[Derek S-H]

Anyone else got one of these?

www.ramseymohsen.com - Ramsey Mohsen; web consultant, DJ, video blogger, lifecaster & internet addict. » Video Blog: “the ButtKicker install”

It's £400 here:

ButtKicker Wireless Kit :: Shaker Centre - Bass Shakers and Accessories for Flight Sim, Gaming, Pro Audio and Home Cinema

Or $300 here:

Amazon.com: ButtKicker BKA300 Wireless Home Theater Kit with ButtKicker Advance and Power Amplifier: Electronics

(or £185!)

Yes I know I'm stating the bleeding obvious here, but we are royally ripped off, aren't we?
Anyway, I would like to try one, but not at over £400. Anyone found one any cheaper?
Is it worth ordering from Amazon.com and paying extra import duties/VAT/anything else the government can think of to slap on and subsequently waste?

Thanks
Derek

[pingu666]

they weigh *alot*, I could never find a cheap way to ship to the uk from usa, even when they had deals on

[Suave]

Hi,

They are exceptional value if you can buy them in the USA & bring them back but very expensive here!

I was going to go for the larger Buttkicker Shakers but in the end went for the Buttkicker BKA-1000A amp (specially designed for shakers/transducers), the BK-Link Wireless Package & the BK-QCP Quick Connect Package.

I chose a different brand as the Buttkickers are more of a brute physical "Bass Shaker" than a true Tactile Transducer - I went for a pair of Rockford Fosgate I-Beam IB-200's (actually made by Sonic Immersion Technologies and an improved version of the SIT VT-300's). I have not hooked anything up yet due to work in progress but hopefully will be able to do so soon!

The Buttkickers are more affordable than most and have received excellent reviews and customer feedback so if you can pick them up in the US somehow you should be pleased. There are others which are better and more precise (do more than just shake) but they do cost more. This is the reason I went with the I-Beams as I wanted the infra-tactile experience as well just external shake. To me, they are really best suited to movies and depending on the material, can add a whole new dimension to movie watching!


Suave!

[m4rky_m4rk]

I think my Q10B is fantastic... I agree it does add a whole new dimension to movies and really draws one into the action. Scenes with powerful bass become much more realistic, conveying a hightened sense of threat and fright to the viewer.

Its almost like normally 5.1 is just 2D. After adding a sound tranducer then it becomes 3D.

You do need a good transducer and amp to power it though, and I also think the effect is more seemless when they are partnered with a powerful sub.

Done badly they are annoying. Done well then its .

I wish there was more practical experience and debate about the various types of transducers on this forum. It has felt a bit lonely on here at times as there are more naysayers, usually with no or limited experience of the current transducers, than there are pioneering fans

Amps to power them can be either the Behringer EP1500 or EP2500 or for a silent more expensive option without fans; the Parasound new classic Model 2250 is the one to use.

[Derek S-H]

Hi Suave

I looked up the I Beam review on Audioholics and it was very positive.
Can I just ask whether you imported your equipment in from the US? Did you have to pay any extra duties/taxes? And did you need to buy a voltage converter?
Let us know when it's all hooked up with pictures too?

I must admit to liking the wireless aspect of the ButtKicker, especially as I don't have my sofa up against the rear wall but in free space. I'm still not sure whether to pay more and buy from the UK, or import from Amazon.com and then get hit for extra costs? It may still work out cheaper anyway.

Derek

[namuk]

Wireless ButtKicker = Swimbo .

[Derek S-H]

Originally Posted by namuk

Wireless ButtKicker = Swimbo .

Derek

[namuk]

Originally Posted by Derek S-H

Derek

Swimbo = She Who Must Be Obeyed

[IronGiant]

What's the I for? immediately, instantaneously, or inevitably?

DAve

[Zorba_8]

Originally Posted by namuk

Wireless ButtKicker = Swimbo .

I'd go with "Inevitably" Dave

[namuk]

Originally Posted by IronGiant

What's the I for? immediately, instantaneously, or inevitably?

DAve

Originally Posted by Zorba_8

I'd go with "Inevitably" Dave

I was Defendantly thinking of something else when i typed that , talk about getting in your head

[Suave]

Originally Posted by Derek S-H

Hi Suave

I looked up the I Beam review on Audioholics and it was very positive.
Can I just ask whether you imported your equipment in from the US? Did you have to pay any extra duties/taxes? And did you need to buy a voltage converter?
Let us know when it's all hooked up with pictures too?

I must admit to liking the wireless aspect of the ButtKicker, especially as I don't have my sofa up against the rear wall but in free space. I'm still not sure whether to pay more and buy from the UK, or import from Amazon.com and then get hit for extra costs? It may still work out cheaper anyway.

Derek

Hi Derek,

I bought mine personally whilst in the US. Trouble with Amazon & most US sellers is that they will only sell if you have a US issued CC & ship to a US Address. The Buttkicker BKA-1000A Amp is dual voltage so no need for a transformer but pretty much any brutish amp that operates at 4 Ohms will do like some of the high powered PA ones.

If you are going to use on a large sofa, then get the Buttkicker LFE Kit as it is more powerful and even then you might be better off with an extra Buttkicker or two - normally use one per seat. I would rather import and even with all the charges & costs, it should work out way cheaper than the extortionate prices here - just be sure that all aspects work here - I know that some elements do not without alteration. Good luck & let us know how you get on!


Suave!

[m4rky_m4rk]

When considering amps do not forget about a seperate crossover for the transducer. Variable and built in the amp would be best but you could also use an in line crossover. The transducer can be better setup with adjustable crossover.

I have my sub xover in AV amp at 80 hz and the transducer amp at 40hz. The earthquake amp I am using allows me to boost or cut frequencies down at 20, 30,40hz if desired.

I found it useful to add some ms delay to the transducer signal to make the bass from sub and tranducer to arrive at precisly the same instant at the seating position. Its a minor improvement but detectable.

Sound from the sub takes time to travel from sub to seating position. Whereas the shaker will be instant. Depending on the sub to seat distance the sub bass can be 10's ms behind the transducer.

[Nimby]

I shall be holding international evening classes in the correct way to spell definitely.

Better still (and much cheaper) would be a browser spelling checker.

Firefox has a good one in UK English but with a rather limited vocabulary.

Whatever!

[m4rky_m4rk]

Originally Posted by Nimby

I shall be holding international evening classes in the correct way to spell definitely.

Better still (and much cheaper) would be a browser spelling checker.

Firefox has a good one in UK English but with a rather limited vocabulary.

Whatever!

Were, who, what... shocking

Wat about Google Chrome spel cheker?

[Nimby]

Words fail me.

[m4rky_m4rk]

I thought this might be useful to read... can't post the link because its to you know where..


Dan Hitchman wrote:

The Buttkicker amp that was powering 2 LFE "kickers" has finally given up the ghost and is out of warranty. As many Buttkicker fans should already know, this amp has its share of QC problems.

That said, what would you recommend as an alternative amp that has greater reliability, the necessary power to drive 2 LFE models, 2 and 4 ohm stability, and the necessary volume control?

Many amps don't seem to have necessary built in, adjustable crossover filters (high pass filtering, especially, so you don't get shaking during inappropriate moments) or full range volume knobs as Buttkicker's own amp includes.

What amps and ancillary equipment are you guys using to adjust and power your Buttkickers?

Thanks a bunch!

Desertdome wrote:

I have read that others have used a Behringer EP2500 amp for use with their Buttkickers.

[Derek S-H]

Originally Posted by Suave

Hi Derek,

I bought mine personally whilst in the US. Trouble with Amazon & most US sellers is that they will only sell if you have a US issued CC & ship to a US Address. The Buttkicker BKA-1000A Amp is dual voltage so no need for a transformer but pretty much any brutish amp that operates at 4 Ohms will do like some of the high powered PA ones.

If you are going to use on a large sofa, then get the Buttkicker LFE Kit as it is more powerful and even then you might be better off with an extra Buttkicker or two - normally use one per seat. I would rather import and even with all the charges & costs, it should work out way cheaper than the extortionate prices here - just be sure that all aspects work here - I know that some elements do not without alteration. Good luck & let us know how you get on!


Suave!

Hi Suave

Thanks for replying.
As I mentioned before, it's the wireless aspect that really appeals to me as I want to keep trailing wires along the floor to a minimum.
Also, having laminate flooring means that I can usually feel my sub (PV1) through the floor anyway!
My sofa is a wooden-framed sofa bed design (though it's locked into position as a sofa only, I never fold it out), so it is open at the back, sides and underneath. I feel that the wireless version should be suitable for my needs, especially as it comes all ready to go.
If I do take the plunge, then yes, I will write about it here. I hope you'll do the same too once you're all hooked up.

Thanks
Derek

[24 P]

I know you don't like wires, but wireless never works aswell as a wired device, IMO, and we are talking speakers here, not phones, remotes etc etc..

I would save some money and buy the normal wired crack cacklers, why spend more on wireless for?
If you have the $, I say go for it, if not, save the $ and hide the wires...

[Suave]

Originally Posted by 24 P

I know you don't like wires, but wireless never works aswell as a wired device, IMO, and we are talking speakers here, not phones, remotes etc etc..

I would save some money and buy the normal wired crack cacklers, why spend more on wireless for?
If you have the $, I say go for it, if not, save the $ and hide the wires...

Hi,

I have to say that is a very valid point and why I chose thw wired option. My I-Beams are extremely efficient in terms of transducers but even they require ideally an amp capable of generating between 150- 250 watts of power each and because the Buttkicker is more of a "Shaker" than a Transducer, it requires even more power as it generates a huge amount of shake effect. The Buttkicker Amp outputs 1000 watts of power and many use that amp for just one or two of the bigger units - that is an awful lot of power to be able to accurately transmit wirelessly imho!

Having said that, the BKA-Kit is a much smaller unit and therefore not as powerful or effective but many seem extremely happy with it for what it is - I think it will be perfectly OK for a one seat option but for a two or three seat sofa, then two should be the minimum.

If you have laminate flooring, you can buy matching skirting these days which has channels already cut on the inside for cabling to hide in so if you do go for the wired option, at least that will help greatly!


Suave!

[rmullins]

Hey all -

This is Randy from the Guitammer Co - makers of the ButtKicker line of products.

Derek S-H, We are looking into the issue you are having with the high price of the Wireless ButtKicker Kit - I'll post back when I find out more. I'm sorry you're having problems with that.

Also, reading through this thread I saw that there seems to be a lot of misconception about "tactile transducers" and especially the ButtKicker brand units.

First of all, the ButtKicker, I-Beam and even Bass-Shakers are all "transducers" AND "shakers" by definition. I-Beam and bass-shakers use voice-coil technology while the ButtKicker uses a magnetically-suspended piston.

The Guitammer Company founder / co-inventor, Ken McCaw says,
"ButtKickers are used by many hundreds of drummers, bass players, engineers, etc. to accurately monitor low frequency. For that reason, it was designed to be extremely accurate. In order to produce accurate low frequency, we went through all the obvious methods to reproduce tactile audio, including voice coil technology. We determined that using a floating piston method gave us very little inherent resonance peaks and allowed us to reproduce very accurate low-frequency, with extended low end... down to a true 5hz."

You can even look at the white paper provided by I-Beam to see this is true. We are fairly certain that the ButtKicker LFE is what they call the "Effects Device" in the chart at the bottom of page 2.
http://ibeambass.com/links-photos/I-BEAM-WP.pdf

For those who are unfamiliar, this chart measures the force of a device in a range of frequencies. You can see that the I-Beam really has very little force in the extreme low-frequencies and has an abrupt spike in power at 32Hz, then remains relatively strong up into the higher-low frequencies (..Sounds like a weather forecast..)

The ButtKicker LFE, however, shines in the lower frequencies. This chart doesn't show it, but it is just as powerful all the way down to 5Hz. If there were such a thing as an "infra-tactile experience", this would be it. Its force gently lowers as the frequency gets higher - a really good thing for movie-watching because most effects and moments you want to feel in movies happen 80Hz and below. Above that you start to feel people talking and ambient noises that can really ruin the experience. (As a side-note, our 2 Ohm transducers for musicians are stronger in the higher frequencies where it's needed).

As to the Wireless signal - our customers would have serious medical conditions if we were broadcasting 1000 Watts of power through the air. The wireless transmitters simply send the source signal from your receiver so that you can place the amplifier out of the way, back by your couch without having to run wires. Our new Kit uses wireless Bluetooth technology just like your cell phone. There is still a wire between the amp and the ButtKicker unit that carries the amplified signal.

The new Kit should be plenty for your couch. We've encountered some situations where that was not the case, but generally it's a personal preference, or the user has their LFE output set too low in their receiver.

ButtKicker transducers are extremely high-performance, and this new wireless Kit is no exception, even with an affordable price tag (at least in the States, at this point).

As always - if you ever have any questions about our products, give us a call or email us.

Randy Mullins
The Guitammer Company
randy.mullins@guitammer.com
614-898-9370

[m4rky_m4rk]

Hi Randy,

Welcolme to the forum ... nice to have to you pop over to this side of the pond

[Suave]

Originally Posted by rmullins

Hey all -

This is Randy from the Guitammer Co - makers of the ButtKicker line of products.

Derek S-H, We are looking into the issue you are having with the high price of the Wireless ButtKicker Kit - I'll post back when I find out more. I'm sorry you're having problems with that.

Also, reading through this thread I saw that there seems to be a lot of misconception about "tactile transducers" and especially the ButtKicker brand units.

First of all, the ButtKicker, I-Beam and even Bass-Shakers are all "transducers" AND "shakers" by definition. I-Beam and bass-shakers use voice-coil technology while the ButtKicker uses a magnetically-suspended piston.

The Guitammer Company founder / co-inventor, Ken McCaw says,
"ButtKickers are used by many hundreds of drummers, bass players, engineers, etc. to accurately monitor low frequency. For that reason, it was designed to be extremely accurate. In order to produce accurate low frequency, we went through all the obvious methods to reproduce tactile audio, including voice coil technology. We determined that using a floating piston method gave us very little inherent resonance peaks and allowed us to reproduce very accurate low-frequency, with extended low end... down to a true 5hz."

You can even look at the white paper provided by I-Beam to see this is true. We are fairly certain that the ButtKicker LFE is what they call the "Effects Device" in the chart at the bottom of page 2.
http://ibeambass.com/links-photos/I-BEAM-WP.pdf

For those who are unfamiliar, this chart measures the force of a device in a range of frequencies. You can see that the I-Beam really has very little force in the extreme low-frequencies and has an abrupt spike in power at 32Hz, then remains relatively strong up into the higher-low frequencies (..Sounds like a weather forecast..)

The ButtKicker LFE, however, shines in the lower frequencies. This chart doesn't show it, but it is just as powerful all the way down to 5Hz. If there were such a thing as an "infra-tactile experience", this would be it. Its force gently lowers as the frequency gets higher - a really good thing for movie-watching because most effects and moments you want to feel in movies happen 80Hz and below. Above that you start to feel people talking and ambient noises that can really ruin the experience. (As a side-note, our 2 Ohm transducers for musicians are stronger in the higher frequencies where it's needed).

As to the Wireless signal - our customers would have serious medical conditions if we were broadcasting 1000 Watts of power through the air. The wireless transmitters simply send the source signal from your receiver so that you can place the amplifier out of the way, back by your couch without having to run wires. Our new Kit uses wireless Bluetooth technology just like your cell phone. There is still a wire between the amp and the ButtKicker unit that carries the amplified signal.

The new Kit should be plenty for your couch. We've encountered some situations where that was not the case, but generally it's a personal preference, or the user has their LFE output set too low in their receiver.

ButtKicker transducers are extremely high-performance, and this new wireless Kit is no exception, even with an affordable price tag (at least in the States, at this point).

As always - if you ever have any questions about our products, give us a call or email us.

Randy Mullins
The Guitammer Company
randy.mullins@guitammer.com
614-898-9370

Hi Randy!

Fantastic to have you join the forums - deeply thankful for all your input & sincerely hope that you will be a regular poster here - there is so little information about this topic here in Europe & having an expert like you contribute is very welcome indeed as it helps us avoid misconceptions due to lack of credible sources to turn to!

Unfortunately, the market here is very limited due to lack of sources & options so I hope your input helps us get more interest and a greater source of affordable products.

I am just beginning to learn about tactile transducers and via other forums was led to believe that there was a massive difference between purely Physical Bass Shakers & true Tactile Transducers - I was led to believe that the Buttkicker was just a massive physical augmentation to the bass - very powerful but not very subtle or accurate. As you can appreciate, trying to get accurate info & user opinions on this side of the pond is very limited and not easy for us to do so!

How do the Buttkicker LFE compare to the I-Beam's? I have read a number of reviews & user opinions which have rated the I-Beams amongst the very best tactile transducer's out there as they are supposed to be very fast, accurate and do not lose out on the very subtle & intricate details? To be honest, I was afraid the Buttkicker LFE's would be just massive slam & no finesse or detail and really only suited to heavy action type movies? How does the LFE Shaker compare to the I-Beam's? I have only the benefit of one user experience who described them as both "completely different"?!!!

I know some folks over in the US have combined using both the LFE Shakers and I-Beam's as they felt this gave a better overall balance due to what they felt was missing when using each on their own - what are your thoughts?
I currently have two I-Beams, a Buttkicker BKA-1000A Amp, The Buttkicker Wireless Kit & the Buttkicker Quick-Select Package. Would I benefit from adding a Buttkicker LFE Shaker or two to the pair of I-Beam Shakers? I know the BKA-1000A has plenty of power and allows up to 4 units to be connected to it. Is this a good idea or will this just confuse matters further incase the LFE Shaker(s) & I-Beam's do not mix or match very well?

My I-Beams are the Rockford Fosgate version IB-200's which Sonic Immersion Technologies have confirmed are a updated & more powerful version of their original I-Beam VT-300's. The specs are:

Impedance: 4-Ohms
Power Handling: 100 Watts RMS / 250 Watts Max
Minimum Amp: 100 Watts RMS @ 4-Ohms
Optimum Amp: 150-250 Watts RMS @ 4-Ohms
Speaker Connector: Compression terminals (accomodates up to 12 AWG)
SPL - (1w/1m) Force Per Watt: 2.5 Lbs./Watt (11.1 Newtons/Watt)
Mounting Depth H 2.00" x W 4.25" x D 6.875" / 5.08cm x 10.79cm x 17.46cm
Weight: 2.5 Lbs /1.13Kg


Many thanks for any help & a warm welcome again - hope you are to stay!

Suave!

[pingu666]

there is another problem, theres no buttkicker gamers in stock, in the uk i think, maybe even american availability is poor, and i dont want to fork out £lol just to vibrate my chair with a LFE kit..

when can we get our hands on the promised buttkicker gamer 2 ?

[rmullins]

Hey, thanks for all the warm welcomes!

I'm about to take off here for the weekend, but I just wanted to say thanks!

Probably mon. I'll get back on and address the questions.

Derek S-H - I did look into the price issue and it's mostly because of the shipping fees/duties/VAT involved with the import. Also the Kit's normal retail price in the U.S. is $400 so your price isn't quite as outrageous compared to that.

Also, I may have heard that the price of the Wireless ButtKicker kit will be lowered in the UK starting mon. the 7th.... shhhh....

Thanks again for the warm welcome... you're all a lot nicer on this side of the pond than they tell me. -JK-


Randy Mullins
The Guitammer Co
randy.mullins@guitammer.com

[Derek S-H]

I am SO glad I started this Thread now!
Thanks very much for your warm and informative reply Randy and, indeed, welcome to what is probably the UK's most popular AV site!

As others have so eloquently mentioned, there's a huge information shortfall about your company's products, usage and efficiency in this country, and it is to our benefit that you seem happy to answer any queries via this site.

I know that we can contact you directly via your own site, but a user-generated content site like this reaches a far wider audience and is far more time efficient regarding online searches for specific information.

Hopefully, you will continue to keep us informed of any progress regarding affordable purchases here in the UK, and I only mean affordable in the sense that there is not a huge price discrepancy between the two territories, and more people might be prepared to take a punt on what is relatively unknown technology here.

There is patently a market for it here too, in my opinion, so I hope you may consider creating more of a UK presence, or even offering an AV Forums Members' discount?

Oh, and a link towards that hinted UK price drop would be much appreciated!

Best Wishes
Derek

[thakursachin]

Originally Posted by rmullins

Hey, thanks for all the warm welcomes!

I'm about to take off here for the weekend, but I just wanted to say thanks!

Probably mon. I'll get back on and address the questions.

Derek S-H - I did look into the price issue and it's mostly because of the shipping fees/duties/VAT involved with the import. Also the Kit's normal retail price in the U.S. is $400 so your price isn't quite as outrageous compared to that.

Also, I may have heard that the price of the Wireless ButtKicker kit will be lowered in the UK starting mon. the 7th.... shhhh....

Thanks again for the warm welcome... you're all a lot nicer on this side of the pond than they tell me. -JK-


Randy Mullins
The Guitammer Co
randy.mullins@guitammer.com

Buttkicker LFE kit in UK costs £599, which is almost thrice the cost in the US: ButtKicker LFE Kit :: Shaker Centre - Bass Shakers and Accessories for Flight Sim, Gaming, Pro Audio and Home Cinema

I've got a buttkicker, & it's absolutely brilliant. But it's very expensive compared to the US, and is not as widely available.

[Derek S-H]

Randy, where are you?
There's a couple of queries that need resolving!
Derek

[jameslunn]

It's the 8th... has the price come down? I want one... any one got any links to buy!

Am I being impatient?

J