Setting sub level with RS SPL meter

[Tommy Angelo]

I'm using a radioshack analogue SPL meter to get the level right for my sub because I don't trust the auto setup on my Denon 3805. After auto setup the sub was reading as about 7db quieter than everything else and there didn't seem to be enough deep bass. I have my SVS PB10 EQ'd through a BFD and have a house curve that makes things a little louder as they get deeper.

I realise the deeper the frequency the lower the reading on the SPL meter will be and have used the correction values for setting up the BFD but how should I be setting the sub level with white/pink noise?

Any help will be appreciated,

Thanks,

Andrew

[Pulse1]

First of all put the meter at your central listening position at ear height facing straight up toward the ceiling.Then adjust all your speakers to read 75db using the amps internal test tone,Then using the internal test tone for the subwoofer adjust so that it centres at 75db also.You will notice that the subwoofer test tone varies about 4db-5db so u should set the needle to read between 73db and 77db with 75db being the reading inbetween.In otherwords adjust so that the needle bounces between 72-73db and 77-78db

Brian

[Tommy Angelo]

The needle hardly varies at all on my meter when the setting is on "slow" and not much more on "fast" setting. I need to know how much I should correct for when there is no specific frequency to go by because the radio shack SPL meter isn't accurate at low frequencies and the reading gets lower as the frequency drops.

[Nimby]

Originally Posted by Tommy Angelo

The needle hardly varies at all on my meter when the setting is on "slow" and not much more on "fast" setting. I need to know how much I should correct for when there is no specific frequency to go by because the radio shack SPL meter isn't accurate at low frequencies and the reading gets lower as the frequency drops.

Being horribly pedantic: The subwoofer relative level is a matter of taste.

It also depends on the quality of the subwoofer.

The better the sub the more bass you can easily tolerate relative to the speakers. IMO.

I am often surprised at how high I have my sub relative to the speakers.

Have your tried REW? This software allows you to see the level differences between your sub and main speakers.

[Tommy Angelo]

Yeah I've used REW to EQ the sub but the mains have so many tiny spikes and dips its not easy to see what level it's at. I suppose that's why white or pink noise is good to calibrate to as it gives an average across the range.

[russ.will]

Originally Posted by Tommy Angelo

The needle hardly varies at all on my meter when the setting is on "slow" and not much more on "fast" setting. I need to know how much I should correct for when there is no specific frequency to go by because the radio shack SPL meter isn't accurate at low frequencies and the reading gets lower as the frequency drops.

FWIW, I've found that in my room, with my system, with average UK weather conditions, that the RS SPL seems to under read by about 4-5dB. But as Nimby says, it's level is a matter of taste.

A rough rule of thumb is that if spoken male voices are starting to sound boomy/chesty, then it's probably too high. The BBC news is good for setting this although Fiona Bruce isn't much use in this respect.

I think REW allows you to switch to 1/3 octave smoothing (as opposed to 1/6) which might provide an easier to read response.

Russell

[Nimby]

Originally Posted by russ.will

I think REW allows you to switch to 1/3 octave smoothing (as opposed to 1/6) which might provide an easier to read response.

Russell

Took the words out of my mouth. Should we form a duo?

Smoothing will allow you to see the wood for the trees.

Get a feel for the average level of speakers and subwoofer.

Somewhere around +2dB - +5dB of the sub over the speakers sounds good on music to my ears. If your sub and you can stand it, then hotter still for films depending on listening level.

If you don't listen at high overall levels then you can get away with lots more bass. If you are a reference level fan then ease back on the subwoofer level quite a bit. Remember your favorite settings depending on level.

At low levels you need more bass to compensate for natural bass deafness of the human ear. At high overall sound levels your ears become ever more sensitive to bass. At about 90dB overall your ears are probably fairly flat in their response to the bass compared to the speakers.

As you have a BFD and have removed serious spikes form your sub's in-room response you can probably get away with higher sub levels than those who have not equalised their subs. They will have to adjust their sub levels depending on their loudest bass spikes.

The PB10 is a decent performer so that allows you some extra headroom over lesser subs. Play it by ear. If it sounds right to you then it is right. If you hear a knocking noise from the PB10 then you have definitely overdone it!

[Tommy Angelo]

Thanks guys, I should re-EQ the sub anyway because the room has had a bit of a makeover so I'll set the level with 1/3 octave smoothing at the same time.

[Timbo21]

Originally Posted by russ.will

A rough rule of thumb is that if spoken male voices are starting to sound boomy/chesty, then it's probably too high. The BBC news is good for setting this although Fiona Bruce isn't much use in this respect.

I think the above is a good point. There is probably a window of tolerance which will work, depending on personal taste. However, if you are using something like an 80hz xover voices will start to sound boomy, and lose clarity at a certain point. I think some put so much emphasis on their bass that they forget what a spoken voice is meant to sound like.

T.

[russ.will]

Originally Posted by Nimby

Took the words out of my mouth. Should we form a duo?

No. This is an AV forum, not help the aged.

Russell

[russ.will]

Originally Posted by Timbo21

I think the above is a good point. There is probably a window of tolerance which will work, depending on personal taste. However, if you are using something like an 80hz xover voices will start to sound boomy, and lose clarity at a certain point. I think some put so much emphasis on their bass that they forget what a spoken voice is meant to sound like.

T.

This is where I frequently find myself out of step with the bassheads. If it doesn't sound realistic, then you've over done it. Period.

House/custom curves should cut in below the point where the distortion of voice kicks in, otherwise you're sacrificing the intelligibility of dialogue for the sake of kick in the guts bass. This point varies from room to room and therefore, there's no hard and fast about it.

The two qualities are not mutually exclusive and one should not be emphasised at the expense of the other. It takes some experimentation, but deep bass that only kicks in when demanded is far more impressive than deep bass, all of the time.

Listen to the Beebs news and part way through, turn your sub off. If it sounds much clearer, then chances are you've over done it. If it starts to sounds thin and nasal, then it was probably about right. This is obviously very dependent upon the sub/speaker combo in question, but we all know what a human voice sounds like. It's an obvious reference and a useful one.

It's also affected by the crossover point between sub and speakers. To my mind, it's a good gauge of where your particular package is best crossed over. If voice makes the sub sound aurally locatable, it's a good indication of a crap crosser point, crap sub, or the sub being set to too high a gain. Add this to about a thousand other considerations.

Russell

[Nimby]

Originally Posted by russ.will

No. This is an AV forum, not help the aged.

Russell

Cheeky sod! I taught you everything you know...

And you still know ... all!

Peaks in a sub's or speaker's response can easily cause your voice "woolliness" at lower levels than with an equalised subwoofer.

Interestingly (?) the female voice often has higher bass content tha the male. The female voice tending to have richer harmonics than men's.

I heard that on the BBC.

[Timbo21]

Originally Posted by Nimby

Interestingly (?) the female voice often has higher bass content tha the male. The female voice tending to have richer harmonics than men's.

That is just wrong

I heard that on the BBC.

Are you sure it wasn't your wife?

[Nimby]

Originally Posted by Timbo21

That is just wrong

Nope.

[Gregory]

Hmm,

The female voice content sounded just about credible - maybe at lower individual harmonics or whatever. Enough for me to want to do a quick trawl before discounting. Found an article here that seems to indicate that it is as one would expect - male voices have more bass. Also visible in recording info - see here

Cheers

Greg