Setting up a Rel Quake

[pinkoboe]

Hi everyone,

Right, this is starting to cause much frustration so hopefully I can pick your collective brains to try get a better understanding of what's going wrong. My setup is as follows:

Marantz SR5200 AV amp
B&W bookshelves & matching center
Rel Quake sub

The sub is connected using a single phono - phono lead on the LFE connection. The speakers are configured as 'small'.

I've had this setup for a few years now but following a change around in the living room at the weekend, I'm determined to get it sounding as good as possible as I've never been completely happy with it all. Basically I'm of my depth when it comes to configuring the sub, I've been trying to follow the guide in the manual but either it's worded badly or I'm a newbie (more likely), specifically "...adjust the crossover to a point where the sub and the speaker are sure to share frequencies (B, 3 for big speakers or C, 4 for smaller speakers)"

Where is it taking these numbers/letters from? There's nothing on the back of the sub that is measured like that. Now my next problem is that I'm seemingly unable to control the crossover. The mode selector does seem to have an impact on the sound but then making any changes to the rolloff (which I take it is the same as crossover?) makes no difference. On the Rel site, it says:

"If you are connecting with the low-level input only, repeat the process described above using the low-level gain and filter controls. If you are connecting your LFE output to the low level input of the Sub-Bass System, choose a movie chapter with consistent bass content. Follow the procedure using positions 2 and 4 on the mode switch to achieve correct phase and then adjust for correct position and integration. Please note that when using the LFE input (Position 2 of the mode switch), the Sub-Bass System’s filter controls are bypassed, so in this case you are adjusting for Phase, Position and Integration with the low-level gain control and mode switch alone. Also note that the correct Phase and Position apply to both high and low level inputs. Remember that by setting the mode switch to position 2, the Filter/Roll Off is only bypassed for the low level input."

So that suggests by using mode 2 the roll off controls won't make a difference, but presumably setting it to mode 4 they should? On the same subject, why would you not want to be able to control the crossover?

I'll leave it at that for now, it feels like I'm failing to grasp even the basics, so if anyone could clear up some of the issues raised, I would be most grateful and then perhaps I can move on to trying to set it up properly.

Cheers :]

[russ.will]

You don't want to use the subs crossover controls because the amp is already doing it for you. It's rolling the speakers response off and the subs response in. You don't need the subs crossover confusing the issue too.

If the sub is adjacent to the main speakers, set the phase to zero degrees. This only leaves a combination of room positioning and the gain control to sort it's integration- Is it even enough (room position) is it's volume right (gain control). That's a good starting point.

Russell

[pinkoboe]

Thanks for the reply :]

So if the amp is controlling the cross over, is it not a bit crude just having a large and small setting for the speaker? I've checked the possible settings on the amp and there doesn't appear to be any further tuning possible.

[russ.will]

It's not really crude. The 80Hz crossover was chosen by people with massive brains and centuries of experience.

It diverts the deep bass away from the main speakers, prevents the sub from working too high into the aurally locatable frequencies and allows enough elbow room either side of the crossover for the crossover to remain smooth.

It may seem a little one size fits all, but as long as you're not messing with satellite speakers, it's a great place to start.

BTW, I can't believe the 5200 has no way of altering the crossover when the speakers are set to small. Look a little harder.

Russell

[pinkoboe]

Thanks for the reply Russell, in regards to the Marantz, there's certainly doesn't seem to be any reference to changing the crossover, what there is however is is a 'source direct' button which according to the manual does:

"...This bypasses the surround processing and crossover for the main speakers (front left and right will be full range and subwoofer will be on). Note: Surround mode cannot be changed in Source Direct mode."

Which sounds like it hands over the crossover setting to the sub, though I'm not quite sure what it means by surround processing...

Other than that, I'm able to set the distances for the speakers and individual +/- db increments for each speaker.

[Knyght_byte]

perhaps my memory is going but i dont seem to remember the crossover on the Quake interacting with the low level input at all......but its been a while since i sold it on.....