[The News Bot]

Hitachi is the latest panel maker to be plunged into crisis, thanks to the growing pressure on the worldwide flat panel TV market. The company says it expects to announce a net loss when it publishes its year-end figures on March 31. Hitachi says the blame for its impending, disappointing results is due to falling [...]
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[Dav1dF]

Along with Philips, LG and so on, it's their own fault for making LCD so cheap. They've pretty much created a market they can no longer compete in.

[marty2005]

I wouldn't call Philips cheap.


Hitachi always gets bad reviews on their tvs for black levels, they should improve then they would sell more.

Cheaper is better since they are mass produced. Why would you want to pay more for the same tv?

The main problem is most people already own a flat panel tv and can see no reason to get another one unless the improvement is a big difference and the average punter chances their tvs every 5 years.

[Crustyloafer]

Originally Posted by Dav1dF

Along with Philips, LG and so on, it's their own fault for making LCD so cheap. They've pretty much created a market they can no longer compete in.

True, but probably forced that way by public pressure. The constant pressure by the buying public on lower prices on consumer electronics will ultimately result in the demise of all quality manufacturers and the associated performance. At the end of the day, Joe Bloggs cannot tell or is not even interested in the performance differences between AV hardware. Convenience and price is king above all else.

[Timbo21]

Originally Posted by Crustyloafer

True, but probably forced that way by public pressure. The constant pressure by the buying public on lower prices on consumer electronics will ultimately result in the demise of all quality manufacturers and the associated performance. At the end of the day, Joe Bloggs cannot tell or is not even interested in the performance differences between AV hardware. Convenience and price is king above all else.

People assume prices will just keep on dropping, and that it's given that all components always become cheaper and cheaper, resulting in cheaper consumer prices.

I guess what will happen will be similar to our clothes, which are not made to last anymore. TV's will increasingly be made from cheaper components, and last only a couple of years. I think many are there already

I think we've seen a peak in consumer TV quality with Pioneer, and that it cannot continue to raise the bar and keep prices competitive.

[eric pisch]

The side affect of producing cheap goods in china, they where allways going to take the next step and produce goods for themselves, look how many unknow tv brands have sprung up in the last couple of years selling low quality very very cheap TVs.

This is happening accross all areas of goods, even drugs.

You lie in bed with a dragon your gonna wake up one day burnt.

[dBrowne]

Originally Posted by eric pisch

The side affect of producing cheap goods in china, they where allways going to take the next step and produce goods for themselves, look how many unknow tv brands have sprung up in the last couple of years selling low quality very very cheap TVs.

This is happening accross all areas of goods, even drugs.

You lie in bed with a dragon your gonna wake up one day burnt.

...or consumed. Nothing to stop the Chinese buying distressed brands for marketing purposes.

[ColinB_NI]

Originally Posted by Dav1dF

Along with Philips, LG and so on, it's their own fault for making LCD so cheap. They've pretty much created a market they can no longer compete in.

Hello,

Sorry but as an everyday consumer of electronic products I disagree with your argument.

I remember a lot of years back when Hitachi CRT telly's were regarded as one of the 'best in the business' and rightly so. But it seems that other manufacturers continued to research and develop new ideas and concepts (think Sony for Trinitron TV tube and the Walkman etc etc , Panasonic for the Quintix TV tube, Sharpe for first LCD TV, Fujitsu for first Plasma Display (allegedly), Sony and Philips for CD format etc etc) As things progressed and for whatever reason, Hitachi telly's started to get bad reviews and the brand started to get itself a bad name. Personally I dont think the brand has ever recovered from this... hence the present day situation.

Lets face it when the average Joe goes out to buy an LCD or plasma telly one name that does NOT immediately spring to mind is Hitachi!

As a consumer I will naturally want to pay as little as possible for the highest quality product in my price range. So I presume manufacturers know this and try to reduce costs while maintaining quality to stay within that so called 'price range'... the result for them (if they get it right) is good reviews and more sales.... Some manufacturers don't get it right!

I for one welcome the 'cheap' brands made in China etc... brands that I would rarely if ever buy, but... they help to bring prices down across the market.... they satisfy those who really don't care much for quality and just want a working product.... and they make room for a 'mid range' product from the well known brands which therefore has to be better value for money without being of poor quality.

Roll on the day when Blu Ray players can be bought in Tesco's for £40!!

ColinB

[RichardG]

Originally Posted by ColinB_NI

Hello,

I presume manufacturers know this and try to reduce costs while maintaining quality

I for one welcome the 'cheap' brands made in China etc... brands that I would rarely if ever buy, but... they help to bring prices down across the market.... they satisfy those who really don't care much for quality and just want a working product.... and they make room for a 'mid range' product from the well known brands which therefore has to be better value for money without being of poor quality.

Roll on the day when Blu Ray players can be bought in Tesco's for £40!!

ColinB

Sorry fella but you're bonkers...your first point about getting cheaper all the time but maintaining quality is not sustainable (hence "quality" names choosing to leave the industry than reduce costs beyond the point where quality can be achieved).

You're contradicting yourself by stating manufacturers of low/poor quality product serve to force "well known brands" to introduce mid-range products (what do you mean by this anyway?) - their branding/place in the market doesn't allow it - Loewe and Pioneer will NOT allow LCDs or plasmas with their badge to be sold for £300 in Tesco - it damages their prestige far more than the short term gains of increased sales.

Blu-ray players for £40? I don't doubt it'll happen, but they will be rubbish and no better than a good SD player is at the moment. But when you're watching it on your £100 LCD you won't know the difference. SACD is a FAR superior format to CD, but once Sony started putting it into micro and minihifis there was no way the benefits could be heard. Same with £40 Bluray players

If you want quality - you have to pay for it - it's that simple.

Just because Kia make cheap cars that work, there's no way Lexus are going to start selling cheap cars. But one is associated with quality and the other is merely acceptable. Unfortunately in home entertainment electronics, it seems people are not willing to compare price with value.

If you want quality, bite the bullet, save up and buy quality - and buy it now while you still have the choice - in 10 years you might not...

[ColinB_NI]

Originally Posted by RichardG

Sorry fella but you're bonkers...your first point about getting cheaper all the time but maintaining quality is not sustainable (hence "quality" names choosing to leave the industry than reduce costs beyond the point where quality can be achieved).

You're contradicting yourself by stating manufacturers of low/poor quality product serve to force "well known brands" to introduce mid-range products (what do you mean by this anyway?) - their branding/place in the market doesn't allow it - Loewe and Pioneer will NOT allow LCDs or plasmas with their badge to be sold for £300 in Tesco - it damages their prestige far more than the short term gains of increased sales.

Blu-ray players for £40? I don't doubt it'll happen, but they will be rubbish and no better than a good SD player is at the moment. But when you're watching it on your £100 LCD you won't know the difference. SACD is a FAR superior format to CD, but once Sony started putting it into micro and minihifis there was no way the benefits could be heard. Same with £40 Bluray players

If you want quality - you have to pay for it - it's that simple.

Just because Kia make cheap cars that work, there's no way Lexus are going to start selling cheap cars. But one is associated with quality and the other is merely acceptable. Unfortunately in home entertainment electronics, it seems people are not willing to compare price with value.

If you want quality, bite the bullet, save up and buy quality - and buy it now while you still have the choice - in 10 years you might not...

Not wishing to get into an argument with you on this mate... but I think you will find that you are the one who is bonkers!! I mean Loewe TV?? who are you trying to impress/kid????... overpriced and underspecced German snobbery!!

I have already stated that I rarely if ever buy the cheap brands but they do serve a purpose... they help reduce high street prices... if you don't believe that then you really are bonkers!!

So while you sit there squinting at your 32" Slab of German snobbery and feel happy knowing that you have paid a lot of money for it... I will sit back and relax as my home cinema projector throws out 106" of HD ready glorious colour picture and listen to my 7.1 surround sound and marvel at just how close this feels to the real cinema experience!! (and at the same time I will gloat at the fact that I never broke the bank balance when making my purchases either!)

If you can afford to pay for stuff like that well that's up to you and more power to you for doing so as you keep the workers in Loewe etc in a job... but those of us on a 'normal' income want quality products at low prices. Contrary to what you seem to think... this does exist!!

I am guessing here... but I bet you are one of those people who pay £300+ for 15ft of speaker cable and have convinced yourself that it's worth it!!

Argument over and full stop from me!!

ColinB

BTW as a quick aside... I remember a lot of years back, going into a very well known HiFi Shop in Belfast with the aim of purchasing a new cartridge for my record deck. I had been asked to bring with me my existing cartridge (along with stylus!) so that direct comparison could be made. The cartridge I was shown was close to £100 (rem this was quite a few years ago) and was one of the leading brands at the time. The cartridge was installed and set up and a record was played... very nice too.... Then my cartridge was installed and set up.... and the same record played... to this day I can still see the look on the salesman's face when no real difference could be heard!! There he was... trying to convince me to part with £100 for an 'upgrade' to my HiFi... and yet even he had to admit that there was no real difference from my existing cartridge..

You may well ask what was the make of my cartridge and what was the HiFi Shop??

It was a Sony MM Cartridge.... and the shop was Lyric Hifi!!

Enough said I think!!

[RichardG]

Originally Posted by ColinB_NI

I mean Loewe TV?? who are you trying to impress/kid????...

Come round to my house and I'll impress you if you like.

Originally Posted by ColinB_NI

So while you sit there squinting at your 32" Slab of German snobbery and feel happy knowing that you have paid a lot of money for it... I will sit back and relax as my home cinema projector throws out 106" of HD ready glorious colour picture and listen to my 7.1 surround sound and marvel at just how close this feels to the real cinema experience!! (and at the same time I will gloat at the fact that I never broke the bank balance when making my purchases either!)

The only debt I've EVER had is a mortgage so no bank-breaking going on here. I don't need to squint - I've only got a small flat, so 32" is about right for my viewing distance. Enjoy your gloat if it makes you feel better. btw at 106" (across or diagonal?) you must have a pretty big house, so who's trying to impress who here?

Originally Posted by ColinB_NI

If you can afford to pay for stuff like that well that's up to you and more power to you for doing so as you keep the workers in Loewe etc in a job... but those of us on a 'normal' income want quality products at low prices. Contrary to what you seem to think... this does exist!!

Define "normal". Yes I can afford it - the old fashioned way - I (whisper it) saved up.

Originally Posted by ColinB_NI

I am guessing here... but I bet you are one of those people who pay £300+ for 15ft of speaker cable and have convinced yourself that it's worth it!!

Van Damme - 6mm Blue - about £6 a metre if I remember

Originally Posted by ColinB_NI

Enough said I think!!

If only you'd followed your own advice...

[ColinB_NI]

LOL No comment!