[alexs2]

I thought in the light of complaints and uncertainties currently,it might be useful to have a place to put any complaints and suggestions(within reason of course!) regarding TAG equipment and IAG servicing/follow up/help in one place,where our IAG readers and personnel should be able to find things faster,and also avoid individual threads getting used for complaints.

Give it a try and see if this works any better.

[edward]

Argh! So here's the spittoon!

I wonder if we can entice IAG in?

[alexs2]

Well...the door is open....

And the silence is overwhelming................

Alexas2

Do you really think IAG cares one IOTA about this forum? These discussions? From everything I have not heard, but have had happen to me personally; I would not a snow balls chance inHELL. Its not bashing; IT IS SIMPLY THE TRUTH. IAG knows my email. Their support people in the USA know my email. They all know the problems I had. They simplely don't care. I am a TAG owner; not a possible new Audiolab owner. Until IAG steps to the plate and offers something more than silence I will continue to vent my disappointment in the early demise of a great product line.

It's my second contribution to this forum so please be patient ...

IMHO, there some things that IAG has to understand:

- The Tag Mclaren costumer isn't a Quad costumer, we don't buy gear whose lifetime ends up when it arrives to our home, living as it was when it left the factory for decades (my family had two Quad Systems for thirty years); Therefore hardware development over a stable platform is crucial to the keep things going;

- We are from the software age, where you can had more features to a hardware platform upgrading its software (how many upgrades have we done to our PCs); Therefore software development is also crucial to keep things going;

- In modern life we want answers and solutions to our problems in a reasonable time, otherwise we will go elsewhere to find those solutions.

So keeping this score, IAG's future cannot be much brilliant. At this moment if I had to start my system from the ground up, I would buy anything else ... probably Audionet.

On the other hand, in the near future there will be serious problems for the audiolabs, denons, yamahas, etc of this world. With a HCPC with 1/5 of the investment it would give 2/3 of the performance, and the software houses and PC hardware manufacturers will take over the market. And you will get everything described above (hardware and software support, and easy upgrade... ex: let's bin the souncard because there is new one). Everything we have had from TMA.

As a conclusion, I don't agree when some of us say that we were spoilt. We received the service that we paid for when buying these units (probably we should have paid a small fee for each major software upgrade). But now I wish we could pay to be spoilt, in other words I wish we could have the option to pay for a support contract, or for software upgrades. But in a year time, everything has gone.

[ArchieK]

Our DVD32R was returned to IAG in late November having developed a fault. I checked out where we were in the process yesterday and received an email from Phil Watson today saying that the engineer has not even looked at the machine yet. Disappointing!

[edward]

Who is the bumbling IAG cretin that shapes this marketing posture?

Is it worth finding out who he/she is and targetting them specifically for information?

[alexs2]

Originally Posted by jbm007

And the silence is overwhelming................

Alexas2

Do you really think IAG cares one IOTA about this forum? These discussions? From everything I have not heard, but have had happen to me personally; I would not a snow balls chance inHELL. Its not bashing; IT IS SIMPLY THE TRUTH. IAG knows my email. Their support people in the USA know my email. They all know the problems I had. They simplely don't care. I am a TAG owner; not a possible new Audiolab owner. Until IAG steps to the plate and offers something more than silence I will continue to vent my disappointment in the early demise of a great product line.

JBM...whilst I sympathize entirely with your point of view and your experiences,it's clear that a few of IAG's remaining ex-tag personell do look in from time to time.

I personally do not expect IAG to take any sort of interest as a corporate entity in what goes on here....it would be very nice if they did,but I won't hold my breath.

In the meantime,the purpose of this area is exactly as I stated....to give people a place to voice their suggestions,complaints etc,without taking over other threads,and to give those IAG readers a place to either feedback or give advice if they so wish.

Use this area if you wish...or not if you don't.

[edward]

I'm yet to be convinced of the marketing wisdom behind p*ssing off your installed customer base, especially when they had such potential to boost sales through their endorsement or word-of-mouth referrals. I have to say that it was such a referral that got me to started with my first AV32R.

I’m keen to see what they do to win back those hearts – if anything.

[Plump]

Originally Posted by edward

I'm yet to be convinced of the marketing wisdom behind p*ssing off your installed customer base, especially when they had such potential to boost sales through their endorsement or word-of-mouth referrals. I have to say that it was such a referral that got me to started with my first AV32R.

I’m keen to see what they do to win back those hearts – if anything.

The good point for IAG is we expect nothing more from them :-) .

Apart from that (to stay in sense of this thread) I can say only one thing: I am DISSAPOINTED as hell with IAG's approach. They do not have to enter public forums such as this one, but one welcome email to all customers (they have full database with all our addresses) or message from time to time on their (AWFULL) website or ...

Whatever, my money will not go into their pockets for sure (unless they give me HDMI for my DP for 250 quid - but that is not going to happen)

[GrahamMG]

As a bit of a leveller....
I have always found Dave Patching to be a polite honest and frank person in e-mail exchanges and I hope he feels the same. Repairs to kit whilst they moved premises and set themselves up again (and a lot of existing staff and knowledge went "down the road") was always going to be a mess, I was prepared for 6 months of chaos and I think it was obvious it was chaos from what people have said here. However the new year should now have a settled IAG TAG helpdesk and repair facility (remember IAG's letter on the sale, broadcast on TAG's web site), some people have received reasonable service it must be said but I do worry that this is still a very hit and miss affair which does nothing at all for IAG's credibility in the high end market they have bought into.
The cold fact is that TAG didn't make money with their strategy, all this stuff about Ron Dennis pulling the plug shouldn't have made any difference if the company could stand on its own, I know a management buyout was tried but they couldn't (I assume) make it work to secure the necessary finance so the company was sold. No sane person could therefore expect IAG to carry on in the same fashion. A decent web site (and there is no point in doing it half cocked as we can see......) costs time and money and frankly if they have nothing to say it is a waste of everyone's time. The new "rebadged" range is what we all wait to see and then we can get an idea of what IAG intend to do with what they have (a synic might say "had"). I know stocks of complete AV192R's were limited last Christmas and all were being built to order, I don't know how long they could do this or how many have been sold this year but unless they set up a production facility (China naturally) to re-manufacture the bits, the DP and 192R have a very limited sales potential now.... I know IAG would not have bought a company like TAG just to let it sit and die (assuming the cost was more than a £1.....) but I have a feeling that the AudioLab name was far more important than just about anything else including existing customers brand loyalty and customers ability to generate sales assuming they see great service and commitment. CES pictures and information should start coming our way today, lets see what it is......
I am also sure that IAG do read this forum.......It is porbably a hanging offence to reply though as they simply don't believe in it..... They may have lots to learn about the "high end" AV customer world though......

Another balancing comment - my AV192 went back to IAG mid November for a repair under guarantee and was returned to me in time for Xmas. Phil Watson was helpful whenever I contacted him.

[caleb]

Hi Graham,
What a great balance you bring to this forum, unfortunately many of us are prone to speak with our hearts and not our heads.

I think you brought a great sense of sanity in your reply.
Caleb

[Miron]

Yes, this was the best posting he ever made here.

I guess he must have been totaly drunk

Graham

There is an old saying "actions speak louder than words", And "you only as good as your last job". Two thoughts that people should live by. Unfortunately IAG flunked both of them the first time they tried. Does not bold well for a company that is bringing forth a NEW image. News from CES is not that promising...........

[edward]

Unless they're dead, they can't have nothing to say, Graham, they've had plenty of time to work out what they're going to do with the product and the installed user base.

There might be a cultural mismatch here, though. I'm not talking about the fact that they went through the "cultural revolution" and we didn't. I'm talking about that fact that we're consumers of a high-priced products and have expectations of a good relationship with the manufacturers and after-sales service is part of this. This is very different from the typical "made in china" organisation that pumps out anonymous cheap-and-cheerful products to a market that has no interest in a relationship with the manufacturer and no need to service the product.

It seems inconceivable that any large organisation would attempt to buy into this market without recruiting high calibre marketing and corporate communication expertise to successfully protect the investment by steering the organisation into this market, but that appears to be what has happened.

I say again, I think this non-communication policy is a mistake. There are several possible reasons for such a blunder:
1) They don't have professional marketing expertise with real competence in this sector. I'm talking about people who majored in Marketing at university and have then worked for very successful marketing organisations with big accounts in the home entertainment sector. If they do have them, they're being nobbled - pretty silly but it happens.
2) The do have competent marketing expertise but someone made a blunder and lacks the wisdom to recognise their mistake then allow IAG to take corrective action.
3) They really don't understand the home cinema/surround sound market and have failed to recruit any professional US and European marketing expertise at all.
4) They don't see the US and Europe as their primary markets. A few stands at CES but without even bothering to have product material ready on their web site could be indicative of this. However, the number of German cars in Beijing says that when the Chinese market has money, they'll buy the best from a global market. Without a rather radical about turn in their communication and marketing strategy, IAG is not going to be there, even for the Chinese, despite having bought the rights to best in the world.
5) They haven't realised how big home cinema can be in China although the volume of ripp-off DVDs produced there and concern about the occassional outbreak of highly contagious diseases like bird-flu suggests otherwise.
6) They've been paid handsomely by competitors to kill the company and its product.(OK, I also think there was a conspiracy behind the premature departures of JFK and Bobby, Marilyn, Dai and Doddy and...)
7) I've had too much wine tonight (we all enjoyed the DVD however) to understand the factors that haven't been made public and which defy common sense.

Anyone else got a theory on this or evidence to let us rule out any of the possibilities outlined above?

[Polecatpete]

[edward]

Yep, in the cold light of day, Pete, you’re right. If I’d slept on it I wouldn’t have bothered pressing the Send button. Your taking the time to craft and then edit such an informative response does it more credit that it deserves.

The mystery of IAG’s marketing posture in relation to the TAG Home Cinema remains and pontificating fuelled by an excess of the grape and the grain probably doesn’t do any harm. (In fact more pontificating and less of the other two evils and at least one of us would have felt less grumpy today).

Even in the clear light of day I’m still rattled by companies whose success I crave who clearly fail to recognise marketing as a discipline as developed as any other form of engineering or project management. IAG isn’t alone in this respect but their handling of the TAG Home Cinema technology and customer base has only one rival that I know about, but this time the investment is from my leisure dollars.

Moving into a more constructive gear, I will write to the Directors of IAG. If they have the good manners to respond, I will if they will allow me, publish their response in this forum. We don’t seem to be getting much response from throwing stones at their US and UK-based presence so…

[Polecatpete]

Don't get me wrong Edward, I understand your frustration and I feel the same but as they say, sh%t happens! I'm very lucky to have the gear I do have and I intend to enjoy it for as long as possible. Hopefully IAG will continue to develope the equipment and all the while we have this forum we can continue to help each other and carry on with that community spirit!

This same argument has come up on virtually every other thread so far and I think you have to face facts that IAG either are not ready to talk or they have no intention of doing so. We know they read this forum so I'm sure they are aware of this issue. Not much anyone can do so lets just keep our fingers crossed that the people in charge are working as hard on future upgrades as Barry and Phil are trying to keep our much loved equipment working!

[GrahamMG]

I'm curious why the CES thread was closed, OK it had wandered off piste a bit but......
I still want to know what IAG/TAG had to show and what if anything they had to say to the assembled masses before they all got sloshed and went off with the local "Barbie"...

[alexs2]

Originally Posted by GrahamMG

I'm curious why the CES thread was closed, OK it had wandered off piste a bit but......
I still want to know what IAG/TAG had to show and what if anything they had to say to the assembled masses before they all got sloshed and went off with the local "Barbie"...

It was closed for precisely that reason....this area had been created for anyone to either vent their spleen into,or to add any useful comments.

Despite that,it was constantly being taken off topic and used as a complaints area....by all means open another thread on the CES topic,and I will do my best as before to ensure the complaints remain here,and the thread remains used for its original topic.

[GrahamMG]

Done, I await a torrent of interesting stuff.........

[City_Knight]

IAG say that Barry at the helpdesk has taken a sales rep role and now travels. The TAG Helpdesk is now available AM only and is manned by Phil....

[GrahamMG]

And has been doing the IAG wharfedale rep job since November.

From someone at the show. This brief info from the show

IAG was at CES. Displayed was rebadaged TAG Gear, several old Audiolab pieces with new names and numbers I am not fimiliar with.

[GrahamMG]

Can we keep this on the CES (Son of) thread please?

A question falls out of JBM007's post, are the AudioLab kit literally re-badged (i.e. stick an Audiolab badge over the TAG one) or have the front panels been re-worked (i.e. remove the silk screen printed reference to TAG)? I'm curious as that makes a difference to existing stock and the possibility of some nice bargains...... In short it is easy to just stick on an AudioLAb badge, it is rather different to strip the unit down and re-silk screen the logo's........

Alex, can this post and the one above be moved to CES (Son of)??

[edward]

Ever the optimist, Graham.
We've seen how much effort they've put into establishing the Audiolab brand - sending Barry out to promote Wharfedale and a pathetic web presence.

We really shouldn't be too surprised if it turns out to be stickies, despite having spent the money for a presence at CES.

I just hope that whatever they did was acceptable to the Home Theatre press so that the brand does get favourably re-established, reviewers write up their assessment based upon what this kit can do (assuming it still does what the old kit did) and we've coming back from the hospice in good shape.

Someone please come back from CES with good news - please.

[GrahamMG]

AudioLab has a good name, the TAG name is irreparably damaged as far as dealers are concerned apparently....... I think that was what the aquisition was all about (getting the AudioLab name) as that is what IAG are all about, buy up ailing British companies with a "good breed name". Please tell me your not surprised at this as it is standard stuff unfortunately these days..... Did people stop buying Jag's and Astons????? Actually if your honest those brands have never been better..... We live in hope.......
My immediate question remains, what are they re-manufacturing and what if anything is going cheap as a result of not being able to flog the stuff sitting in warehouses with the TAG name on them very shortly.
"Optimist" well not really, just being realistic and opportunistic.

[edward]

Look at what TAG McLaren did for consumer motor cars – unleashed a high-performance, no compromise, beast of a machine albeit with a price tag (oops) to match. Under Udo, they did the same thing for consumer audio, no question. Audiolab was never cheap kit either (and the dealers were very reluctant to haggle over prices – took me ages to buy my original 8000a) but it was certainly less expensive than TAG. Remember the fuss in the audio press? Let’s just hope that pricing is properly considered as part of establishing the brand and they go for a sensational, irresistibly priced great performance model was well as higher end stuff.

As for the Aladdin’s cave of TAG-badged bargains, surely its only a bargain if you can get it supported for long enough to allow you to eventually either write it off or flog it - and the odds on the some of this mix are looking slim for those of us who don’t run a workshop. My wife thinks something is only a bargain if I need it (they don’t understand).

Besides, I would have thought you had all the TAG goodies you need – they never did build a Home Theatre PC with slots for more than one tuner, a terabyte+ of hard disk, commodity operating system like Windows Media Centre, choice of DVD writer and feeds for the rest of our Home Theatre rig. If they had, many of us would not be either trying to build such a box or contemplating the idea. What? Build one of these things for fun or challenge? Surely it’s necessity that drives these antics.

[alexs2]

Originally posted sheggsl in another thread...moved here.



I think what Tag failed to realise is that they were a relatively new comer to the HT and as such could not be charging Krell & Meridian prices. However they needed to recoop their huge R&D costs. What made the initial AV32R very sucessful was that not only was it a stellar product but the price was modest. Charging close to 10k for a processor for a new comer was inho a bit excessive. Most people paying that kind of money would generally opt for a Krell or Meridian. Also most dealers I spoke to stopped carrying Tag gear way before they went bust, because they thought it was too expensive and they wouldn't be able to sell it.

With regards to the upgrades, the price I was quoted to upgrade my AV32R was more than it would have cost to buy a new one with the latest bells and whistles. Pray tell me where is the business sense in that.

I really loved Tag gear and was really saddened to see their demise, however I think that their stratosphere pricing contributed to this. Im my view I think they alienated their prime cient base, those who wanted good stuff but weren't willling to pay thru their nose for it, hence the sucess of Arcam.

There is also the issue of perception of value, having a 2.5K processor and then moving to a 9K processor is bound to raise a few eyebrows even if the 9K processor is sonically better than the 10K from a competitor

Unfortunately I think Tag's clear upgrade path which made it so popular was also what contributed to its demise. Unfortunately this worked against its dealership network in two ways

1. Dealers rely on planned obselence in order to sell more products.

2. dealers weren't making any money on the upgrades, as customers could invariably go direct to Tag for it.

A real shame really as in my view, if there was one company that deserved to survive, it was Tag. I was also a real fan of Dr Udo Zucker and his team and was eager to see them make a sucess of their venture

I suppose time will only tell whether there will be another company like Tag that will be offer to the consumers what they require.