Sonos or Squeezebox?

[Empgamer]

Had a read of a similar thread about this a few pages back but I couldn't quite sort out what I wanted from it so thought I'd post this. Please bear with me as this will be my first lurch into digital music (apart from Ipod etc which I'm familiar with) and I only came across this type of kit when scouring threads looking for Ipod earphone options! Any way, I listen to less music than i ever used to mainly because I find going from room to room with CDs and firing up different players too much hassle. So, I figure one of these options may assist. At the moment I have:

Home PC with XP (Media Centre)
iTunes/Media Player/Quick Time etc etc installed
Wireless network/router all set up
Home Cinema system (bit dated now, Sony DAV S500)
Couple of rubbish mini hi-fi systems which are going to a skip!

What I need is something that will allow playing of music in numerous rooms (cost is not SO much of an issue but I don't want to burn money for the hell of it) and, apart from the Home Cinema, have no legacy systems, amps or speakers to connect it/them to. One way or another I'll need the lot. I use (or will be using) an Ipod Nano so would rather whatever I have to be able to work with iTunes (if that's an issue).

I'd rather NOT have to have the PC whirring away all day so a NAS (Buffalo) seems the way to go and I know the Sonos can link to those.

So far the Sonos seems the best bet for a number of reasons (which may be ill conceived):

1 Good quality
2 I like the controller set-up
3 100 Zone Players have built in amps for speakers
4 80 can connect (I hope) to the Home Cinema
5 Can use a NAS

Squeezebox I'm not sure of. Some thoughts though:

7 Might be cheaper per unit but amps/speaker set ups needed per room
8 Not sure if they can access/use a NAS
9 Not sure their controllers will make accessing music so easy
10 Not really quite sure of what else I will need and whether the costs will actually rise above what a Sonos set-up would be if I'm not careful

So, that's my thoughts so far. Any help/comments much appreciated, especially regarding things I have not thought of or other options. I'd have to add that bundles of technical acronyms will be totally lost on me I'm afraid

I'll save the 'what's the best way to upload my CD collection' (file format, indexing and burn rates etc) for another thread once I've placed an order!!!

Just as a total aside, is there a way to re-configure the forum view so that in 'Linear' mode the first post you see is the first in the thread and not the last? I've looked all over in settings and profiles but can't find anything. Seems odd having to start at the last page and click back through to the first reading from the bottom up?

[lazymatt]

Likely that the Sonos will be good for you, as having the amps built in will be very helpful, and all you'll have to do is buy speakers. Think of the Sonos amps as being about as good as a decent mini system. They have surprisingly good stereo separation and imaging (although I reckon they could use a little more power - but I'm used to 120W of Roksan amplification!!!).

The SB3 can run with a NAS as well, but you will need one that runs Slimserver software. The Qnap NAS drives can come with Slimserver pre-installed. The TS109 is the new base model, and is very good, and pretty much dead silent.

I reckon if you factor in the cost of amps, the costs are about the same, so I'd not worry too much about that. Although this obviously depends on how much you'd spend on amplification.

As for everyday use, I reckon the remote gives the Sonos the edge, although if you're into doing a little work, you can get something like a PDA to work as a remote for the SB3.

[kevshed]

Gonna throw in a curveball..

I have 3 of the Roku devices - love 'em.

I have a Thecus NAS box, which has an embedded iTunes server - and the ROKUs can all access/stream music from it directly no problems at all. No PC needed....

I've had them a while, and when i got them they were better than the sqeezebox.... may not necessarily be the case now, but worth a look.

www.rokulabs.com

[Artie Fufkin]

Originally Posted by Empgamer

Just as a total aside, is there a way to re-configure the forum view so that in 'Linear' mode the first post you see is the first in the thread and not the last? I've looked all over in settings and profiles but can't find anything. Seems odd having to start at the last page and click back through to the first reading from the bottom up?

Click "my settings" at the top of the page
then "edit options"
scroll down to "thread display options"

[scooby_doo]

Originally Posted by Empgamer

So far the Sonos seems the best bet for a number of reasons (which may be ill conceived):

1 Good quality
2 I like the controller set-up
3 100 Zone Players have built in amps for speakers
4 80 can connect (I hope) to the Home Cinema
5 Can use a NAS

Squeezebox I'm not sure of. Some thoughts though:

7 Might be cheaper per unit but amps/speaker set ups needed per room
8 Not sure if they can access/use a NAS
9 Not sure their controllers will make accessing music so easy
10 Not really quite sure of what else I will need and whether the costs will actually rise above what a Sonos set-up would be if I'm not careful

I went through a similar process and settled on the following:

Squeezebox SB3: see here

AudioEngine A5's: see here. Many people also rate the Aego M's: see here

QNAP TS-109/TS-109Pro: see here. I started on a TS-101 and have just upgraded to the TS-109Pro.

QNAP have just released a new dual drive NAS, the TS-209Pro: see here

I can't recommend my setup highly enough!

Re your points above:

2. I do agree the controller is great. However, what is great about the squeezebox is you can see the display from across the room; you don’t have to keep picking up the remote to see what’s playing. If you fancy a similar remote for the squeezebox you can use a PDA or mobile phone to control it.

7. The audioengine's/aego's are fantastic for the money.

8. It can. You do need one that can run Slimserver tho. Several can, but in my opinion the QNAPs are perfect. They sleep when you're not playing music and wake up when you fire up the squeezebox. Near silent (the TS-101/TS-109 series are fanless), low power and can be expanded with USB/eSATA drives if needed.

I'm not sure if it's changed but when I looked into the Sonos setup the first controller had to be hard-wired to the NAS/pc, all others can then be wireless. This wasn't convenient for me.

Hope this helps

[Autopilot]

The price is a bit steep on the offcial Logitech forums @£220. You should not be paying more than £180 tops these days, have a search around.

BTW, Don't Logitech have an amazing ability to make everything look drab and uninspiring on their website! Go to www.slimdevices.com instead.

[scooby_doo]

Originally Posted by Autopilot

The price is a bit steep on the offcial Logitech forums @£220. You should not be paying more than £180 tops these days, have a search around.

BTW, Don't Logitech have an amazing ability to make everything look drab and uninspiring on their website! Go to www.slimdevices.com instead.

I wasn't suggesting the OP, or anyone else for that matter, buys from the links I gave. It was simply to read more about the products. There are not many website "shops" that give anything more than a cursory summary of the product. They assume you've already read up about them

EDIT: If you really want to read up about the squeezebox then their forums are a great resource: click here

[Empgamer]

Thanks for replies so far. Really useful. Think I'll take a little time to think this through rather than rush into it. That SB3 set up sounds good Scooby and I'll look into that. Are you UK based? Just wondering where you got your gear from if so?

I'd also consider the Audioengine A5 speakers for approx £200 (from what I can see so far) linked to a Sonos Z80 at £249, making a complete room package £449 instead of the 'amp included' Z100 at £349 and Sonos speakers at £129, making £471 per room - unless for the sake of £30 the latter combo gives a better sound/perfromance. On that note, I'd also welcome any suggestions re Sonos accessories such as speakers and the NAS. Buying the package (e.g. speakers and NAS) in one hit from somwhere like Simply Sonos, who clearly specialise in the kit and know what they are talking about with the 'min 'n' match' (and their prices seem reasonable too), is certainly an attractive proposition, particularly as I don't know enough about the various specs to start choosing different!

Only slight concern I have with the SB3 is setting up and ease of use. The Sonos gear seems to be more 'plug and play' so to speak and I wonder if the SB3 set up will be as easy (thinking of my wife and 16 year old daughter who will likely stick with CDs if turning the 'digital rig' on and getting it to work is more hassle than they think it's worth). Totally naive with all of these products here you understand

One other factor that I'm considering is music libraries. From the frantic reading I'm doing at moment, with particularly helpful threads from Lazymatt, Autopilot and others, it SEEMS that it is better to rip CDs to a FLAC format with something like EAC for good qulaity music at home. I think though that this is not a format that Ipods will play and as such am I likely to need two libraries effectively? I presume therefore I'd need to have different players installed pointing them to different locations on the PC hard drive or NAS so that when I connect the Ipod it doesn't load (or attempt to load if it can't) FLAC tracks and also so that the Sonos/SB3 doesn't start playing lower quality MP3 etc around the house (if that is there is THAT much difference). Obviously being able to use iTunes for the lot is very appealing and whatever I use, one of the players/libraries needs to be Ipod compatible. Not sure if I'm making too much of an issue about this or whether using a NAS will simplify the problems more or indeed whether there is in fact an easy solution? I'll search around but in the meantime I'd appreciate any pointers to threads/sites that may provide an idiots guide

I'll look at posting this slightly different query in a separate thread too as it may not get picked up otherwise. I'll do some more searching first though.

[scooby_doo]

Yup, I'm UK based. You can buy the SB3/AudioEngines from Amazon/Dabs/Ecodigital plus plenty of other places.

The QNAP TS-109/Pro has only just been released so it's not yet available everywhere. qnap.co.uk & ripcaster do it.

Since I don't own a Sonos system any views I give will be biased so I'll not even go there

When you're pricing up the Sonos options, don't forget the price of the controller/charging cradle.

[Empgamer]

That's great - thanks. About £200 seems going rate for AE5 and about £180 for SB3. I suspect the T109 Pro will suit me fine but having no idea how much space a FLAC CD would take I'm not sure what size to go for.

On reflection now I'm quite keen on the SB3 set up mailnly because (using different numbers to those above in OP):

1a) SB3 units seem to be quite discreet size wise
2a) Display and controller for each room (not sure how easy they are to sync if you want same music blasting out all over the house though)
3a) Seem quite customisable with different formats etc supported
4a) Not so costly an option (albeit that is not a major issue at moment)

Still have few concerns/niggles that I want to come to terms with

5a) Not sure if wife/daughter will find them as easy to use as Sonos, I suspect it's not too hard?
6a) Wonder if the Sonos, with its own wireless network, provide better coverage?
7a) Still part of me that DOES like the Sonos controller. Note that Nokia 770 etc is an option (which could always be used as a lounge based net browser as well but it's more cost).
8a) With probably no just cause, there is a part of me that wonders whether the more expensive Sonos option translates into better quality/functionality that I have missed somewhere????

[lazymatt]

Originally Posted by Empgamer

Thanks for replies so far. Really useful. Think I'll take a little time to think this through rather than rush into it. That SB3 set up sounds good Scooby and I'll look into that. Are you UK based? Just wondering where you got your gear from if so?

I'd also consider the Audioengine A5 speakers for approx £200 (from what I can see so far) linked to a Sonos Z80 at £249, making a complete room package £449 instead of the 'amp included' Z100 at £349 and Sonos speakers at £129, making £471 per room - unless for the sake of £30 the latter combo gives a better sound/perfromance. On that note, I'd also welcome any suggestions re Sonos accessories such as speakers and the NAS. Buying the package (e.g. speakers and NAS) in one hit from somwhere like Simply Sonos, who clearly specialise in the kit and know what they are talking about with the 'min 'n' match' (and their prices seem reasonable too), is certainly an attractive proposition, particularly as I don't know enough about the various specs to start choosing different!

Only slight concern I have with the SB3 is setting up and ease of use. The Sonos gear seems to be more 'plug and play' so to speak and I wonder if the SB3 set up will be as easy (thinking of my wife and 16 year old daughter who will likely stick with CDs if turning the 'digital rig' on and getting it to work is more hassle than they think it's worth). Totally naive with all of these products here you understand

One other factor that I'm considering is music libraries. From the frantic reading I'm doing at moment, with particularly helpful threads from Lazymatt, Autopilot and others, it SEEMS that it is better to rip CDs to a FLAC format with something like EAC for good qulaity music at home. I think though that this is not a format that Ipods will play and as such am I likely to need two libraries effectively? I presume therefore I'd need to have different players installed pointing them to different locations on the PC hard drive or NAS so that when I connect the Ipod it doesn't load (or attempt to load if it can't) FLAC tracks and also so that the Sonos/SB3 doesn't start playing lower quality MP3 etc around the house (if that is there is THAT much difference). Obviously being able to use iTunes for the lot is very appealing and whatever I use, one of the players/libraries needs to be Ipod compatible. Not sure if I'm making too much of an issue about this or whether using a NAS will simplify the problems more or indeed whether there is in fact an easy solution? I'll search around but in the meantime I'd appreciate any pointers to threads/sites that may provide an idiots guide

I'll look at posting this slightly different query in a separate thread too as it may not get picked up otherwise. I'll do some more searching first though.

The Audio Engines are actually very nice. It is worth while holding out though. There's some others out there that you may be interested in coming shortly.

Don't get the Sonos speakers; they're o.k, but for the money you can get much better. Tannoys F1 Customs at £109 or Mordaunt Shorts 902i's at £150 are much better propositions. The MS's in particular seems to work very well. If you can stretch MA BR2's (£200) are brilliant with the Sonos.

An iPod will not recognise FLAC (unless you install TP firmware). You can rip into ALAC if you prefer if all your tunes are going to be used on the Sonos (which plays ALAC or FLAC natively) or an iPod. Otherwise, yes you pretty much need two libraries. I wouldn't worry about it too much though. Most of us here have at least two libraries.

I actually find it much easier to keep them separate and use iTunes for the iPod only (it is a God-awful piece of software), and Sonos Desktop Controller for the Sonos.

Remember with Sonos you don't actually need server software to run it as such. You can pretty much set it up with-out a PC if you want to (although it's not recommended). But you can do it all though the controller.

The SB3, once up and running is very user friendly and simple to operate, although I've never done a blind test as such. I do know that with Sonos pretty much anyone can use it within about a minute, and I think the SB3 wouldn't take much more explanation to the uninitiated (once set up).

Agree with Scooby that the Qnap 109 is brilliant. I got my hands on one last week. The 101 was good, but I always felt it was a little unpolished, the 109 is a great bit of kit (silent too).

I always recommend Buffalo NAS for Sonos, but most true NAS drives will work. Check the Sonos forums; there's a thread over there about what NAS people use, and you'll probably see most are Buffalo.

[lazymatt]

Originally Posted by Empgamer

T I suspect the T109 Pro will suit me fine but having no idea how much space a FLAC CD would take I'm not sure what size to go for.

How many CD's do you have? 100 CD's ripped to FLAC will take around 45 Gb of space.

[scooby_doo]

Just one word about NAS drives for a minute. I also use mine for video streaming, BitTorrents, print server, FTP server, central backup and central fileserver so, although it's rather pricey just to serve a squeezebox, it's a lot more than a squeezebox server!

For info, you're looking at roughly 500MB for an album ripped in flac.

EDIT: oops browser lag lazymatt. Fortunatelty we came up with roughly the same number

If you do go for the QNAP you might find it cheaper buying the harddrive from a different supplier to the QNAP itself. It's a doddle to install the drive and load slimserver on it (if you go the squeezebox route) so don't be put off.

[Empgamer]

Thanks Matt. Nowhere near that many!!!! I suspect a 250 or 320 will suit me fine. I do listen to audio books on the Ipoda lot but will leave those in the native iTunes (can't remember what I set it to for book import but it was as per AlderBlog advice).

I wish I could make my bloomin' mind up about this. It's almost as if part of me WANTS to buy the Sonos rig yet part of me thinks I SHOULD get the SB3. Perhaps I need both

What were the speakers you were reffering to that were coming? I'd rather not waste money for the hell of it but equally I'd like to get the speakers soon whichever system I go for.

Do you use the T109 with the Sonos or have you a Buffalo Link for that?

That Sonos controller really is an attractive prospect but I figure that for the rig I'll need for the house the SB3 route would come out around £600 cheaper (thats based on using AE5s with SB3 and Sonos speakers with the Sonos). With those savings I could get a Nokia 770 which will also have other uses. I'm sure I read somewhere that once such a device is configured it has even more functionality than the Sonos' but I'm not sure??? One thing that does appeal is the ability to flick up and down through menus etc and (I hope) create playlists etc. Not sure how easy that will be with the SB3 style of display and nothing else

Sonos is appealing with its controller, ease of set-up/use and own wireless; SB3 appeals on basis of price, individually controlled units, format flexibility (but there is always a danger of listing a reason when in all likelihood it will never get used) and 'on unit' displays.

Sorry about all the questions. My finger is itching to hit 'buy'!!!

[lazymatt]

Originally Posted by scooby_doo

Just one word about NAS drives for a minute. I also use mine for video streaming, BitTorrents, print server, FTP server, central backup and central fileserver so, although it's rather pricey just to serve a squeezebox, it's a lot more than a squeezebox server!

Yep, totally agree, it is probably the most flexible NAS out there. The 209 Pro is looking pretty good too.