[Andywilliams]

Originally Posted by Oakey

Had the same problem back in April and only just got round to arranging to send it back. Imagine my horror when I'd discovered the price had now practically doubled!!

Sorry, but it's a complete rip off. We've seen on various threads here that Kef were repairing these for free, then they introduced a £50 fee, now it's £90!! My only guess is that the system is reaching that age where more and more of them are failing and they see it as a bit of a cash cow. A three year lifepsan for a piece of hardware that the majority of audio retailers were trying damned hard to sell at nothing less than £1000 (with the exception of Creative Audio) is pathetic.

Not only that, but this is a blatant issue with the system, this isn't wear or tear or damage caused by a user, this is an obvious fault that a lot of owners are seeing. It's blatantly poor quality control and why should the consumers have to pay for it?

Also, if you read threads like this:

KEF PSW 2000 repair time

you'll see that one owner had his sub repaired for free, and this was at the end of June 2007!!

Hardly seems consistent!

I thought that on reading this thread i wouldnt be happy full stop its a kef sub problem people have been sold inferior goods they got money for the sub now getting money for the repairs on parts they know where faulty in the first place .

[Oakey]

Here are my issues with this.

Three years ago most retailers were insisting on nothing less than £1000 for the Eggs. Creative Audio took a lot of flak for selling them at £600 and in the end Kef forced them to increase their price to £800. I was lucky that I managed to get them at £600 before the new price took effect. Now, three years later the same Eggs are still being sold new for £600!! The fact that the Eggs are still commanding the same price now as they were three years ago (ignoring the inflated price fixing £1000 other retailers were selling them at) should say a lot. Anything else would have come down in price significantly, but not the Eggs. The fact the price remains would suggest Kef believe they're selling a high quality product.

So if they're such a high quality product why were they built with inferior components that were failing left, right and centre for a multitude of owners?

This isn't a case of someone sticking their finger through the cone and wanting it repaired, this is a KNOWN issue that Kef have been fully aware of for at least the last two years. Why on earth should consumers have to pay for a repair of something that's a known fault for merely using the equipment as it's supposed to be?

Not only that, to add further insult to injury Kef seem to be completely inconsitstent with the way they handle these repairs. Some owners had the sub repaired for free, others had no choice but to pay £50 with Kef not budging on the fee, as of May 1st 2007 it became £90+VAT to have the sub repaired and yet one owner who'd had his Eggs for five years had his faulty sub repaired for free in June 07. It's completely and utterly ridiculous.

May I just all remind you of the Sales of Goods Act:

http://www.dti.gov.uk/consumers/fact...page38311.html

Specifically:

• Wherever goods are bought they must "conform to contract". This means they must be as described, [fit for purpose and of satisfactory quality (i.e. not inherently faulty at the time of sale).

• Goods are of satisfactory quality if they reach the standard that a reasonable person would regard as satisfactory, taking into account the price and any description

• For up to six years after purchase (five years from discovery in Scotland) purchasers can demand damages (which a court would equate to the cost of a repair or replacement).

• In general, the onus is on all purchasers to prove the goods did not conform to contract (e.g. was inherently faulty) and should have reasonably lasted until this point in time (i.e. perishable goods do not last for six years).

[Gordie]

Hi Oakey

I blame myself to be honest. I should simply have turned round and told Ben if it was costing £105.75 to repair my sub, then just bin it and I will go elsewhere. Maybe he would have reviewed his bill - maybe not.

The main problem was that I didn't have the kind of money available at the time to buy a equal to, or better than replacement - and I couldn't live without it.

Gordie

[Oakey]

It's scandalous and I have it on good authority that HUNDREDS of people have suffered this exact fault with the PSW 2010. Now, if that was a car with such an inherent fault that caused it to completely fail due to being operated as it was intended there'd be a recall. Customers SHOULD NOT have to be paying for the shoddy component quality Kef built this equipment from.

[Nimby]

Though it's precious little consolation, if you've been stung by KEF, remember that your posts are being read by quite a few people. No doubt they will all think twice about the purchase of any KEF product in future. Knowing how this company has dealt with their customers when they had a known fault is a great incentive to give this company a very wide berth. It is tragic that a previously reputable company which has been trading for this long should treat its customers in such a callous manner.

Can it have completely escaped their notice that they are almost continuously discussed for negative reasons on a popular UK based AV forum? I doubt that these customer service problems would ever be mentioned in any of the AV magazines if they are supported by KEF advertising. There lies the strength of the online forum system.

How much longer before the Trading Standards Office gets involved? If you don't complain they wont start building a file and you won't have your unnecessary bills repaid.

[CasDon]

How much longer before the Trading Standards Office gets involved?

Well I have the 2005.2's, and from what I understand the problems with the sub happen if its left powered on auto.
Cos I'm a tight git I leave the bare minimum kit on standby so as the HC + the sub is one of the less frequently used pieces of kit is goes off by the switch.

However the way the manual is written it makes the auto/manual setting sound like that will turn the sub into standby.

I'm with you Nimby, if people complain to trading standards then before long KEF will have to do something.

Just for interest (think its section 14) in the sale of goods act it says that goods actually should be fit for purpose and free of faults for upto 6 years and within this period especially if its a known design fault then the consumer is entitle to a repair or replacement at the expense of the retailer/manufacturer.

[Oakey]

Originally Posted by CasDon

Well I have the 2005.2's, and from what I understand the problems with the sub happen if its left powered on auto.
Cos I'm a tight git I leave the bare minimum kit on standby so as the HC + the sub is one of the less frequently used pieces of kit is goes off by the switch.

However the way the manual is written it makes the auto/manual setting sound like that will turn the sub into standby.

I'm with you Nimby, if people complain to trading standards then before long KEF will have to do something.

Just for interest (think its section 14) in the sale of goods act it says that goods actually should be fit for purpose and free of faults for upto 6 years and within this period especially if its a known design fault then the consumer is entitle to a repair or replacement at the expense of the retailer/manufacturer.

If that isn't the purpose of the Auto mode then what is it for? Having a mode that appears to be a Standby that really isn't and can damage the hardware isn't acceptable in my opinion.

[Gordie]

What annoyed me was that when I sent my sub back for repair, I specifically said on my letter enclosed that I had sent it back for an estimate and asked them to contact me with the repair cost. The first phone call I got from Ben was to say that the unit had been repaired and it was ready to ship - just awaiting payment via debit card. Thats when I got told how much it was. What would have happened if I said no, that's too expensive - just send it back to me.

If the sub was intended to be switched off after each use, then why put a auto switch on the bloddy thing. And why put the power button on the back near the bottom. I have to sit and stare at the back of my sub cause I didn't want to move it everytime I wanted to switch it on/off.

Rant over - at least its working. But I wont be buying Kef again.

[T0rNaDo]

mine went a little while back.

i was told it was because i left it on auto...

the guy at kef told me leaving the sub on auto.

is like leaving your car running in neutral

he said it far better to turn it off when not in use.
as it will last much much longer.

i sent just the panel back, but repair cost was £105
because leaving it on all the time doing nothing. did the power supply in too.

yes its a pain having to turn it on when you need it.

i was thinking on using the power ouput of my amp to the sub.
so when you turn the amp on the sub will come on too.
but the amp output is only 100w....
i think the sub is way more then that.

could get a remote power plug..... to remotely switch the power on/off to the sub.
something like this

if it can handle the power the sub needs.

or if available a power switching pcb..

where when power is sent to it ( from the amps 230v 100w output )
it switches to let the mains power feed to the board goto the sub..

like in picture.

bit like something you use between a projector and electric screen.
so when you power on the projector thescreen comes down automatically

[Oakey]

Originally Posted by T0rNaDo

the guy at kef told me leaving the sub on auto.

is like leaving your car running in neutral

he said it far better to turn it off when not in use.

What a load of crap! Did you ask him what the purpose of the Auto function was then? I'd love to hear them explain that one.

Leaving your car running in neutral is nothing like leaving a piece of equipment in standby, mainly because the car is still running at the same capacity as if you were driving it!

[T0rNaDo]

no i didnt ask...

he basicly said that leaving it in auto means that when no signal is received by the sub for 45mins it switches to stand by...

basicly like a mute.
but the sub is still powered up and using power. and the psu is still in use and hot..

i have mine set to auto and use to leave it on. until it went and cost me £105 to repair.

i now turn it off when not in use
until i can set up a way for amp or a remote plug to do the job..

[Nimby]

Presumably these subs were bought from AV retailers.

What support have they offered for their fat profit on this sub?

We even had one of them charging a fee for returning a broken sub.

If it aint broke you don't need to mend it! Certainly not set up a conveyor belt to mass produce repairs!

On the very rare occasion that a BK or SVS sub had a problem the free replacement part was in the post before the ink had dried on the owner's email. That's what I call real service. Not how well KEF handles yet another repair at the customer's considerable expense.

[recruit]

Originally Posted by Oakey

What a load of crap! Did you ask him what the purpose of the Auto function was then? I'd love to hear them explain that one.

Leaving your car running in neutral is nothing like leaving a piece of equipment in standby, mainly because the car is still running at the same capacity as if you were driving it!

Mod Comment - Oakey could you please tone down you're posting style as it seems to be moveing towards abusive.

[Oakey]

Originally Posted by recruit

Mod Comment - Oakey could you please tone down you're posting style as it seems to be moveing towards abusive.

I think you're mis-reading my post. The load of crap comment is aimed at the Kef rep's analogy that leaving the sub in auto is the same as leaving your car in neutral, because it is just that, complete crap.

Now, if they'd explained how their auto mode actually worked in the first place, rather than telling people after the fact that it's not actually a standby then I might understand their argument.

I mean honestly, what reason could you possibly have to think I'm accusing the poster of talking a load of crap?

[recruit]

Originally Posted by Oakey

I think you're mis-reading my post. The load of crap comment is aimed at the Kef rep's analogy that leaving the sub in auto is the same as leaving your car in neutral, because it is just that, complete crap.

Now, if they'd explained how their auto mode actually worked in the first place, rather than telling people after the fact that it's not actually a standby then I might understand their argument.

I mean honestly, what reason could you possibly have to think I'm accusing the poster of talking a load of crap?

I knew exactly who you are aiming you're words at, now please tone it down or else i will have to issue an infraction.

I just purchased the kef 3005 kit...

i think i might have a phoney sub, as it makes a loud rumble even when the amp is not on,

i think i traced the problem to the sub-interconnect, when i move it or nudge it, the rumbling stops...

Will check with another sub-cable.... surely i cant have a faulty sub, i havnt even had a chance to use it yet...

[gzed]

Originally Posted by ashvin

I just purchased the kef 3005 kit...

i think i might have a phoney sub, as it makes a loud rumble even when the amp is not on,

i think i traced the problem to the sub-interconnect, when i move it or nudge it, the rumbling stops...

Will check with another sub-cable.... surely i cant have a faulty sub, i havnt even had a chance to use it yet...

At least yours is still under warranty....

[Andywilliams]

Originally Posted by ashvin

I just purchased the kef 3005 kit...

i think i might have a phoney sub, as it makes a loud rumble even when the amp is not on,

i think i traced the problem to the sub-interconnect, when i move it or nudge it, the rumbling stops...

Will check with another sub-cable.... surely i cant have a faulty sub, i havnt even had a chance to use it yet...

If i was you id sell the sub on ebay and buy another manufacturers sub which will last you longer than when the warranty runs out which nearly always seems to happen.
Andy.

[balders]

Another 2010 one gone here too, 6 months after the 3 yr warranty expired. It just hums loudly whenever it's switched on. I've taken it back to my AV retailers who have sent the amp unit back to kef. It's already had the amp replaced around 18 months ago.

I'm hoping it will get repaired at no cost to me, but if not, has anyone had any success with the Sale of Goods Act regarding one of these subs? What's a "Reasonable time" for a subwoofer to last. I would expect at least 5 years.

If Kef insist on charging me for the repair, I'll be telling them not to bother and using the dosh to buy a better sub.

Balders.

[T0rNaDo]

i was told the sats in the kit had a 5 year warranty. and the sub only had 1 year....

[Oakey]

Another thread here:

Faulty Kef sub

from someone who has just had their faulty sub repaired and returned, seems he also had it fixed for free.

I think this is a total joke, Kef's inconsistent take on the situation is disgusting. Either they do it for free or they charge people, it shouldn't be some kind of pot luck. Also, increasing the price from £50 to £90 just adds further insult.

I've tried to get through to their service Dept all afternoon and no one ever picks up.

[Crustyloafer]

Originally Posted by T0rNaDo

i was told the sats in the kit had a 5 year warranty. and the sub only had 1 year....

That is correct.

[balders]

CrustyLoafer,

What's the AV trade view on whether it's acceptable for customers to claim under the Sale Of Goods Act for items like this that fail outside of warranty but within a "reasonable" time limit.

Would the trader actually end up out of pocket, or can the cost of clawed back from the likes of Kef?

I'd rather not resort to quoting the SoGA to my retailer if kef do want to charge me for a repair. They're a nice bunch of chaps that have been only too helpful with looking at my sub and sending it back to Kef. At the end of the day though, I do feel it's an inherently faulty product, and our consumer rights are there to protect us from this.

Cheers,

Balders.

[Crustyloafer]

Originally Posted by balders

What's the AV trade view on whether it's acceptable for customers to claim under the Sale Of Goods Act for items like this that fail outside of warranty but within a "reasonable" time limit
.

This is a difficult question to answer and I must tread lightly with regards to how I structure my answer. There are several factors to the SOGA, some of which can conflict with each other slightly. The following two Qs and As are an example of this.

Q1. What is an inherent fault?

A fault present at the time of purchase. Examples are:
• an error in design so that a product is manufactured incorrectly
• an error in manufacturing where a faulty component was inserted.
The "fault" may not become apparent immediately but it was there at the time of sale and so the product was not of satisfactory standard.

Q13. What does the "reversed burden of proof" mean for the consumer?

It means that for the first six months the consumer need not produce any evidence that a product was inherently faulty at the time of sale. If a consumer is seeking any other remedy the burden of proof remains with him/her.

In such a case, the retailer will either accept there was an inherent fault, and will offer a remedy, or he will dispute that it was inherently flawed. If the latter, when he inspects the product to analyse the cause, he may, for example, point out impact damage or stains that would be consistent with it having been mistreated in such a way as to bring about the fault.

This reversal of the usual burden of proof only applies when the consumer is seeking a repair or replacement. After the first six months the onus of proof is again on the consumer.

If there were thought to be an inherent fault within a product and ownership of the product is longer than 6 months then the burden of proof that the fault was present from the time of sales lies with the consumer. Therefore after 6 months of ownership the trader has every right to duspute that the fault was present at the time of purchase unless proof of the situation being otherwise is provided. It is unfortunate that this is the case but it is human nature that the trader feels hard done by when they end up footing the bill for faulty products that they neither designed or manufactured themselves and therefore had no direct input over how reliable they were likely to be.

Originally Posted by balders

I'd rather not resort to quoting the SoGA to my retailer if kef do want to charge me for a repair. They're a nice bunch of chaps that have been only too helpful with looking at my sub and sending it back to Kef. At the end of the day though, I do feel it's an inherently faulty product, and our consumer rights are there to protect us from this.

It is a tricky situation and it depends on how your dealer react to such situations and how much your value them as a dealer. If the unit is over 6 months old then burden of proof is on you to show that it is inherently faulty and was faulty from the date of the sale. Some dealers, myself included, try to balance the situation by making the repair procedure as painless as possible and only ever charging the exact amount that the replacement parts are charged to us at. I do not charge for diagnosing, fitting the parts or bench testing the unit afterwards. I feel this level of service usually finds favour with most of my customers.

[balders]

Thanks for the reasoned reply Crustyloafer. It's good to hear the view from the retailer's side.

I agree it's a tricky situation, and in my view, the fault lies with Kef for producing a unit that seems to be failing at a much high rate than average. I really do think it's their responsibility to fix the units that have broken, and shouldn't be down to the retailers or consumers to foot the bill. Trouble is, us consumers don't seem to have any comeback against the manufacturer, only the retailer, which is a shame.

I guess it does eventually cost Kef (or any other manufacturer) when retailers stop stocking their products because they are too much hassle a few years down the line.

Thanks again,

Balders.

[tukky142]

I have a psw 2010 which has the same syptoms - I purchased it in Dec 2003 - I phoned Kef today and was told that I cant send it to them direct due to problems with damage and going a-stray so I have to take it into the retaler I bought it from. They have gone bust and have been took over by another retailer who wont open for a week or so - they did say they would look at it and send it back if need be. - Doesnt feel like great customer care from Kef!

Originally Posted by ashvin

I just purchased the kef 3005 kit...

i think i might have a phoney sub, as it makes a loud rumble even when the amp is not on,

i think i traced the problem to the sub-interconnect, when i move it or nudge it, the rumbling stops...

Will check with another sub-cable.... surely i cant have a faulty sub, i havnt even had a chance to use it yet...

Tested the sub with a £15 cable rather then the QED £45 cable i purchased, and the SUB if fine, no problems now...

At first, i couldnt hear it, so i turned up the gain from the amp to +8db, and its lovely, VERY IMPRESSED with the deep rumble....

[18j]

just got off the phone to kef and they reckon that my unit is unrepairable as its burnt out which i find hard to believe as it was not used regularly, quoted £105+ to send me a new unit.. not very happy at this

[gzed]

Originally Posted by 18j

just got off the phone to kef and they reckon that my unit is unrepairable as its burnt out which i find hard to believe as it was not used regularly, quoted £105+ to send me a new unit.. not very happy at this

Hum, £105 for a new unit and some of us have paid £90 to have it repaired (the electronic part). This is not right...

[Oakey]

Originally Posted by gzed

Hum, £105 for a new unit and some of us have paid £90 to have it repaired (the electronic part). This is not right...

Not to mention Tukky142 who was told they can't repair it for him quoting pathetic excuses such as 'damage' (it's already damaged!!) and 'going astray' (hmm, really, when using a courier?).

Kef's service sucks, their stories are never consistent. We've got people being offered replacement units for £105, we've got them quoting £90+VAT for a repair (when only a few months ago it was £50), we've had members get their units repaired for FREE and we've had one member be told they can't repair it.

I'd love to hear some kind of explanation from Kef as to all the different responses people get told when they have a faulty 2010.