output which looks very good indeed too.

Regards

HDCriticalFan · 15-11-2009, 2:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pdoherty76

Don't sky users like paying their way?

I'm a "Sky user" and I pay a small fortune for my TV ... it's ITV viewers who get it for free !

If ITV1 got itself included on a satellite channel bundle then I would be paying for it - and I would be happy with that.

That said, and this really isn't intended to start an argument, the honest truth is that ITV don't seem to be catering for my tastes as a viewer. I don't mind that one bit. Each to his own, different strokes, etc,...

I find that I watch a lot of "cult" TV (provided by Sky, C4 and other satellite channels) and science/technolgy (Click, Horizon, Sky at Night). I don't watch soaps (Corrie, Emmerdale), murder mysteries (Midsomer, Lewis, Morse, Poirot) or "news as entertainment" (Tonight) - although I do like 24/7 rolling News (Sky/BBC/CNN and, for a bit of a giggle, Fox).

Now if only Harry Hill would move to C4 ...

Regards

derek500 · 15-11-2009, 2:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrishull3

Dont let it get too heated

, your link wont work which is a shame as i would have found it interesting, so DM is 16mm it looks better than collision to me what about the bill do you know what format thats filmed.

The Bill is made with Thomson HD cameras.

The Bill, ITV1 | In-depth | Broadcast

That other link is a PDF, perhaps you don't have Adobe Acrobat installed?