REL Q100E - where to set the crossover?

[bbanduser]

Hi guys,
I have a REL Q100E, which I love a lot,but am having problems setting up correctly. Lots of guys have the sub and a similar setup,so am hoping for some help here.
My setup is as folows:
I have a pair of B&W 602S3's as my fronts and the CDM NT SE as my centre. I have set all of them up as large and set the crossover on the amp as 80Hz. I have also set up the LFE to be sent to the sub and the mains.

Now on the Rel, I have got the low level connection as normal from the amp(Denon 3802), but I also have got a high level connection from the amp via the neutric cable. The low level volume is set to the 11 o'clock posiion,and the high level volume to the 11 o'clock position. The depth option is also selected.
It should be bourne in mind that the 602S3's go down to about 50 Hz.
Now how do I set the crossover? Since I have the high level connection, if I set the crossover to the max, the full range of frequencies going to the front speakers will also be going to the sub,and hence there is a risk of 'double bass' from the sub and the front. What I want is that during music(which I listen to in Stereo mode), the sub should also pick up the frquencies under 50 Hz. Am I right in my logic?

If I am, how do you find out where the 50 Hz mark on the Q100E? There are o figures at all next to the know which controls the crossover, so how do I find out?

Lastly, I want to set the crossover to about 65Hz,as I think the 602S3's will not perform very well when it comes to near the bottom frequencies. Can someone please comment on this? Am I being too negative about the abilities of the 602's?

Looking forward to the responses.

[Ettepet]

I would not use the LARGE setting for the B&W's, and opt for a 80Hz crossover. Let the sub handle the range it was built for. The extra 50Hz-80Hz range of your fronts is needed for a fluent crossover anyway.

[bbanduser]

The B&W's do go down to 49 Hz. I did ask about this and was told that the 602S3's should be set as large. Why do you think that this should be set to small? Any particular reason?

[Stereo Steve]

By default, setting the speakers to Large on the amp should defeat the crossover and send the full signal to the fronts I think. In my system I have the fronts set to small with the crossover at 60 and the subs crossover at 60. This gives me plenty of thump for movies. For music I use the analogue outs of my DVD and use the bass management on that to set the speakers to small. I beleive the xover on this is at 80 but it seems to taper off significantly lower and I find bringing the xover on the sub up to 80 gives me a muddy sound.

Less is definately more with subs. It should be there to beef up your main speakers, not replace them. I only use the low level cable but I can see the point of the high level one if you don't have good bass management on your dvd/cd.

[Ian J]

Originally posted by Stereo Steve
For music I use the analogue outs of my DVD and use the bass management on that to set the speakers to small.

I started off doing that but found that by using the digital connector and letting the amp decode the stereo signal gave much better sound.

I am using a Pioneer 656 and Denon AVC10SE

[bbanduser]

I set the fronts as large is because I wanted my fronts to handle frequencies below 80HZ(till about 60Hz) but the lowest crossover my amp allows me to set is 80Hz.

Hence I want my system to do this:

From 80Hz to 20,000 Hz, all speakers should reproduce these frequencies.Hence I have set the crossover to 80Hz and the surrounds to small.
From 50 Hz (the frequency my fronts go down to) to 80 Hz I want the fronts to handle it. Hence I have set my fronts as large and the LFE to (sub + Mains).
From 50Hz downwards, I want the sub to handle it.

Actually I want the sub to start around 60Hz,as I don't want to push the fronts to the extreme.
This configuration should work for both movies and music. Towards this I have both high and low level connection. I reckon if I set the crossover on the sub to around 60Hz, all of it should work as I want.
Now my problem,as I mentioned in my first post, is that the Q100 does not have any numbers on the crossover,just marks. So how do I know where 60Hz is?

If anyone wants to comment on the settings or expectations of my system, please go ahead.

[Ettepet]

Originally posted by bbanduser
The B&W's do go down to 49 Hz. I did ask about this and was told that the 602S3's should be set as large. Why do you think that this should be set to small? Any particular reason?

You seem to think that a crossover is a very abrupt transition from one speaker to the other. This isn't the case, as you will find out when setting all speakers to small and switching off the sub. At 80Hz crossover the lacking bass will be there, but not as noticable as it is now. Your 602S3's are normal speakers, with normal specs, so I would treat them in that way. Not that it isn't fun or educational to experiment in these matters.

[Stereo Steve]

Yes, this is true. I find that setting the amp xover at 80 and the sub at 80 makes my music muddy although gives a nice effect for movies. I have to back the xover on the sub down to 60-70 to clean up the music sound.

Ian, I too used my processors dacs when I had a 656 and 747 but I have just got a 2900 and find the analogue outputs are as good as digital to my 1066. So I use the 5.1 inputs for CD/SACD and DVD-A as it simplifies things greatly. It also gives me a chance to set different crossover points for music and movies.

[Ettepet]

Originally posted by Stereo Steve
Yes, this is true. I find that setting the amp xover at 80 and the sub at 80 makes my music muddy although gives a nice effect for movies. I have to back the xover on the sub down to 60-70 to clean up the music sound.

You mean you use both the crossover on the sub and on your pre-amplifier? I don't know exactly how the bass management works on your Rotel, but typically you should set the subs crossover to "infinity" if you don't want to lose part of your LFE signal.

I have experimented a lot also, and the month before I got my BFD I used a similar trick to defeat room-gain around 70 - 84 Hz. You're still losing signal though.

[bbanduser]

Since I sm using the high level connection,and I set the crossover to infinity as you say, when listening to stereo, I will have a lot of high frequency being reproduced by the sub,as the full signal is sent to the sub as well,and I do not want that.

The 602's are quite bassy speakers,and since they go down to 0Hz, I don't clearly understand why they should be defined as large speakers.

[ShinObiWAN]

Originally posted by bbanduser
The 602's are quite bassy speakers,and since they go down to 0Hz, I don't clearly understand why they should be defined as large speakers.

They go down 0hz!!!

Thats DC, there are very few occurances of this but generally its something huge and dramatic when it does happen. Like the space shuttle taking off or an earthquake etc.

I'm guessing at this point that it was a typo?

[bbanduser]

sorry I meant 50hz!