JL Audio Fathom subwoofer advice needed

[Flavio]

Hi,

I have ordered a Sunfire CRM-2 5-channel set and I want to add 1 or 2 subwoofers to it. I have pretty much decided to get the JL Audio Fathom series (mainly because of WAF) but am undecided which one(s)?

What would better integrate with the Sunfire's, a single f112, a single f113 or dual f112's? Dual f113 might strethc my budget too much. I have a large room (7500 cu.ft) and I like to play at reference levels. Specs on the f113 show the -1.5dB point is at 87Hz so I am a little worried there will be a gap because the Sunfire's only play from 100Hz up.

[kansashick]

I have dual f113s in my 3000 cubic foot room and they are awesome performers. In answer to your question regarding two f112s or a single f113, which has also been poised on a similar US forum, Manville Smith of JL recommended using dual f112s. As to single or dual, from what I know about the sub's capabilities you will need twin subs to get to reference level in a 7500 cubic foot room. Many would argue that you would need three or four subwoofers in that size room.

[Nimby]

7500cu ft? 100Hz speakers? Reference level?

100Hz speakers should be crossed over at a minimum 200Hz for safety.

Why would you buy emasculated speakers for a cavernous room?

Are you really feeling this lucky? Or are you listening nearfield?

Assuming 8 feet ceilings you have 40 x 24 Feet to play in and you are looking for tiny boxes? 10 feet ceilings leave you with 30' x 25'.

You could lose several double wardrobes in that space and not even notice them.

4 x SVS Ultra 13s begin to make sense unless you go for a 4 x fi 18" True Infinite Baffle.

[kansashick]

I couldn't agree more with Nimby about the speakers that you have chosen -- just did not want to say anything since you have already ordered them. If you can cancel the order, you should.

The Sunfires are clearly inadequate for the room size that you wish to fill and the lower end of their frequency range simply makes no sense. Good subwoofers are not designed to go high enough to make up for the Sunfire's lack of bass -- they are SUBwoofers not woofers. If you look at the specs on the CRM-2, you will see that the "woofers" are only 4.5 inches in diameter. Compare this with, for example, my system that uses 2 x 4.5 inch midranges and 2 x 8" woofers and is designed to be used with a subwoofer. In other words, Atlantic Technology 8200e left, right and center each have two woofers almost twice the size of the Sunfires yet, to get THX reference range with proper volume, the manufacturer recommends that they be used with a proper subwoofer.

I cannot imagine that these speakers will be adequate in the critical lower midrange where, for example, the deep male voice resides. It seems to me that the dialogue from your centers will be mush.

Regarding SVS subs, they are highly thought of, though most would say that they are not in the same league with the JLs. Of course, they are one half the cost. They are larger and not as attractive so they may not pass muster with She Who Must Be Obeyed.

[Nimby]

I have looked repeatedly at Ilkka's JL113 tests and read his comments and still cannot see the fascination with the Fathom.

The Ultra13 "walks all over it" on distortion.

Ilkka points out that this is a very good small subwoofer.

Flavio has a small dance hall to fill. This means he has to push the upper limits of any subwoofer(s) if he wants realistic sound levels on action films. Or, that he intends to use his subwoofer as a footstool.

Flavio baulks at the cost of the 113. He gets two Ultras for the same money but he's worried about cluttering up the room.

I don't care how well made the Fathoms are. You can't see them in the dark when it really matters.

For this sort of money he could be getting 120dB @ 10Hz with an IB and have nothing visible in the room.

Quote from one gentleman (carvernut) with 8 x AE IB15s: "I peaked the meter out from 9 - 32.7hz over 130dB pulling an amp load of 100 watts and the drivers have yet to start seriously moving!!! "

The 8 x 15" drivers cost him $800US and the 1200 watt amp less than $400US. He could have used 4 x Fi 18" IBs at much the same overall cost. The subwoofer boxes would still be completely hidden under the floor, above the ceiling or behind an adjoining wall.

Check out "The Cult of the Infinitely Baffled" for pictures and details of many more invisible subwoofers. The only subwoofers which make sense in the context of Flavio's needs.

[recruit]

I would love to hear the Fathoms and nearly bought one a few months back but went for the big SVS instead and would certainly look at adding a few of them to try and fill that room

[suniil]

or JL Audio Gotham G213 x 2 ?

[recruit]

Originally Posted by suniil

or JL Audio Gotham G213 x 2 ?

The Gothams look stunning and maybe adequate, with 2 drivers per sub I would of thought the price tag to be very high indeed.

[Nimby]

$11,000US each.

[recruit]

Originally Posted by Nimby

$11,000US each.

Ouch

[Nimby]

$11,000.00 USD = £5,427.29 GBP.

Law of diminishing returns or a road to ruin?

One is either in this market. Or not.

I suspect one would bring a smile to the owner's face.

I'd be thinking how many 18" Fi IB drivers I could cram into the loft for that princely sum.

But I'm not a prince.

[recruit]

The Gotham is roughly the same price as the big Velodyne 1812 and Genelec HTS6 offerings and presume that anyone who has dedicated rooms will be more than happy to pay the premium price at which they are offered at, obviously DIY subs and IB's are a different ball game and for people with plenty of cash spare will more likely opt for the monster subs by reputable manufactures.

If only I could get hold of one of the Fathom f113's more easily, I would love to do some comparisons to the 2 subs I own at present

[kansashick]

Originally Posted by Nimby

I have looked repeatedly at Ilkka's JL113 tests and read his comments and still cannot see the fascination with the Fathom.

If you heard it, you would appreciate the "fascination". Ilkka's and Craig's metrics don't capture everything. In any case, I put my JLs in the same category as my Aston, a crazy extravagance that cannot be justified by price / performance metrics but one that has a "special something" that I love.

[mojogoes]

Originally Posted by kansashick

If you heard it, you would appreciate the "fascination". Ilkka's and Craig's metrics don't capture everything. In any case, I put my JLs in the same category as my Aston, a crazy extravagance that cannot be justified by price / performance metrics but one that has a "special something" that I love.

I'm not trying to start anything here but how does this sub compare to a svs Pb13 ultra.

[russ.will]

Originally Posted by Nimby

I have looked repeatedly at Ilkka's JL113 tests and read his comments and still cannot see the fascination with the Fathom.

The Ultra13 "walks all over it" on distortion.

On the figures alone, you'd discount the Velodyne DD15. Having heard both the PB13U and the Velodyne, I wouldn't.

Russell