Do you think that HD sound (HD-DVD or Blue Ray) improved your sub/sound

[jensK]

Do you think that HD sound (HD-DVD or Blue Ray) improved your sub/sound

I personally think yes. And not only by a small proportion (such as many claimed 0.0001% improvements). I got through a couple of BD dvds by now and must say I am really happy with the HD sound. There is loads more bass and my Monolith make the whole living room shake even at pretty low volumes.

In this regard is HD sound much more enjoyable than the SD. I would go that far that the sonic improvement is more apparent than on the video side of things, but that might be because my InFocus 5700 does only 1080i/720p. It would be interesting to know whether you experience the same.

[binbag]

For the few weeks that I had an EP35 I thought that the sonic improvement far outweighed the video upgrade. Part of this I put down to the fact that I had been 'demoing' HD clips for a few years whereas had limited chance to experience the sound before getting it at home and part down to the fact that I too am using a 5700 for PJ duties.

I can't say that the LFE was better in particular though, just that the whole soundstage was like gold top compared to the semi skimmed of DVD.

[Turbo Tony]

I'd definitely agree. My first HD experience at home was watching a Toshiba HD E1 on a small 32in Sony LCD.

Even though the sound is going through an el-cheapo Sony receiver/speaker package, I noticed the difference immediately.

As has already been said, it was a bigger difference than the video for me but then I was only watching on a tiny screen.

[mojogoes]

I will be going down this route with which ever blue ray machine i choose after a friend @ R/S said that the separation of the sound was much better with more information once you've selected compressed format..........i'll just have to test this out.

I must admit though that the monolith has tremendous force in DD or DTS.......while i'm here talking about dts why do some disc's / films sound better than others with the dts soundtrack certificate.....plus some such rated films will light up certain lights on the sr605 and others do not .............its just the high level connectivity i'm finding not giving a high enough output at present on the monolith at the moment.

[Ian J]

Originally Posted by Turbo Tony

Even though the sound is going through an el-cheapo Sony receiver/speaker package, I noticed the difference immediately.

I am very surprised that you noticed a difference at all. What was the film that you were watching ?

[Smurfin]

One thing for people to watch....if you're viewing through a PS3, you probably have audio over HDMI set to LPCM, and that's how you're comparing the standard soundtrack with PCM/lossless etc....

However, when comparing, try switching the setting to Bitstream for viewing the DD soundtrack....all of a sudden the difference isn't anywhere near as marked.

There ARE noticeable improvements, but imho it's not night and day, and I have a reasonably decent system. People talk about greater dynamic range but in truth that's nonsense, a soundtrack on DVD will plummet just as low as a lossless soundtrack (if we're talking subwoofers which I assume we are), so dynamic range doesn't come into it. What I get is a real sense of "airiness" and openess in the best lossless soundtracks, more depth to the sound and maybe it's my ears, but the small details have that edge of clarity about them.

If you have a budget system though, my money would still be on buying up the ladder on the 2nd hand route, and foregoing lossless audio for a better quality system. I put money on it that anyone that spends £700 on a decent sub as opposed to upgrading their current equipment (say £400 on a hd receiver, £300 on a BluRay player) will end up with the bigger grin on their face

Food for thought anyway....

[cribeiro]

I am following this thread with the suspicion that the night/day difference is probably due to mismatched adjustments in the comparison, and it seems to be so. I cannot really say, because my experience with HD media is zero, but let's say it is an "educated guess".

[jensK]

Originally Posted by cribeiro

I am following this thread with the suspicion that the night/day difference is probably due to mismatched adjustments in the comparison, and it seems to be so. I cannot really say, because my experience with HD media is zero, but let's say it is an "educated guess".

I don't know whom you are quoting regarding the night/day difference, but it is fact that my wife noticed the difference when lsitening to HD sound and she does not normaly pay atttention to this sort of things unless it is obvious.
Which in turn suggests that the audio performance is noticably better than SD sound tracks. Of course this is only my opinion.

[cribeiro]

Hello JensK,


"There is loads more bass and my Monolith make the whole living room shake even at pretty low volumes"

Not literally said, but I understand that statement as a night/day difference.
Loads more of bass speaks to me of a mis-adjustment, rather than of a sound quality improvement. It could be that the mis-adjustment is in the mix, and not in your system (that is, the HD track may have an exaggerated bass).

I would understand as better quality that you described the bass as better defined, tuneful, with more "shape" in it... But not just louder.

A difference does not always imply an improvement, either.

As I have already said, I may of course be wrong, since I do not have any experience with HD material, it is just a suspicion.

[Ightenhill]

cant comment on the difference but if a subwoofers doing that its either setup wrong or its a dodgy mix..

[jensK]

Cribeiro,

I have a home cinema since two years and I am upgrading it once in a while. I have bought my PS3 last year at eastern and since then I have watched a few BD movies on it. On average 2-3 BD movies a week and the rest in SD material.

I watch all my movies on the PS3 on the same amp and therefore are any differences in sound due to the DVD (SD or BD). I referred to what I think is a better bass because this is the subwoofer forum.

Generally is the sound more realistic on BD than on SD. However not every BD movies has necessarily a fantastic sound track such as Galapagos - BLU-RAY Version (which is 2 channel recording) or Bullitt. Whereas League Of Extraordinary Gentlemen, The - BLU-RAY Version is an amazing soundtrack (if you like bit of a rumble). Another example is War (Blue Ray version) the scenes with gun fire sound truly realistic. I got occasionally the feeling the guy was standing next to and pulled the trigger. I certainly don’t recall that this has happened very often to me with SD with the exception of Munich in the scene when the Mossad blows up an hotel room with a slight overdose of explosive.

[xxGBHxx]

This is much the same argument that can be had regarding the differences (or lack of) between CD and DVD-a or SACD. Tests have been done that prove that under normal conditions, no one can tell the difference. I'm suspecting this is no different to the difference between DD and their HD equivalents.

Now, what they also found in the audio comparison is that a lot more care had generally been taken with mastering the SACD/DVD-A sources so they gave the impression they were better but it had NOTHING to do with the extra capabilities of the format and everything to do with better mastering. Apply that better mastering to the CD (or in our case DD+) sound track and you'll not hear any difference.

It then comes down to your perspective (is the glass half full or half empty). Does the HD sound track sound better? It might very well do because the mastering was better. Does the exact same mastered source sound any different just because the delivery mechanism is different? Almost certainly not.

Ultimately the HD track is probably the track you'd want to go for but not at all for the reasons you believe and as time goes on you'll probably find they'll align FAR more closely in mastering quality.

G

[Shin Akuma]

I haven't heard the new HD sound format but I am pretty sure it will be lot lot better then the standerd ones i.e DD or DTS, I think lets take example by comparing Dolby Digital with DTS to my ears DTS always sounded better and if you check on paper DTS had higher bit rate then Dolby and same thing with HD formats, These new HD formats have got lot higher bit rate compare to old Digital foramts. So IMHO higher the bit rate better the sound.

[Ian J]

Originally Posted by Shin Akuma

I haven't heard the new HD sound format but I am pretty sure it will be lot lot better then the standerd ones i.e DD or DTS,

I have heard the new HD sound formats and can assure you that you are wrong

Originally Posted by Shin Akuma

I think lets take example by comparing Dolby Digital with DTS to my ears DTS always sounded better

We must have different ears then as I have several discs where the DD version sounded much better than the DTS one

Originally Posted by Shin Akuma

These new HD formats have got lot higher bit rate compare to old Digital foramts. So IMHO higher the bit rate better the sound.

Fine theory but in practice just because HD sound formats are capable of better sound it doesn't mean that they will be mastered to their full potential.

[russ.will]

Originally Posted by xxGBHxx

This is much the same argument that can be had regarding the differences (or lack of) between CD and DVD-a or SACD. Tests have been done that prove that under normal conditions, no one can tell the difference. I'm suspecting this is no different to the difference between DD and their HD equivalents.

Now, what they also found in the audio comparison is that a lot more care had generally been taken with mastering the SACD/DVD-A sources so they gave the impression they were better but it had NOTHING to do with the extra capabilities of the format and everything to do with better mastering. Apply that better mastering to the CD (or in our case DD+) sound track and you'll not hear any difference.

It then comes down to your perspective (is the glass half full or half empty). Does the HD sound track sound better? It might very well do because the mastering was better. Does the exact same mastered source sound any different just because the delivery mechanism is different? Almost certainly not.

Ultimately the HD track is probably the track you'd want to go for but not at all for the reasons you believe and as time goes on you'll probably find they'll align FAR more closely in mastering quality.

G

Are you saying that having gone to the trouble of making a True-HD soundtrack from the original master, that they then sit down and master the DD+ or vanilla DD soundtrack from something else? I'd reckon on all the soundtracks being mixed down from the original master and therefore having an equal fighting chance, certainly with the most recent movies. I'd agree that remasters of older movies will show little benefit.

Switching between soundtracks on my EP-35 made some none too subtle differences especially with the likes of 300 and Transformers which I owned on both SD & HD-DVD. Switching between soundtracks at Smurfins house wrought similar differences using Black Hawk Down too.

The scale, space, surround steering and dynamics of the HD formats is clearly superior to my ears, in exactly the same way that I can't hear the differences claimed for two channel SACD. We do agree there and I don't care what the ABX tests say. Whether the technology brings the improvement, or delivers it due to improvements made elsewhere in the production chain, I don't care as long as improvements are made and I can hear them. If I can't, then so what?

Russell