No IE onboard Windows 7 in Europe

**The News Bot** · 12-06-2009, 5:35 PM

The next version of the Windows operating system will be sold without a browser in Europe, says Microsoft.
More...

Badger0-0 · 12-06-2009, 5:48 PM

About time too, imo.
But it will be pointless if the setup only points to an IE download.

To keep in line with the EU anti competition rules, hopefully it will also provide links to Firefox, Opera, Safari and Chrome etc, so you have a proper choice

*rovex33* · 12-06-2009, 6:38 PM

I totally disagree with this. I dont like or use IE, but why should they remove it when most Linux distros have a browser and MacOS comes with a browser? This is bad for someone who installs windows on a PC without having any other browser to hand, they then have to go through an extra step to get their browser of choice. Its pathetic.

paulr2006 · 12-06-2009, 6:39 PM

Personaly I don't see what the problem is; if people wan't to download an alternative browser they are free to do so anyway. On a personal note whilst I have tried the rest I still like IE the most, on occasions I use Firefox but don't like the others. In my opinion this is just the EU interfering again where they are not wanted

Badger0-0 · 12-06-2009, 6:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rovex33

I totally disagree with this. I dont like or use IE, but why should they remove it when most Linux distros have a browser and MacOS comes with a browser? This is bad for someone who installs windows on a PC without having any other browser to hand, they then have to go through an extra step to get their browser of choice. Its pathetic.

That's the point though. It's only the browser of choice because it's foisted on you. That combined with how MS forced the manufacturers to have windows 100% or not at all.

I take your point about Linux and MacOs, but they don't have 90%? domination of the market, do they?

I can't see how it's going to be bad as it'll hopefully be a case of pick a browser and click on it to start the download. What's bad about that?

Paul,

Yes they're free to go and get another browser, but the sad fact is the vast majority don't, which is proven by the figures.
And it's not because it's the best browser (even though you prefer it).
I've never seen anyone (who matters) say IE is the best.
Heck, I'm not sure if it conforms to the universally agreed way of doing HTML yet

It certainly didn't the last time I looked into it

*rovex33* · 12-06-2009, 7:05 PM

But the whole thing is pointless! Lets say you are provided with a link page that shows Safari, Opera, Firefox and IE, what do you think most unaware people will choose? Opera what? Mozilla who??, Apple!? but i bought a 'PC'! No ill stick to microsoft, like windows. They must work together right!?

Everyone else more aware of the options probably has a favourite already, and like me will fire up IE only once.. And point it to getfirefox.com. Not bundling IE with retail copies is even more daft. If you are computer aware enough to install Windows from a DVD onto a blank PC then surely you know the situation with browsers!

Linux doesnt have a huge share because its pants for the average user. Apple has a 100% share of the Mac market, and wont supply an OS for any other PC.

Badger0-0 · 12-06-2009, 7:15 PM

I was going to say most people will choose IE anyway, because that's what they know, but I forgot

So if that's the case, where's the problem in having a choice

I certainly don't think it's pointless.

I don't think we're going to agree on this one

mrm3 · 12-06-2009, 7:18 PM

This is ridiculous. MS should be allowed to do what they want with their browser.

Also how can I now download another browser without a browser installed.

*rovex33* · 12-06-2009, 7:22 PM

A choice isnt bad, but why force Microsoft to remove IE? This hurts your ability to get online in the first place and will confuse and irritate people. The EU just havent thought it through and created the whole thing to generate revenue for itself and have a pop at a US company.

Badger0-0 · 12-06-2009, 7:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrm3

This is ridiculous. MS should be allowed to do what they want with their browser.

Also how can I now download another browser without a browser installed.

Did you actually read the article?

Badger0-0 · 12-06-2009, 7:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rovex33

A choice isnt bad, but why force Microsoft to remove IE? This hurts your ability to get online in the first place and will confuse and irritate people. The EU just havent thought it through and created the whole thing to generate revenue for itself and have a pop at a US company.

Why don't they have a pop at the likes of Coca cola and Pepsi who operate similar practices then?
It's nothing to do with US companies, it's about overwhelming monopolies.

*rovex33* · 12-06-2009, 7:41 PM

But IE is free!! Why not have pop at microsoft over the cost of windows? The full EU ruling is pretty amusing. Its based on a completely illogical reasoning and false pretenses.
No one has yet given a good explaination as to why this is a good thing, or will be effective at doing anything positive. No one, on any site or article since the stupid ruling was made.

Badger0-0 · 12-06-2009, 7:50 PM

Quote:

But IE is free!!

Agreed.
But it was basically copied off the back of other companies, as was a lot of MS software.

At the end of the day, you can either see that MS have an unfair monopoly or you can't.
We're never going to agree on this one mate

*rovex33* · 12-06-2009, 8:14 PM

Thats because i disagree with the EU definition of monopoly, its not that i cant see that microsoft have an unfair monopoly, i simply disagree that it one at all. A regional water company is a monopoly because you CANT get water from any other source in any practical quantity or through your taps. Microsoft is not, you can chose to have an Apple, or Linux

David Mackenzie · 12-06-2009, 8:35 PM

Although it's better than it used to be, IE is a pain in the backside for web developers, so I'd normally rejoice over this - but I just don't understand the purpose of the ruling.

Windows is Microsoft's operating system, why on earth shouldn't they pack their web browser in with it? I presume the EU will also prevent Apple from bundling Safari, Garageband, and iTunes with their Macs? The latter company actively promotes their software as a reason to buy and that's fine, but Microsoft falls foul for including a web browser?

mrm3 · 12-06-2009, 8:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Badger0-0

Did you actually read the article?

no sorry

Was trying to make it more light hearted and fun. I'll leave you to it.

Sephiroth0000 · 12-06-2009, 9:20 PM

Ok after reading this article and p&^%£* myself with laughter at both the sheer nonsense and pathetic excuse that is the EU I have decided to put my comments across (and NO I am not a Windows fanboy as I think as an operating system it sucks but it does the job)

In early 2008, Microsoft was fined 899m euros (£765m) by the European Commission for anti-competitive behaviour over bundling in the media player and browser into Windows.

Linux comes with its own suite of software as does Mac and both have done so since they came to the mass market just like Windows so surely as a consumer that's what you expect right? The fact that you have to go and sort out codecs for Windows when you install it is a pain let alone having to find a media player aswell? But then again Britain get's robbed for £40 million a day so this is normal play for them. Wonder what members of the EU got a payrise after that courtcase was over

In January 2009, Brussels reached a "preliminary view" that Microsoft was denting the chance for true competition by bundling its browser software in with its operating system.

Ok this is true to a point but still its wrong. Both Linux and Mac now have their own customer base proving that the competion can succeed if it can bring something to the table which both operating systems have. Linux for example has gathered a bigger customer base as the operating system itself has progressed and the same goes with Apple with whom im sure the man who created it was in league with Bill Gates and Bill Gates screwed him over. (Correct me if im mistaken) but yet still Apple came through and im sure for graphical design Apple's are preferred more then Windows as the operating platform (once again correct if mistaken)

In short I think its stupid and annoying and a complete waste. There are some real issues in the world and the EU are seeing to this??? Nice to know they've got their priorities right yes that was sacasm

Rasczak · 13-06-2009, 5:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rovex33

I totally disagree with this. I dont like or use IE, but why should they remove it when most Linux distros have a browser and MacOS comes with a browser? This is bad for someone who installs windows on a PC without having any other browser to hand, they then have to go through an extra step to get their browser of choice. Its pathetic.

Have to agree. This is going to be nothing more than a pain and inconvienance for consumers. Installing a new OS takes quite long enough without having to then muck around downloading and installing a web browser. What next? Should Media Player be pulled from the package as well? Surely it's library function 'competes' with iTunes? Should Paint be removed? It must be destroying sales of Paint Shop Pro. The list could go on and on. And how about more fundamental things? Should Direct X be unbundled? It might impact upon sales of third party SDKs.

I fully appreciate the need for anti-monopoly legislation. But perhaps in the PC world a balance needs to be struck? Microsoft embedded Windows products tend to rarely be the best on offer - Internet Explorer, Media Player, Paint, Movie Maker etc etc - all are functional but not by any stretch of the imagination reference. That gives companies a way in to present a better product to those who need it - and the global PC market is big enough for that share of users to be huge.

The EU and software companies, including Microsoft themselves, need to take a dynamic look at the PC industry. Operating Systems need to have the basic tools incorporated into them otherwise seamless operation is hammered by numerous incompatible applications taking to each other. As we use of computers for more and more functions, this inevitably means Operating Systems need to have more and more functions which will eat into the territory of third party software developers. The response to this should not be complain to the EU but to adapt and aim to either re-focus the product in question or offer more than the bundled version.

Timbo21 · 13-06-2009, 6:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Mackenzie

Windows is Microsoft's operating system, why on earth shouldn't they pack their web browser in with it? I presume the EU will also prevent Apple from bundling Safari, Garageband, and iTunes with their Macs? The latter company actively promotes their software as a reason to buy and that's fine, but Microsoft falls foul for including a web browser?

Completely agree.

If you're buying a MS product in the first place...

Perhaps MS should be made to include options for other OS before users proceed with their Windows 7 install, lol.

**Steven** · 13-06-2009, 3:37 PM

Reverse thinking required. Most people do not know you can even change your browser

Although with the popularity of Macs and netbooks more people are finding out about Safari and Firefox

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/13/te...er=rss&emc=rss

paulr2006 · 13-06-2009, 5:38 PM

Perhaps an altogether better way would be to have a "Pop up" during installation which say's; Would you like to install IE Webrowser YES/NO?

It appears totally nuts to me to have to install an OS & then download a Browser when there is space on the disc for it

*rovex33* · 13-06-2009, 5:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LFC_SL

Reverse thinking required. Most people do not know you can even change your browser

Although with the popularity of Macs and netbooks more people are finding out about Safari and Firefox

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/13/te...er=rss&emc=rss

Thats what advertising is about! Its not Microsofts fault if Apple, Mozilla, Opera and Google dont advertise their browsers. The fact they maybe free or open source is no excuse. Rather than sit back and cry about it, go after your market!

samhain · 13-06-2009, 6:40 PM

It seems utterly perverse to me that Microsoft has to change their own product to make sure that it's not anti competitive. Surely, it's up to other software houses to build a product, market a product, make partnerships with the big distribution boys to compete with Microsoft. Also, I make the choice to buy a Microsoft product, clearly Microsoft will never 'bundle' competitors products with their product...why should they, hence why I think they remove as the path of least resistance.

Sure if there is deliberate anti competitive behaviour going on, deal with that. When I install a clean OS, I use the IE with the OS to download Firefox. Still my choice and I frankly don't lose any sleep whatsoever that IE8 is sitting on my machine and I never use it....absurd.

SibTiger33 · 13-06-2009, 7:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The News Bot

The next version of the Windows operating system will be sold without a browser in Europe, says Microsoft.
More...

not sure this is a wise move

the best option would be to give people a choice at install time

internet explorer | firefox | opera | other

does this also mean that manufacturers say Dell or HP will have the option to install a different browser by default on the windows 7 OS when selling new PCs?

i remember the days of Internet Explorer 4 and 5 when manufacturers used to modify the IE Shell to include their logo in the IE branding.

SibTiger33 · 13-06-2009, 7:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rovex33

Thats what advertising is about! Its not Microsofts fault if Apple, Mozilla, Opera and Google dont advertise their browsers. The fact they maybe free or open source is no excuse. Rather than sit back and cry about it, go after your market!

hahah

free open source
ok so where do you expect them to get the funds from to advertise their browsers?

Microsoft did us all a favour by including a media player and a web browser in its OS by default

the problem was that the IE browser was pants! - now people have a bit more sense and have started to use better browsers and rightly microsoft have acted by upgrading their poor browser.

media player is the reverse as its actually a very good media player - what happens when the competition comes along and offers better media players for free ?

does this mean that Microsoft have to then get rid of media player?

if this keeps going we will be left with a very very barebones OS which doesnt even have NOTEPAD for example (claims that Notepad ++ is soo much better and microsoft are abusing their 'monopoly'

)

Rasczak · 13-06-2009, 7:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SibTiger33

the best option would be to give people a choice at install time

internet explorer | firefox | opera | other

Where does that end though? Should we be given a choice to install an alternate Media Player? Or an alternative Paint application? Or an alternative calculator? Should Windows Defender/Security have links to third party security applications?

I would say no to all the above. I'm sorry but if browsers like Opera and Firefox are to prosper they must stand on their own two feet. There are plenty of options open to them - why not come to an agreement with Dell, Acer or anyone of the other major PC vendors to pre-install their software?

The EU needs to get a reality check on this subject - not least because it is an abyss they are opening up. For example should Apple offer Internet Explorer pre-installed on it's computers? What about if I want to browse the internet using Internet Explorer on my PS3?

SibTiger33 · 13-06-2009, 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rasczak

Where does that end though? Should we be given a choice to install an alternate Media Player? Or an alternative Paint application? Or an alternative calculator? Should Windows Defender/Security have links to third party security applications?

I would say no to all the above. I'm sorry but if browsers like Opera and Firefox are to prosper they must stand on their own two feet. There are plenty of options open to them - why not come to an agreement with Dell, Acer or anyone of the other major PC vendors to pre-install their software?

The EU needs to get a reality check on this subject - not least because it is an abyss they are opening up. For example should Apple offer Internet Explorer pre-installed on it's computers? What about if I want to browse the internet using Internet Explorer on my PS3?

yep - if you start offering the choice (wich i believe the EU want microsoft to do now right?) then as you say... where do you stop?

Preinstall browsers -? I'm sure a few years ago Dell said they were actually going to preinstall Firefox on their desktops.. what happened to that idea? (i wonder if microsoft got involved )

to be honest the other browsers have done pretty well without being preinstalled . (maybe they are getting a bit greedy now hehe)

in fact i think this is the route the browser companies should use - try to get tie ins with the PC manufacturers HP and DELL mainly.
let microsoft continue to do what they do
microsoft got into this position by hard work so let them do what they want (to a degree) . its up to the competition to take them on - and so far they are doing an excellent job.. Opera 10 and Firefox 3.5 are both fantastic browsers (especially the new opera)