[elrao]

Hi, hopefully this is in the best forum to get some advice on how to set up my iTunes.

My wife and I have separate user accounts on the PC, we both have iPhones with our own iTunes accounts. This works for us to keep our phones synced with our own data in Outlook (contacts, diaries etc.).

I also have a Sonos system in the house.

I want to set up our iTunes in such a way that all our music is stored on a shared folder on my Synology NAS (has an iTunes server function) and have it available to both of us in iTunes and also available to the Sonos system.

I want to be able to add music directly to the NAS folder and have it synced into both our libraries when we open our iTunes. (Have seen some third party software that does this with the aid of a little scripting). It should automatically appaer in Sonos.

I want any music one of us rips from CD into iTunes to be available to the other person's iTunes and on the Sonos, can I set up iTunes to rip to my folder on my NAS?

Any thoughts on how best to set this up?

[SillySausage]

This question has been asked many many times but I can't seem to find an answer that offers a solution

I'll be getting a NAS for use as a multi room server of music and video.

Video can be looked at later as I know there are ways and means for what I want to do, however music is still a minefield.

At the moment we have 2 seperate iTunes libraries on a PC and Mac. Both have individual playlists, songs and iPhones synched to them.

Neither phone will be synched with anything but its own associated computer.

The question is, can I put the libraries as one big joint one on a server but keep the two seperate accounts as is on the laptops, and could they both be accessed at the same time if needed?

Also we want to stream music to rooms, either with Sonus or Squeezebox.

Both have iphone apps for control, but do the laptops have to be on to access the library or can the iphone or server run some someware as a front end to access the music?

Am I right in thinking that the Squeezebox server can run on the NAS and use the itunes library, thus negating the need for a laptop to be on?

Would Sonus do this as well, and what would I need to buy to do it - Am hoping it is just a ZP90 to talk to the server but not sure.

A few questions there but hopefully I can get some answers instead of going round in circles.

[amcluesent]

I guess the answer is tricky as Apple is now wanting to draw people into it's own AirPlay proprietary ecosystem, based on having iTunes running 24/7 on the network (then in the cloud?) and licensing Airplay to AV Receiver, dock, etc. manufacturers. This is why I can't see any mileage in NAS which offer an 'iTunes Server'.

So an Apple+other system will never be as slick as from a single company.

That said, I have something like you want with a huge music library for my Squeezebox, but run iTunes on a Revo nettop just to let me maintain an iPhone/iPad.

One approach could be like this -

• Set-up the NAS so it provides a shared volume
• Mount that volume on both your PC and Mac
• Copy over all your music to the NAS from PC and Mac, best to create a logical directory structure, i.e. genre/artist/album
• You'll probably have to spend time with tag editor like mp3tag as AFAIK iTunes sometimes keeps info in it's database, not the files themselves. Not having proper tags will make using Sonos/Squeezebox horrid.
• Sort out album art, having one file folder.jpg per album works best
• Backup NAS to a USB disk etc!
• Start iTunes on PC and Mac and disable both Keep iTunes Media folder organized and Copy files to iTunes Media
• Delete content of iTunes libraries
• Select Add to Library, and select the top music directory from the shared drive and let iTunes rebuild its index of files on the NAS
• Redo any smart playlists, deselect unwanted songs etc. as needed and resync your phones

Now you have all your music on the NAS, you have the option of installing Squeezebox Server on the NAS and having it index the local music library (iTunes integration NOT needed). If you go with Sonos, set-up to use the same network share as the PC/Mac access.

Install controller app on iPhones to taste, the free Sonos one or the £5 choices for Squeezebox and you'll be away.

You won't need the PC/Mac switched on to use the controller apps or stream music off the NAS

The only tricky thing is how to automate addition of new music to the library, depending on how you rip CDs or d/l music from interwebs. Squeezebox will re-index on demand or periodically, don't know about Sonos. I see there's a few 3rd party apps for iTunes which will take a 'watch' folder (your network share) and sweep this for new music and update the iTunes index as needed, but I've not tried these. I just remember what I've added, and manually import the folder(s) to iTunes.

All in all, bit of a faff, but you're kind of reversing out of a bit of a muddle with two iTunes libraries.

[SillySausage]

Many thanks for the detailed and lengthy reply, it is very much appreciated.

When reading up and learning such things as home piping for music and video, it isn't hard to realize why installers can demand a premium for making things 'Just work' from anywhere in the house at any time with the minimal amount of fuss.

I suppose home networking is its own worst enemy, as being connected to the internet with masses of copyrighted material available from just an ip address isn't the best thing for software developers to work with

I'll have a look into what this new Airplay thing is about as I haven't heard of it till now, but in the long run I will probably give what you suggested a try for sure.

Cheers once again.

[amcluesent]

>it is very much appreciated.<

No worries. I'd really like someone to do this and report back from the bleeding edge as more and more peeps want such an arrangement if they are reluctant to jump 100% into the Apple camp.

[SillySausage]

I thought the Apple Airplay thing might be something new, but having read some more it is just the ability to stream to associated equipment and airport express things.

We've been using this for ages in the kitchen, so I guess it is nothing new

I can't help thinking Apple have missed a trick in assuming nobody else wants to do as we do, as there are so many questions asking the same thing.

Will keep looking.

[Andrew Mogford]

OK

Just need some general advice about ripping my CDs and how to go about it.

My setup is currently as follows......

I have a squeezebox attached to my amp in the living room, and a squeezebox radio in the bedroom. My CDs are ripped within iTunes (and organised within that program).

The reason I use iTunes is because I have an ipod in the car, an iPhone 4 for everyday use, and an iPad as well.

The squeezeboxes are controlled with iPeng for iPad and iPhone.

The limitations with iTunes are obvious, and also it becomes annoying everytime I get a new PC or format hard drives, that I lose all my playlist info and ratings info and have to redo them. I also can't easily move my music around from disc to disc. When testing media streamers for AVForums as I am doing more and more regularly, I need a decent way of organising my audio so that media streamers can access it as well as my squeezebox.

BUT (and here is the kicker). I really don't want to lose my playlist options - and in particular my dynamic playlists. If at all possible.

So - is there any alternative way of ripping and storing my CDs in a way where I can also make playlists that the squeezebox will recognise? But also make it readable in iTunes for transfer to my iDevices? (if the playlist info is stored elsewhere then I have no need to store that info within iTunes).

I don't think I am explaining this too well - but I hope it makes some sense.

Oh and I also want album art!

Thanks in advance for your help!

(don't want much do I?) :biggrin:

[GilesGuthrie]

I'm doing some of what you're after. I use iTunes to rip music, then I sync it for streaming to a Synology NAS. I use a simple, cheap ($30-ish) synchronisation product (SmartSync - it's at SmartSync.com) to copy music from the iTunes folder to the NAS. It also manages my other data sync requirements.

That's the easy bit!

The hard bit is to sync yours and your wife's iTunes libraries. To my knowledge, iTunes will not auto-import music. You have to drag & drop it to the library, triggering iTunes to do the import.

So SmartSync will manage your library:Synology synchronisation. Someone else may know something about iTunes I don't. I manage it by manually copying the music my wife wants on her phone to her iTunes library.

[socistep]

Originally Posted by Andrew Mogford

OK

Just need some general advice about ripping my CDs and how to go about it.

My setup is currently as follows......

I have a squeezebox attached to my amp in the living room, and a squeezebox radio in the bedroom. My CDs are ripped within iTunes (and organised within that program).

The reason I use iTunes is because I have an ipod in the car, an iPhone 4 for everyday use, and an iPad as well.

The squeezeboxes are controlled with iPeng for iPad and iPhone.

The limitations with iTunes are obvious, and also it becomes annoying everytime I get a new PC or format hard drives, that I lose all my playlist info and ratings info and have to redo them. I also can't easily move my music around from disc to disc. When testing media streamers for AVForums as I am doing more and more regularly, I need a decent way of organising my audio so that media streamers can access it as well as my squeezebox.

BUT (and here is the kicker). I really don't want to lose my playlist options - and in particular my dynamic playlists. If at all possible.

So - is there any alternative way of ripping and storing my CDs in a way where I can also make playlists that the squeezebox will recognise? But also make it readable in iTunes for transfer to my iDevices? (if the playlist info is stored elsewhere then I have no need to store that info within iTunes).

I don't think I am explaining this too well - but I hope it makes some sense.

Oh and I also want album art!

Thanks in advance for your help!

(don't want much do I?) :biggrin:

Hi Andrew

Unfortunately iTunes/apple don't want to play very nicely with other application and playlists is another limitation.

I understand what you are saying re: the usage of iTunes, I found it good for static and dynamic playlists creation - one of the limitations of SB for me is that its not easy to create and maintain playlists via the web interface - Erlands plugins make a massive difference (have you tried these?) but its still not as user friendly as something like itunes.

I haven't got a solution to your problem as I haven't got a copy of itunes so not able to check how flexible the import/export playlist functions actually are.

However to illustrate what I do, I run Ubuntu and use a programme called Banshee to manage my music collection and also my ipod, from Squeezebox I use Erlands plugins to rate songs and then from that generate a 'Top Rated Tracks' playlist, I import this into Banshee and then that gets synced to ipod, this is heavily used! There is a step before the import where I need to update the .m3u playlist and replace 'flac' with 'mp3' (I have a mirror mp3 collection) - I've automated this via a small script so its seamless. I've just tried the reverse now and exported a smart playlist from Banshee to my SB 'Playlists' folder, this time replacing mp3 with flac (Banshee lists my mp3 collection) and then did a quick rescan and it played in SB, again this could be automated - The import and export isn't seamless however there is not a lot of manual effort and i'm pleased that I can transfer playlists from SB to Banshee and vice versa, Banshee is a lot like itunes for smart playlists

I still use my girlfriends copy of itunes to update my iphone but have work to do to make this a bit more easier - what kind of playlists do you have in itunes that you want to get into SB?

I think you would need to look at managing your music from different programs, so you had one location with all your flac/mp3's in with the following programs accessing it for music

1) Squeezebox
2) iTunes
3) Another music collection programme - so similar to how I use banshee you could try using something like media monkey to create playlists that could be shared with Squeezebox and create dynamic playlists from that - can also be used for cover art etc.

You could operate 2 music collection management to give you flexibility or you could trial importing playlists from media monkey etc. - again not sure how easy this is

Or as a final point, I know Squeezebox can use your itunes library but not sure whether it pulls through dynamic playlists?

[elrao]

Thanks for the reply, will check it out.

For auto-importing music, I have seen this iTunes Library Updater at Everything iTunes [Windows Version] mentioned a few places, but don't have any experience of it myself.

So, if I used smartsync, set up on both our windows accounts, to sync any music from out 'iTunes/Music' folders to the //NAS/Music folder, then that would centralise all the music for us (would then have to delete the copies in the iTunes folders), then run the library updater on both our windows accounts, to update our libraries separately.
Would just not have any playlists snyced, but can live without that.

The SONOS just picks up everything in the NAS directory, there is an option I think to set how frequently it indexes the files, so can just set that to run daily or weekly in the middle of the night.

Just need to work out how to get the NAS to show up as a server in iTunes now!

[GilesGuthrie]

Originally Posted by elrao

Thanks for the reply, will check it out.

For auto-importing music, I have seen this iTunes Library Updater at Everything iTunes [Windows Version] mentioned a few places, but don't have any experience of it myself.

Oh, OK, I'll check that out.

Originally Posted by elrao

So, if I used smartsync, set up on both our windows accounts, to sync any music from out 'iTunes/Music' folders to the //NAS/Music folder, then that would centralise all the music for us (would then have to delete the copies in the iTunes folders), then run the library updater on both our windows accounts, to update our libraries separately.
Would just not have any playlists snyced, but can live without that.

Yeah, I'd configure SmartSync to do a "Synchronise source and destination" with the two iTunes libraries on the computer. That would make both users' libraries identical, including file deletions, copying both ways if necessary (i.e. new content in John's library is copied to Jane's, and new content in Jane's is copied to John's).

Then run a "Copy source to destination" (including the "Delete unmatched files from destination" flag) to one-way sync John's library to the NAS.

Originally Posted by elrao

The SONOS just picks up everything in the NAS directory, there is an option I think to set how frequently it indexes the files, so can just set that to run daily or weekly in the middle of the night.

Cool. Sounds like Firefly Media Server, which I was running before the Synology box.

Originally Posted by elrao

Just need to work out how to get the NAS to show up as a server in iTunes now!

Log into your Synology DiskStation Manager, go to Control Panel, then iTunes. Ensure that "Enable iTunes Service" is checked, then choose a name for the library. Click "Re-Index", then OK. Then in iTunes, go to the Edit menu, choose Preferences, hit the Sharing tab, and ensure that "Look for shared libraries" is checked.

Thanks for the reassuring words about the Sonos. I'm about to pick up one or two ZonePlayers to replace a couple of dead Roku Soundbridges.

[eaglemmoomin]

Would it not be easier to have the ITunes libraries stored on the NAS along with the actual files rather than duplicating the files. The added advantage of that is everything is in the NAS including playlists so for example UPNP servers eg Twonky can serve out audio and a client device that understand playlists will be able to pick them up and use them. ITunes will quite happily cope with the ITunes library file being else where. I have everything on my NAS box with a copy of the entire library and source files on another NAS box and everynow and again I write the library and files to bluray backup and take a copy of the library and files onto one of my PCs.

So a PC can access the music using ITunes. Also one of the NAS boxes has a Twonky UPNP dlna server running on it. So my PS3/XBOX can use dlna streaming, as can my AV processor (and non drm ITunes content can be played quite happilly). When Airplay turns up I'll probably trial it on my processor and if I get on with it I'll look at a network music player that supports airplay for the bedroom.

[elrao]

Looks like my thread has been edited and merged here, so doesn't read too easily!

An update from my side is that I have the ITLU app working quite well through it's GUI. I have added some music to my NAS music folder, deleted some, moved some (change folder structure) and then run the ITLU and it all appears to be updating correctly. Have researched running it through a scheduled task, so that will be next to set it to run daily to keep my iTunes library synched with my music folder (can have it run twice to sync my wife's iTunes library also - or may sync the two libraries together directly as mentioned elsewhere - although we have different apple accounts and iphone apps etc - so need to keep those parts separate, need to have a look through the xml see what is in there).

Am not sure how it will cope with songs in playlists, i.e. if I move a song that is in a playlist, will it automatically pick up the new 'copy' of that song or not. One for another day.

Am concentrating on cleaning up my library though at the moment, bout a license for TuneUp, works quite well if you work album by album, using it in conjunction with mp3tag and getting good overall results.

Once the library is clean, then I will start looking at the best way to include anything ripped in iTunes, whether that is to sync to the NAS and then delete from the iTunes folder (so I don't end up with two copies), or to move the iTunes folder(s) to the NAS and have the ITLU monitor all three locations (NAS/Music, NAS/Wife/iTunes and NAS/MyFiles/iTunes).

[wysinawyg]

A few useful things for people to look into here:

1. Home Sharing - If you're trying to run more than 1 iTunes account its vital to get this enabled. Its not a fire and forget solution to the NAS issues but if you have one iTunes library pointed at a NAS and another with home sharing then anything ripped on the one tied to the NAS would automatically end up there and anything from the other can easily be synched through Home Sharing and using the "Not in my library" or whatever the exact wording is in the dropdown. Not automatic but very quick and easy to keep multiple libraries with all the same tracks.

2. "Automatically add to iTunes" - not sure from some of the questions if everyone is aware of this folder (I think on PCs although I only do iTunes on Macs these days). Basically if you look in your iTunes folder you should find this sub-directory and anything placed in this will automatically be put into iTunes, so a great target for any files which aren't ripped through iTunes.

3. Moving computers - lots of tutorials around for how to do this properly, no reason at all to lose playlists moving from one computer to another if you let iTunes do the transfer rather than trying to move everything manually.

4. Airplay - this is now a much bigger more integrated umbrella including what used to be AirTunes (but going a fair way beyond). The two biggest additions being the addition of video streaming as part of the protocol and no need for a computer running iTunes any more (although its streaming from an iPhone / iPod Touch not from a NAS, although given the 128kbps tickbox that isn't such a burden for casual listening).

[elrao]

I thought the Home Sharing was when you have the same iTunes account, but more than one PC? So it syncs the iTunes libraries across PCs for you, but on the same iTunes account?

In my case we have different Windows logons and different iTunes accounts (different apps etc.)

[wysinawyg]

Ah yes that might be the case, I'd strongly suggest consolidating to a single iTunes account though. No need to pay twice for apps and you can do all the management of apps quite separately for the two devices. Similarly e-mail, calendars etc. can all be run very separately (or part separate and part combined) with a single iTunes account and one or more PCs, iPhones etc.

I suspect for the consolidation process though you could just log in with a different iTunes account whenever you wanted to use Home Sharing to synch up. Of course that won't help with any protected content which you'll be barred from synching if its been bought on another account.

[richymtfc]

I've been wanting a Squeezebox for ages and now shopping around to make sure it will actually do what I want it to and thought I'd be best to get your opinions.

Basically, I currently use iTunes on my Windows laptop, but would like a system that does the following.

Mainly, I don't want to have to have my laptop on all the time to listen to my music.

From reading about the Squeezebox Touch it does have a USB port I could plug in an external harddrive with music on, and can then easily play my music from that with my Squeezebox Touch connected to my amp.

Using this harddrive option, is there a way to sync my music from my laptop to the Squeezebox wirelessly if any music is added to my iTunes for example without having to unplug the harddrive from my squeezebox, plug it into my laptop, then sync it that way.


I'm not overly fussed about online radio, and at the moment, being able to play in multiple rooms, although this could be a useful option at a later date. I do like how the Squeezebox will scrobble using last.fm so this is a bonus.


Does the Squeezebox Touch do what I think it will, and are there any other better options?


Thanks.

[Warpaint]

Have a look at

Playing music from SD card or USB drive with Squeezebox Touch

I haven't personally seen this functioning. Perhaps someone who owns a Squeezebox Touch and a USB drive will answer definitively, but from the support site it certainly looks as if it will play from the drive.
I can't answer the wireless update question though. I will depend on whether the Squeezebox with USB attached can opreate as a NAS drive on your network.

It would be a better option to install a NAS drive which can run the Squeezebox server software. Then you could set this up as your default iTunes music location from the laptop. Any music ripped into the itunes library would then automatically be saved on the NAS drive.

[amcluesent]

Originally Posted by richymtfc

Using this harddrive option, is there a way to sync my music from my laptop to the Squeezebox wirelessly if any music is added to my iTunes for example without having to unplug the harddrive from my squeezebox, plug it into my laptop, then sync it that way.

Welcome to the Forum. I moved your post to this thread on using iTunes.

The Touch with USB disk becomes a NAS in its own right and will offer a mountable share over the network to Windows.

At it's simplest, you can use something like AllwaysSync to sync your iTunes directory with the music directory on the share. The downside is that by default iTunes is always fussing with files; see the posts above for some ideas about this.

[richymtfc]

Thanks very much to you both. Deffo something I'll have to have a look into and I'll have a read with the rest of this thread.

[richymtfc]

Ok so I've gone ahead and bought my Squeezebox Touch. :-)

I've got it playing from the harddrive connect to the USB slot. I don't seem to be able to see this harddrive from my laptop though. I've tried going to the Squeezebox Server IP address, and can see printers (even though I don't have any printers), but not the info on the harddrive. Does anyone know if this is possible?

[amcluesent]

Yes, the USB drive can be used as shared drive on the network. You need to enable this from a menu on the Touch and the screen will give login info. It has been discussed on the Forum.

[Scrutney2]

Try this:

MediaRover: Bring Your Family's iTunes Libraries Together

[Emanef]

Thought I'd bounce this up as amcluesent has referred me to it for my similar post.

How did people set their Squeezeboxes up with iTunes in the end?

My iTunes music is on my laptop, but I don't want to need to keep it on to be able to access music, so want to copy over all the music to my Windows Home Server 2011, which is on all the time. After realising some of the limitations of iTunes, I'm looking at copying over all my music and iTunes database to the WHS to have them duplicated there for when I want to stream from the Squeezebox, but I'm not sure about how best to get it working on the WHS. Does iTunes install OK on WHS 2011? And do I need to have iTunes running for the Squeezebox Server (which is also on the WHS) to pick up the iTunes files? Or is justs installing iTunes and having the files on there enough?

[opencube]

Im interested in something similar.

Require iTunes as library as family have iPhones and iPod Touches (and soon to be iPads).

Was hoping to have iTunes installed on a basic NAS (for music storage and backup of photos/docs on family iMac).
Is this possible? If so what NAS would people recommend?


Also I like the look and price of the Squezebox Touch over the SONOS products, but from what ive read the Squeezebox with iTunes can be a nightmare and SONOS is easier to setup....is this true?

Im surprised that Apple havent created something better than Airplay/Airport Express so each room can have a wireless network player plugged into an existing amp in rooms and allow for different music be played in different rooms!

[Breeze]

Hi

Current set up for movies/TV is about to be:

Onkyo TX-NR609 receiver
Panasonic DMP-BDT310
Cambridge Minx 225
Epson TW3200 PJ
Sky +
PS3

I need to sort the music side.

At the moment, I play music from a large iTunes library of 150GB via an Airport Express into an amp (which will soon be the Onkyo above). I also have a Time Capsule on a wireless network to back up my MacBook Pro, which is where the (various kinds of) music files are stored.

I want to be able to play my music without using the MacBook Pro, through the above set-up.

I don't need multi-room facility, but I would like to be able to create playlists and am happy to use an app on an iPhone to control it all.

I'm getting confused with the NAS drive/streamer options - and what is the difference between them and a media server/client?

For example, does the Cambridge Audio NP30 also require a NAS device or does it have decent size storage built in?
Similarly, does the Synology DS211J as a storage device also require a streamer to play from it?

Richer Sounds suggested the WD Mybook World Live but he wasn't sure about iTunes compatibility and I still don't know if this is a streamer or NAS or both.

Finally, I need something whereby when I add further music to my iTunes library, the streamer/storage is updated with it automatically.

Many thanks.

[Matt_C]

Instead of the AEx, use a 1st-gen Apple TV, 160gb model. Sync iTunes content to it from your MacBook (playlists and all) then use iPhone/pad/pod Remote App to control it. If you set iTunes to automatically sync with the ATV then anything new added will be synced to the ATV automatically.

And if you are worried about storage space, you can upgrade the internal drive in the ATV (internal drive is a 2.5 IDE drive, so you're limited to 320gb (I think that's the max, maybe 500?) or chuck in a 1TB 2.5 SATA disk with a conversion kit . Or buy one already converted. Or enable the USB slot on the back (means jailbreaking it) and plug in an external drive.

[Breeze]

Thanks for that, I shall investigate.

In the meantime, is anyone able to answer the more fundamental questions in my original post, outlining the difference?

[Matt_C]

Put very simply

NAS = Network Attached Storage. In it's basic form, it's a disk (or bunch of disks) plugged into the network, made available to some or all computer/devices on that network

Media Server - typically incorporates storage, which software to serve media (stored on that storage). So in essence, it's a NAS with installed software; such as Twonky, Firefly, etc.

Personally, I like my devices to run the software and the NAS to just be a NAS

[niall campbell]

the Onkyo 609 will play straight from a NAS !!!!

WD My Book Live Personal Cloud Storage 2 TB Network Attached Storage: Amazon.co.uk: Computers & Accessories