[The News Bot]

Blu-ray player sales in the US plummeted in February. According to data released by the NPD Group’s Retail Tracking Service, dedicated player sales dropped 40 per cent, as a string of special retail promotions and bundling deals came to an end. NPD director Ross Rubin suggests that the format war with HD DVD was not [...]
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[Canary_Jules]

Great news for HD-DVD!

Seriously though, as a fan of HD this is slightly worrying. Blu-ray needs to reduce prices asap on both discs and players.

[Simon3119]

What Blu-ray needs is some competition from a rival. Something that benefited the consumer not the manufacturer. Something that has reasonable prices for hardware and software, maybe internet connectivity for extra content. Something that didn't need constant updating of profiles. Some kind of hardware whose sales aren't boosted by coming as standard on a games console.

HD-DVD anyone? anyone?

[mikim]

I think that there is a simple reason for this... Go to your local Currys or try a variety of online web stores and see if you can find a BD30 or BD-P1400 in stock(which seem to be the current favs) .... all the sites say 3-4 weeks.

I know that they are available with allot of searching, but seriously, come on manufactures... if you release new a product.. "release it,... make it available"

[alan29]

A con too far?
Emperors new clothes, anyone?
Alan

[Helicon]

Will people let HD-DVD go?!!!

This story is rubbish. Anyone with a brain and half their eyesight left can see that Blu-Ray looks far better than standard, upscaled DVD! This is just a story made up by HD-DVD fans for a bit of scaremongering.

[Canary_Jules]

With respect I think the point of the report is that people can't reconcile the obvious PQ and AQ improvements over upscaled DVD with the 'premium' price currently being charged for Blu-ray. Bring the prices down and that gap is bridged - et voila, Blu-ray gets adopted by the masses!

[TeeDoubleUDee]

I think this has got more to do with the general recession the US is starting to go through. As soon as they all get their $600 tax rebate cheques BD players will fly off the shelves

[punkymunky]

Originally Posted by Canary_Jules

With respect I think the point of the report is that people can't reconcile the obvious PQ and AQ improvements over upscaled DVD with the 'premium' price currently being charged for Blu-ray. Bring the prices down and that gap is bridged - et voila, Blu-ray gets adopted by the masses!

Absolutely right, it's all down to cost, mostly the cost of the discs. They need to be < £10 or it will be a dead duck.

[Ekko Star]

Standard dvd players are down and blu-ray plummets. Upscalers soar ? So it can't really all be to do with a US recession.

[Simba]

im sure alot of the people buying SD upscaling players are the ignorant buyers and i bet there is a heck of a lot of them that make up the mass market.

ignorant buyer meets salesman >salesman preaches at the wonders of cheap SD upscaling probably mentioning 1080p>customer buys upscaling dvd player thinking their getting the high def glory.

[Jonstone]

Can you really discount the PS3 from any figures relating to blu ray player sales?

The PS3 has proven it is an excellent blu ray player and probably the only one on the market with enough flexibility to cope with the changing features of the blu ray format.

If I was in the market for a blu ray player, even if I didn't want a games console the PS3 would still be top of my list, considering all the other media abilities it has I don't really see why anyone would buy anything else until the dedicated players are significantly cheaper than a PS3.

Hasn't the PS3 had a good time sales wise in th US during the same time period?

I don't think we need to worry about people adopting blu ray, the PS3 will sell in great enough numbers to ensure there are plenty of players out there and so long as the userbase is high enough to ensure that films are released on blu ray I don't really care if a large section of the population is happy with dvd, I will be happy with my setup where you really can see the difference

[featherhall]

Originally Posted by Jonstone

Can you really discount the PS3 from any figures relating to blu ray player sales?

The PS3 has proven it is an excellent blu ray player and probably the only one on the market with enough flexibility to cope with the changing features of the blu ray format.

If I was in the market for a blu ray player, even if I didn't want a games console the PS3 would still be top of my list, considering all the other media abilities it has I don't really see why anyone would buy anything else until the dedicated players are significantly cheaper than a PS3.

Hasn't the PS3 had a good time sales wise in th US during the same time period?

I don't think we need to worry about people adopting blu ray, the PS3 will sell in great enough numbers to ensure there are plenty of players out there and so long as the userbase is high enough to ensure that films are released on blu ray I don't really care if a large section of the population is happy with dvd, I will be happy with my setup where you really can see the difference

one of the best posts I have read. You are absolutely correct. I bought my PS3 only for Bluray (360 does me dandy for gaming). I have a feeling I am not alone

[Sonic67]

Originally Posted by Helicon

Will people let HD-DVD go?!!!

This story is rubbish. Anyone with a brain and half their eyesight left can see that Blu-Ray looks far better than standard, upscaled DVD! This is just a story made up by HD-DVD fans for a bit of scaremongering.

Blu-ray does look better than standard (though maybe not significantly enough). It doesn't follow that people will buy blu-ray though. SACD and CD for that matter also sound better than MP3. It's not really a priority for the masses. Neither was SVHS or DVHS either.

When I told my mate blu-ray had won the format war he was totally uninterested. He still has a Samsung from a time when they were the size of VHS decks.

It's funny but I was told many times that people weren't buying into HD solely because of the format war and 'customer confusion' and I'd thought then I'm not seeing any huge enthusiasm for this technology outside of the cinema buffs.

[Mec]

Originally Posted by Simba

im sure alot of the people buying SD upscaling players are the ignorant buyers and i bet there is a heck of a lot of them that make up the mass market.

ignorant buyer meets salesman >salesman preaches at the wonders of cheap SD upscaling probably mentioning 1080p>customer buys upscaling dvd player thinking their getting the high def glory.

I think that is only partly true

To compare to the plasma market for example, take Pioneer plasmas. Yes everyone agrees that they had the best picture out there, but how many people where willing to pay three times the price for a 20% improvment? Again with SACD/ Dvd Audio over CD, people might notice the difference but weren't willing to pay the extra for both the hardware and the premium on the discs.

Yes there is a improvment in both picture and sound with blu ray, however when you take into account that the average size of tv in this country is 32" and most people don't have the setup to take advantage of the hd soundtracks, then getting them to pay a few hundred quid for a blu ray player and the extra for the discs against less than hundred for a upscaling dvd player and a tenner for a new dvd is asking a lot

[Mec]

Originally Posted by Jonstone

...Hasn't the PS3 had a good time sales wise in th US during the same time period?

I don't think we need to worry about people adopting blu ray, the PS3 will sell in great enough numbers to ensure there are plenty of players out there and so long as the userbase is high enough to ensure that films are released on blu ray I don't really care if a large section of the population is happy with dvd, I will be happy with my setup where you really can see the difference

Yes but a lot of the sales are down to the games that are finally starting to show like GT Prologue and Metal Gear for example.

You might not care if the general population adopts blu ray but the studios do. That is where their profit comes from.

[Upholder]

This is what I posted on the Blu Ray Forum early this morning..... It seems I'm not alone in my thinking...




I've been itching to buy a BD player for some time now, but having read through this thread and many others I've decided against it... Blu ray is a format that is being pieced together bit by bit, it promised a lot but has not delivered. I want a player that provides everything I need now and without continuous firmware upgrades, in other words take it out of the box plug it in and use it for at least 3 years before contemplating an upgrade... I pay a lot of money for my equipment but enough is enough, I believe we are being ripped off.. Blu Ray I believe is a dead man walking (so to speak), if it does not make it in to Joe Publics home within a year it's finished... So I'll stick to what I've got and wait and see what happens...

By the way, I hope I'm wrong...

[kingfats]

Originally Posted by featherhall

one of the best posts I have read. You are absolutely correct. I bought my PS3 only for Bluray (360 does me dandy for gaming). I have a feeling I am not alone

Hi featherhall.
Your not alone PS3 > Blu-ray player my only use for it and in my opinion the best BD player on the market.
All the best.

[ezabuk]

The PS3 has a big problem...in terms of blu-ray, in the US there is near recession at half UK price still expensive if you have no job or have one but spend all day worrying about for how long, in the UK at least it will only play blu-rays at approx double the US price due to region coding again ...if you have a decent enough job and can find the titles you really want to watch on blu-ray in the correct region code.

I hear you saying but it upscales DVDs ...well yes, but not your back catalogue of multi region SD DVDs just ones from the the same region as your PS3

Ah ha, but it has great sound up to 7.1, no? - well, only for certain movies and then only for those that have equipment compatible with 5.1/7.1 or go buy one.....

The PS3 is not backwards 5.1/7.1 audio compatible so you can't even link to your old 5.1/7.1 system for sure.

And finally, less you forget, the need for a HD tv before blu-ray is even worth bothering with - course 1080p would be your choice there ... only if you didn't fall for the 1080i HD ready gimmick first or struggle with faulty emerging technology.

So what is the true cost of blu-ray?

[brian s]

Originally Posted by featherhall

one of the best posts I have read. You are absolutely correct. I bought my PS3 only for Bluray (360 does me dandy for gaming). I have a feeling I am not alone

Mine's not just for Blu-Ray. It's for SACD as well.

Cheers
Bri

[Helicon]

Originally Posted by Upholder

This is what I posted on the Blu Ray Forum early this morning..... It seems I'm not alone in my thinking...

I've been itching to buy a BD player for some time now, but having read through this thread and many others I've decided against it... Blu ray is a format that is being pieced together bit by bit, it promised a lot but has not delivered. I want a player that provides everything I need now and without continuous firmware upgrades, in other words take it out of the box plug it in and use it for at least 3 years before contemplating an upgrade... I pay a lot of money for my equipment but enough is enough, I believe we are being ripped off.. Blu Ray I believe is a dead man walking (so to speak), if it does not make it in to Joe Publics home within a year it's finished... So I'll stick to what I've got and wait and see what happens...

By the way, I hope I'm wrong...

Anyone wanting a modern day new format without any software upgrades is living in cloud cuckoo land. We're not talking vinyl or CD here, we're talking PC based products that need constant software upgrades to fix various bugs and make improvements. What's the hassle downloading the occassional free update?! Most homes have internet access making this easy. 10/15 years ago i'd say it would've been a big problem.

Blu-Ray isn't the first product needing software updates. CD and DVD players needed them, but not very few manufacturers bothered. There's only the likes of Arcam and occassionally Denon who actually made use of software updates.

Ask yourself exactly what you need now. Other than playing films, what exactly do you need? people may be moaning they can't take advantage of 2.0, but how many people are actually going to use it?

Upscaling has it's place, and can be pretty impressive sometimes, but after watching Saw 4 earlier this evening, it's a long way behind Blu-Ray. Blu-Ray is here to stay, whether the price comes down now, next year, or even the year after that. Most formats take about 5 years to bed in.......so we have a little time yet.

[Korum]

Originally Posted by Jonstone

Can you really discount the PS3 from any figures relating to blu ray player sales?

The PS3 has proven it is an excellent blu ray player and probably the only one on the market with enough flexibility to cope with the changing features of the blu ray format.

If I was in the market for a blu ray player, even if I didn't want a games console the PS3 would still be top of my list, considering all the other media abilities it has I don't really see why anyone would buy anything else until the dedicated players are significantly cheaper than a PS3.

Hasn't the PS3 had a good time sales wise in th US during the same time period?

I don't think we need to worry about people adopting blu ray, the PS3 will sell in great enough numbers to ensure there are plenty of players out there and so long as the userbase is high enough to ensure that films are released on blu ray I don't really care if a large section of the population is happy with dvd, I will be happy with my setup where you really can see the difference

Good point but it's the price of the discs that's the problem. Walk into Tesco etc and you either pick up a new release on DVD for £9.98 or the Blu-ray version for £23.98, not many people are gonna pick the Blu-ray version even if they have a PS3 to play it on.

DVD's could get away with a premium charge when they were first released because it was vastly superior to VHS but Blu-ray can't afford to adopt such a high price point if they want to become mainstream.

[kingfats]

Originally Posted by Korum

Good point but it's the price of the discs that's the problem. Walk into Tesco etc and you either pick up a new release on DVD for £9.98 or the Blu-ray version for £23.98, not many people are gonna pick the Blu-ray version even if they have a PS3 to play it on.

DVD's could get away with a premium charge when they were first released because it was vastly superior to VHS but Blu-ray can't afford to adopt such a high price point if they want to become mainstream.

Hi Korum.
I agree some of the prices in the high street are ridiculous a lot of people,just don't think it's worth the extra price tag for the jump in PQ you get.
All the best.

[featherhall]

Originally Posted by Korum

Good point but it's the price of the discs that's the problem. Walk into Tesco etc and you either pick up a new release on DVD for £9.98 or the Blu-ray version for £23.98, not many people are gonna pick the Blu-ray version even if they have a PS3 to play it on.

DVD's could get away with a premium charge when they were first released because it was vastly superior to VHS but Blu-ray can't afford to adopt such a high price point if they want to become mainstream.

I agree Korum. I fall over every time I see titles on the High Street. Certainly the early adopters more often than not import, or shop online to shave that extra fiver or so off. However, I remember when dvd was launched and certain titles (Titanic and Theres Something About Mary) were launched at a ridiculous £25-30 in the High Street.
I agree that the jump is nowhere near as obvious as vhs>dvd was, but the costs will come down.
I believe it will succeed, as consumers eventually upgrade their sets they will look for films that do their sets justice. The PS3 in particular does a fantastic job of upscaling, and with the future proof download updates via the online service, web browsing and all the rest it really is the best player out there (IMHO).
Consumers want to have something to show for their money (a disc in their hand). I dont like downloading movies. I have tried it on the 360 marketplace, and let me tell you it is not very enjoyable. Maybe when broadband speeds go through the roof etc it will take off. However given the fact the films are deleted after so many days makes you kinda think that you are at their mercy.
Blueray, buy the disc, put it on a shelf, and watch whenever you want. Bored with it - then sell it.

I was an HDDVD lover, and was gutted when the format was killed off, but now we have a sole format, I think it will take off.

All it takes is a few huge hitters (Lord of The Rings / Star Wars etc) to be released, and plenty word of mouth, and of course price reductions on the High Street.

Certainly I wouldn't buy another sdDVD over Blueray after seeing the quality on my screen

[Rich777]

Originally Posted by Helicon

Anyone wanting a modern day new format without any software upgrades is living in cloud cuckoo land. We're not talking vinyl or CD here, we're talking PC based products that need constant software upgrades to fix various bugs and make improvements. What's the hassle downloading the occassional free update?! Most homes have internet access making this easy. 10/15 years ago i'd say it would've been a big problem.

Blu-Ray isn't the first product needing software updates. CD and DVD players needed them, but not very few manufacturers bothered. There's only the likes of Arcam and occassionally Denon who actually made use of software updates.

Ask yourself exactly what you need now. Other than playing films, what exactly do you need? people may be moaning they can't take advantage of 2.0, but how many people are actually going to use it?

Upscaling has it's place, and can be pretty impressive sometimes, but after watching Saw 4 earlier this evening, it's a long way behind Blu-Ray. Blu-Ray is here to stay, whether the price comes down now, next year, or even the year after that. Most formats take about 5 years to bed in.......so we have a little time yet.

Sales on movies on DVD exceeded VHS in 4 years.

I think the earlier post is pertaining to the unfinished spec, not the run of the mill firmware updates.

blu ray is pants

PS3 owner.

[Korum]

Featherall, I totally agree with your comments. When I owned my PS3 the only reason I bought any BD movies was because of the excellent prices we avforumers distribute films for on the classifieds and HD-DVD was superb because you didn't have to worry whether that supposedly Region Free film would work or not (Damn you Region Coding)

I've thought about purchasing a few films on XBOX Marketplace but I think they are way overpricing the HD format titles esp since some don't even have DD5.1

I like owning the actual discs for films and games at the moment but that may change in the future as I now wouldn't dream of buying a music CD because the download systems are so fluid. I also l like the way PSN game downloads were displayed in the XMB so if films could be purchased and displayed with images and running video on a media bar I think I could go with that

[stasis]

Hi, The cost of the discs is what is stopping me from buying more Blu-ray discs. My recent purchase have all been SD because I could not justify the price premium. High prices will be a big barrier to enthusiasts double dipping on movies. If they cannot convince home cinema enthusiasts to pay the price premium what chance have they got with the average joe.
Less greed and the lower prices will equal higher sales.
Bought the PS3 for blu-ray after reading the forum. Hardly bought any Blu-ray due to high prices but discovered games. First time I ever played games.
regards stasis.

[cyman]

i was a hd dvd fan and have around 40 discs most of them bought from america because they are/were so much cheaper to get.

i have started to get a few blu ray titles as i always had the intention of getting a blu ray player but the prices of the hardware that is not complete is ridiculous at the moment and that is even if you can get a decent one with delivery under 2 weeks.

i have an xbox 360 for gaming and i use my hddvd ep35 for upscaling my normal dvd's (which is not the same as hd/bluray but isnt that far away, i view on my 42" plasma)

i havent bought any discs at all recently no bluray,hddvd or dvd. this is because i would like to buy hd discs but they are way overpriced here in the uk. hddvd non existant and i wont buy dvd because although i upscale all my old dvd's i dont see the point of buying new when i will eventually replace them with hd.

dvd collection - upscaled improves my old favorites
hddvd - some great films no more coming out
hd vod - wont ever use if i pay for something i want to own it not have 'x' amount of days to view it before i have to pay again.
blu ray - some great films overpriced,no standalone players that are future proof yet,current players overpriced and out of stock.

this is a very simplistic view of the market place and sums up how a lot of people are thinking and before everyone says get a ps3 it solves the hardware issue i dont want another console for films i will only buy a standalone. i hope bluray get there act together soon i want to buy in but until they sort the things out listed above i will wait on the sidelines.

si

[mikim]

Originally Posted by cyman

.......current players overpriced and out of stock.

Personally not to bothered about the cost, many will be I guess, but I remember when DVDs were at least £25 each, and the players were £400+ too, so in the early days this is not really a surprise is it.

... BUT I can't buy a new player if I wanted to due to no stock levels in this country (unless it's a PS3 of course, why should that be my only choice though) ...now that is bl**dy ridiculous

[nil102]

Cant see how A 5% increase in upscalers is actually soaring some how