[Sonnie Parker]

I'm posting this info in this forum because there appears to be more posts related to the BFD here than any other forum here on AVF.

I have spoken with Behringer and they have shown serious interest in designing a replacement for the BFD that is more suited to the consumer market. As many of you may already know... the DSP1124 has been discontinued. The replacement FBQ2496 only offers 1 preset and still doesn't get us many of the needed features for a total sub eq package.

This is not something to necessarily compete with the Velo SMS-1. We are trying to keep the street price around $150-200, which includes a built-in mic amp with phantom power and a built-in SPL meter... the recommended Behringer ECM8000 mic would be extra if you need one (~$50 at Parts Express). We would continue to recommend using RoomEQ Wizard as the software program of choice due to its increasing and overwhelming popularity.

This is something we are pretty optimistic about. Keep in mind that the consumer HT world is what put the BFD on the map. Therefore Behringer has interest.

At this point in time we have no set time frame as to when we could expect this unit to hit the shelves. After the suggested features are submitted we hope to get a general idea of a time frame. Behringer has many of these features already incorporated in their various products, so we are hoping it would not be a long drawn out process.

Here are the features we are considering at present. We are looking for suggestions, comments, recommendations, etc. Remember to keep in mind the target street price. KISS!

Proposal for the BSE2496C (Behringer Sub Equalizer 24/96 Consumer)

The consumer home theater world has for several years used the BFD DSP1124P as a parametric sub eq to level out the response of their sub(s). The unit has been extremely popular and continues to be the popular choice for sub equalization, where it can be found, being that it has been recently discontinued.

We are basing the BSE2496C (Behringer Sub EQ 24/96 Consumer) on similarities to several of your products such as the former DSP1124, the current FBQ2496, DEQ2496 and DCX2496, none of which fit our needs precisely. Following is a list of features in four categories, the first being features in the DSP1124 and/or the FBQ2496 that we would like to keep as they are. Second are the essential features we would like, as well as several requested changes from the current BFD units. These are what we consider the must haves, if at all possible. Third are features/changes that we would like, but could live without if we just had too, although we believe they should have a minimal cost factor and might be easier included than we think. Fourth are features available in other Behringer models or new features that we would like to be considered, but could be reserved for a second higher-end model if they will cause the target unit to exceed our target price.

We are not requesting a software program due to the free availability of the RoomEQ Wizard program. The target price we would like to see is $200-250 retail which will allow for a street price of approximately $150-200. It is imperative that we keep the cost to a minimum, as this is and always has been the driving force behind BFD sales in the home theater world. The majority of BFD 1124 owners were able to acquire their unit for $100-125.

Features on the DSP1124 and/or FBQ2496 we would like to keep:
~ Two independent channels.
~ A minimum of twelve parametric filters per channel (20 per channel is good too).
~ Channel coupling and series looping.
~ Three-way IN/OUT bypass.
~ Input/output LED level indicators.
~ LED filter indicators for both channels.
~ Front panel display.
~ Retain normal required buttons and jog dial.
~ 24-bit/96 kHz A/D and D/A converter powered by a 32-bit DSP.
~ Internal switch-mode power supply (100 - 240 V~ / 50-60hz).
~ Low power consumption.
~ Adjustable input level (-10dBV / +4dBu) on rear.
~ Hard bypass relay.
~ Noise-free.
~ 107db dynamic range.
~ 0.007% THD.
~ High-quality components.
~ High-quality construction.
~ Balanced XLR inputs/outputs.
~ One year warranty.


Essential features and changes that we would like and should have a very minimal cost factor:
~ Soft power ON/OFF with selectable Auto-On detect via sub signal.
~ Eliminate turn-on thump and ground hum.
~ Double insulated chassis with a two prong plug or a ground lift switch if needed to eliminate hum.
~ Pure flat frequency response from 10hz to 20khz* (FBQ2496 is -3db @ 20hz).
~ Filter adjustment capabilities from 10hz to 20khz*.
~ Adjustable gain range from -24db to +16db for each filter.
~ Minimum of 4 to 6 memory presets.
~ Replace ¼ inch inputs/outputs with RCA inputs/outputs.
~ Simple shelf filter… (i.e. selectable linear boost between two selectable frequencies).
~ Selectable and/or variable 6db-48db/octave subsonic roll-off filter from 35hz to 10hz (minimum 5hz increments).
~ Time delay from 0 to 30msec or 1 foot increments w/ 0.1 foot fine up to 30 feet.
~ Variable phase correction/adjustment from 0-180.
~ Front panel USB and/or RS-232 interface for MIDI port (place under small flip cover like on computers).
~ Dimmable front panel LED’s / lights with OFF option.
~ Soft blue and/or green LED’s on front panel vs. red.
~ Offer unit in black or silver… if not optional, offer only in black.
~ Revamp chassis for home theater consumer appearance vs. pro-audio style.
~ Allow mounting brackets to be optional (include unattached).
~ Enclose/fill gaps on sides if mounting brackets are removed.
~ Add rubber feet to allow placement on top of other equipment.
~ Remove graphic design from top of unit.

* If it will save cost, limiting the upper frequency response and filter capabilities to 400hz is acceptable.

With the above features and changes this unit should sell like a hot potato at a steak house. We believe these are reasonable features for a street priced unit at $150-200.


Requested features/changes that won’t make or break the unit, but would be nice to have if minimal cost factor:
~ Anti-clipping mechanism with higher dynamic peak input before clipping.
~ Frequency readout in hertz instead of base + fine… (1hz increments w/ 0.1hz fine increments).
~ Bandwidth readout in octaves (1/3,1/6,1/24,1/1, etc.) or hertz (2hz,5hz,12hz,etc.) instead of 1/60, 10/60, 60/60, etc.
~ Front panel volume/gain to control output level to sub.
~ Ability to slave multiple units together.
~ Linkwitz transform circuit.
~ Detachable power cord.


Next are the more elaborate features that you already have in some of your units, plus a few other added requested features, but we are uncertain as to the cost of these features and whether it would cause the new unit to exceed our target street price of $150-200. It may be that we could stand a street price of $250 (retail $299) with these extra features. We assume it would depend on your cost to integrate them into the new unit. Or if feasible, offer the above in one unit and add these features to another unit at a higher cost.

Elaborate requested features with unknown cost factor for implementation (in order of relevance):
~ Individual crossover filters (Butterworth, Bessel, Linkwitz-Riley) per channel w/ selectable roll-off 6db-48db/octave.
~ Adjustable/variable crossover range (low pass and high pass from 20hz to 200hz and w/ bypass).
~ Built-in RTA mic/line input w/ phantom power and w/ GAIN control.
~ Built-in SPL meter with selectable dBA/dBC/OFF weighting.
~ Built-in test tones (sinewaves – individual 1hz increments and sweep from 5hz to 400hz or 5hz to 20khz).
~ Separate RCA mic monitoring and test tone output to allow for computer program monitoring.
~ Locate RTA mic/line inputs and RCA monitoring outputs on the front face plate under a small flip cover.
~ Video output for monitoring the display would be nice, but the cost factor may prohibit this.
~ Video display instead of LED’s… (dimmable and selectable OFF).
~ Small and simple 6 button wireless IR remote with discrete ON/OFF buttons and Preset 1,2,3,4 buttons.
~ Rear IR jack for remote control… to use with repeaters.
~ Add volume/gain control button to remote if feature is made available.
~ Add other control buttons to remote if cost feasible.
~ Fully integrated software program (something similar to RoomEQ Wizard).
~ Auto-EQ (with ability to manually adjust suggested filters).



NOTE: I do not work for Behringer or anyone else. When I say "we" this and "we" that... I am referring to what the majority has voiced thus far. Just like I have never been paid for the BFD GUIDE or the BFD FORUM... I am not getting paid to do this. It is because of the GUIDE and FORUM that I have a strong voice with Behringer, but it is because of YOU and the HT world that we can have the opportunity to have a new product designed. It won't get to market because of me... it will succeed because of you. It will benefit me no more than anyone else that has interest... but it is fun and it will be a huge benefit to all of us looking for such a product.

Thanks!

[SimonO]

I can't add anything to that list, when can I buy one !!!

[LostCause]

Hi Sonnie,

Sounds grand and the lead time is......

Midi fine, works with current software. Consumer wise I would think seriously about including the USB, if its only a couple of quid either way it would be better to have than not.

[Sonnie Parker]

I wanted one yesterday!

I hope this year sometime... they already have most all of these features in one product or another. We just gotta get them to put them into a new box for us.

[eviljohn2]

Sounds spot on to me. Maybe improve the SNR if possible.

[petrolhead]

Why up to 400htz?

[Hungry Horace]

So that you can dial in a house curve I guess

[ghislain]

Sonnie,

Great initiative!
Nothing that I can add to the technical specs.

Maybe obvious but I did not see it in the list:

- Universal power input (110-220V/50-60Hz)
- Replace green/red leds by blue/yellow ones (more appropriate in HT environment)

Edit

- Give it some proper feet so that it can be installed safely on top of other equipment

[SimonO]

Originally Posted by ghislain

...Give it some proper feet so that it can be installed safely on top of other equipment...

I stuck some rubber feet on the bottom of mine, good call ghislain...

[Mr Cat]

I'm not an expert on these - but can you answer this (no one else has!!) - can it handle me setup in the sense that when I listen to cds I connect my sub via speaker level (to my power amp) and when I watch dvds I connect it to my av amp via a phono connection..?

cheers

[eviljohn2]

Originally Posted by ghislain

- Replace green/red leds by blue/yellow ones (more appropriate in HT environment)

I would be more interested in a dimmable display.

Mr Cat, no product of this type will work with high-level speaker connection I'm afraid. It would have to be enormous to cope with the power being supplied through it.

[Sonnie Parker]

Originally Posted by eviljohn2

Sounds spot on to me. Maybe improve the SNR if possible.

It should be better than the 1124, equal to the 2496, but that's really more than we need for sub frequencies.

Originally Posted by petrolhead

Why up to 400htz?

Hungry Horace got it... to allow a shelf filter for the house curve.

Originally Posted by ghislain

- Universal power input (110-220V/50-60Hz)
- Replace green/red leds by blue/yellow ones (more appropriate in HT environment)
- Give it some proper feet so that it can be installed safely on top of other equipment

Excellent suggestions! Thanks!

[AngelEyes]

Sorry if this is stupid suggestion but could you allow multiple simultaneous inputs so ppl with processor & power amps can work on their other speakers?

I have room issues with my fronts

Is this even possible?

[LostCause]

Two independant channels with 12 parametric filters each (allow coupling) using 24 bit / 96Khz sampling.

Angel, I think this suggests what your looking for. However more inputs would equal higher price tag. At the current suggested level you could have at least 4 of the for the price of the velo's sms and that only applies the same setting to the 4 inputs.

[Sonnie Parker]

Let's see if we've gotten this thing closer... what am I missing?

This is as if I were sending it to Behringer... the introduction is longer but I won't bore you with all of it.

We are basing the BSE2496C (Behringer Sub EQ 24/96 Consumer) on similarities to several of your products such as the former DSP1124, the current FBQ2496, DEQ2496 and DCX2496, none of which fit our needs precisely. Following is a list of features in four categories, the first being the features we like as they are, in the DSP1124 and/or FBQ2496. Second are the essential features we would like, as well as several requested changes from the current BFD’s. Third are features/changes that we would like, but could live without if we just had too, although we believe they should have a minimal cost factor. Fourth are features available in other Behringer models or new features that we would like to be considered, but could be reserved for a second higher-end model if they will cause the unit to exceed our target price. We are not requesting a software program due to the free availability of the RoomEQ Wizard program. The target price we desire is $200-250 retail which will allow for a street price of approximately $150-200. It is imperative that we keep the cost to a minimum, as this is and always has been the driving force behind BFD sales in the home theater world. The majority of BFD 1124 owners were able to acquire there unit for $100-125.

Features on the DSP1124 and/or FBQ2496 we would like to keep:

~ Two independent channels.
~ A minimum of twelve parametric filters per channel.
~ Channel coupling and series looping.
~ Three-way IN/OUT bypass.
~ Input/output LED level indicators.
~ LED filter indicators for both channels.
~ Front panel display.
~ Retain normal required buttons and jog dial.
~ 24-bit/96 kHz A/D and D/A converter powered by a 32-bit DSP.
~ Internal switch-mode power supply (100 - 240 V~ / 50-60hz).
~ Low power consumption.
~ Adjustable input level (-10dBV / +4dBu) on rear.
~ Hard bypass relay.
~ Noise-free.
~ 107db dynamic range.
~ 0.007% THD.
~ High-quality components.
~ High-quality construction.
~ Balanced XLR inputs/outputs.
~ One year warranty.


Essential features and changes that we would like and should have a very minimal cost factor:

~ Soft power ON/OFF with selectable Auto-On detect via sub signal.
~ Eliminate turn-on thump and ground hum.
~ Double insulated chassis with a two prong plug or a ground lift switch if needed to eliminate hum.
~ Pure flat frequency response from 10hz to 400hz (FBQ2496 is -3db @ 20hz).
~ Filter adjustment capabilities from 10hz to 400hz.
~ Adjustable gain range from -24db to +16db for each filter.
~ Minimum of 4 to 6 memory presets.
~ Replace ¼ inch inputs/outputs with RCA inputs/outputs.
~ Simple shelf filter… (i.e. selectable linear boost between two selectable frequencies).
~ Selectable and/or variable 6db-48db/octave subsonic roll-off filter from 25hz to 10hz (10,13,16,19,22,25hz).
~ Time delay in msec.
~ Variable phase correction/adjustment from 0-180.
~ Front panel USB and/or RS-232 interface for MIDI port (place under small flip cover like on computers).
~ Dimmable front panel LED’s / lights with OFF option.
~ Soft blue and/or green LED’s on front panel vs. red.
~ Offer unit in black or silver… if not optional, offer only in black.
~ Revamp chassis for home theater consumer appearance vs. pro-audio style.
~ Allow mounting brackets to be optional (include unattached).
~ Enclose/fill gaps on sides if mounting brackets are removed.
~ Add rubber feet to allow placement on top of other equipment.
~ Remove graphic design from top of unit.

With the above features and changes this unit should sell like a hot potato at a steak house. We believe these are reasonable features for a street priced unit at $150-200.


Requested features/changes that won’t make or break the unit, but would be nice to have if minimal cost factor:

~ Anti-clipping mechanism with higher dynamic peak input before clipping.
~ Frequency readout in hertz instead of base + fine… (1hz increments w/ 0.1hz fine increments).
~ Bandwidth readout in octaves (1/3,1/6,1/24,1/1, etc.) or hertz (2hz,5hz,12hz,etc.) instead of 1/60, 10/60, 60/60, etc.
~ Front panel volume/gain to control output level to sub.
~ Linkwitz transform circuit.
~ Detachable power cord.


Next are the more elaborate features that you already have in some of your units, plus a few other added requested features, but we are uncertain as to the cost of these features and whether it would cause the new unit to exceed our target street price of $150-200. It may be that we could stand a street price of $250 (retail $299) with these extra features. We assume it would depend on your cost to integrate them into the new unit. Or if feasible, offer the above in one unit and add these features to another unit at a little higher cost.

Elaborate requested features with unknown cost factor for implementation (in order of relevance):

~ Individual crossover filters (Butterworth, Bessel, Linkwitz-Riley) per channel w/ selectable roll-off 6db-48db/octave.
~ Built-in RTA mic/line input with phantom power and GAIN control.
~ Built-in SPL meter with selectable dBA/dBC/OFF weighting.
~ Built-in test tones (sinewaves – individual 1hz increments and sweep from 5hz to 400hz).
~ Separate RCA mic monitoring and test tone output to allow for computer program monitoring.
~ Locate RTA mic/line inputs and RCA monitoring outputs on the front face plate under a small flip cover.
~ Video output for monitoring the display would be nice, but the cost factor may prohibit this.
~ Video display instead of LED’s… (dimmable and selectable OFF).
~ Small and simple 6 button wireless IR remote with discrete ON/OFF buttons and Preset 1,2,3,4 buttons.
~ Rear IR jack for remote control… to use with repeaters.
~ Add volume/gain control button to remote if feature is made available.
~ Add other control buttons to remote if cost feasible.

Consider them all sold!

We sincerely appreciate your genuine interest and consideration.

Sonnie Parker

[SimonO]

Couple of comments, I don't like the idea of a front flap for the USB port as it's just additional cost and will either break or not shut reliably and the black only option would be a big no no for me ...

[Sonnie Parker]

When I speak with them and go over the features, it will be my intentions to try to get them to recess the port and flush mount a small metal flip cover. I have a pretty nice one on one of my computers and it would be hard to break.

The fact that the unit is only offered in silver has been a thorn for the majority for many years. I've had more request for black. Hopefully, we can get it as an option, if not, more people want black than silver... or at least that's what I've been hearing for 5 years now.

It really makes no difference to me because I don't have room for it in my visible cabinet. Mine is hid. But I have to recommend what the majority are asking for. A host of folks with all black equipment have lived with silver for years... some refused to buy it because it was silver. It could ultimately come down to vice-versa, but let's be optimistic and I will certainly push for the option of both or maybe an interchangeable front cover.

[SimonO]

Originally Posted by Sonnie Parker

...more people want black than silver... or at least that's what I've been hearing for 5 years now...

That's fair enough, but I'm not sure if that's the case in the UK... I probably wouldn't bother upgrading if it was black only...

[ghislain]

Sonnie,

Same thing here (Belgium), the vast majority of audio/video kit being offered and sold is silver. Might be true for the whole european market as a matter a fact.
Looking at the internet shops, there's much more silver than black.
Personally, it do not consider this to be a dealbreaker though.

When do you think transmitting the gathered information to Behringer?

[chrisgeary]

why not do what harmony do with some of their remotes, and provide a simple plastic clip on/off fascia. all bases covered.

[Mr Cat]

Originally Posted by eviljohn2

I would be more interested in a dimmable display.

Mr Cat, no product of this type will work with high-level speaker connection I'm afraid. It would have to be enormous to cope with the power being supplied through it.

cheers for that - I wasn't sure how they really worked and I was only intrested...

so, what does the 2496 connect to..?
my understanding is that the BFD is for subs and the 2496 would connect to the amp..? *doh*

[bob1]

As long as it has soft power ON/OFF i will be happy ,i hate being caught out by the big thud.

[Sonnie Parker]

Final proposal sent to Behringer today:

http://bfdguide.ws/bse2496

Sounds great, keep us posted on the feedback. I'd buy one...