[kopchoir]

I love my football and when i speak to people about football who dont really follow the game, they cant see why im so enthusiastic about it i love it i will watch whatever game is on from premier league to the championship to the french league to the spanish league ill watch whatever is on the tv if i cant get to the game.
Recently you have had Big clubs with the likes of charlton southampton forest leeds lecicester fall into obscurity the money in the game is beyond a joke, the england team after a crop of some good players terry,gerrard,lampard,rooney i cant see where the next england players are coming from as young english talent is few and far between if you look at middlesboro they have an impressive youth setup and really nurture there english players and struggling at the bottom of the league where as teh top 4 pick thier youth from all over the world.

Now clubs like leeds southahmpton may be given a life line with the proposal of premier 2 where it will be based on profitability,gate numbers commercial invitation only
My local club bury who i used to follow every week at gigg lane have had a tremendous season are pushing for promotion these teams will suffer the most with this premier league 2 nonesense, football used to be a working mans game the removal of terraces was a huge significance it took a huge tragedy that you all know i feel strongly about to change the game.
Although safety of supporters is paramount i think the game lost something when it went all seater if i sit in the kop end and stand up when my team is attacking the tannoy goes sit down its an entertainment now not a sport and the working man is being priced out.

The sport is being shortchanged when sky took over and bought the premier league when it went all seater they must of thought here we go, now there are arguments for and against the sport now it attracted players like bergkamp zola klinsman cantona great great players that has now continued torres ronaldo everyone wants to play in engalnd but at what price.
The premier league 2 announcement took me by surprise the other week and today i read that a chairman says it is inevitable that this will happen, i know its always been about the money and the monopoly of the big 4 has not desisted, even though manchester united arsenal and liverpool are in mountins of huge debt man utd have debts of around 1 billion i read the other day
You could feed third world countries with that, on a footballing basis i have always despised man utd being a liverpool fan but deep down there has always been huge footballing respect for them ssshh dont tell anyone, but i remember my cousin being a man utd fan in the 90`s and they were bringing out 5 kits a year and he always wanted the new one my auntie just could not understand it,99 when they won the treble they charged fans to go and see the trophy at the MEN i think now its common practice for clubs to shortchange their fans the same people who put them there.
I am now starting to agree with platini and his thoughts and methods the premier league is dominating european competition but the english national team failed to qualify for the last tournament.
The question is where do we go from here wage caps, wages that reflect around income we need to start protecting and helping the smaller clubs who a barely surviving, as of next year im going to be going back to gigg lane to support my local team once more as they need it.
And when this premier league 2 comes in one team gets releagted and 1 goes down no more playoffs its becomig a circus and all boils down to greed anyoen have any thoughts or there own opinion as i woudl ove to hear it
Kop

[DrWise]

Yeah i agree its being dominated by the money, Personally i would hate to see all these top arab businessmen taking over these football clubs, it happened with city, but seriously i hope liverpool dont let arab owners take over, because wages will become stupidly insane, the money spent on players will become crazy as if isnt already,
just remembering the days when we could buy quality for like 1-2 million with the likes of cantona and so on, i know quite a handful of people who followed football like it was part of them, but since city got took over, the money spent on robinho and berbatov, they've just drifted away from the sport.
All this talk about the IPL delhi daredevils Owner also wanting to buy liverpool, we got the indian cricket team sponsors eyeing up a deal for man utd, honestly i dont know football is not what it once used to be, and if ronaldo goes in the summer for a crazy amount i think they wage cap should come into play and also a cap on the money spent on players thats my input for today i made no sense so im sorry in advance

[Steven]

Its already gone that way with the CL, hence the pointless rebranding of the "Europa League"

I've just come back from Arsenal v Boro and can say a two-tier top flight would benefit only the top 4 and Rangers and Celtic. I say benefit, in the sense that mid-table team down are stuck between a rock and a hard place. Perpetual yo-yo clubs like Birmingham are going to be hamstrung as well

I wouldn't give too much credit to Platini - he chickened out. 3 automatic CL spots for England, Italy and Spain, 4th place "harder" qualifying and giving automatic spots to Eastern European countries was not the solution. All it will do is give those teams a financial advantage. And then those leagues can go and become Scotland!

[Decadence]

Personally I'm all for the "top four" exiting the premier league and joining a european super league instead.

[fcz]

Originally Posted by Decadence

Personally I'm all for the "top four" exiting the premier league and joining a european super league instead.

and stuff their legit fans who travel to away games and are working class men who follow their local clubs?!!

[reddevil63]

Definitely think salary cap should be introduced and operated in a similar way to American Football.

Thats why you hardly ever see one team dominate the NFL, every club gets a fair shot at the championship and/or Superbowl. Its very rare to see a team win back to back Superbowls.

Actually think it makes the whole thing that much more exciting.

Then you look at the draft system involved, would that work in our game? I don't know but even that is a big thing stateside.

[BlackCountryBob]

To be fair though, the salary cap works in US sports due to the fact that every player is owned by the league itself like all the clubs and mainly because there is no pressure on salary's from outside the US forcing them up. NHL, NBA, NFL are all pretty much US monopolies. The EPL needs to pay more than Spain or Italy.

The draft is a nice idea but it would be difficult to implement. Maybe there is a minor possibility of the teams combining all their efforts in the youth academy area into one league academy but then to replicate the NFL draft it would mean that the best young players (Walcott, Rooney etc) would go to the worst teams in the league while the big four would be receiving the others. I can't see this happening myself. Also, how would promoted or relegated teams fit in to this? The NFL works because no matter how bad of a season you have, you wont go bust and the rules make it so you will get the most help the next year.

I am not in favour of a salary cap myself. I know some get paid lots and in all honesty it is too much. However, when I see Jin Carey getting $20m a movie and the winner of Wimbledon gets $1.3m then maybe a player making £5m a year is not entirely abhorrent.

Personally I would prefer to see a Europe wide change in salary to reward performance. Players get a base pay which is dependent on the league they are in BUT the promoted teams in the division get a higher base to encourage a larger spread of talent to them. Then players are paid more based on goals scored, games/mins played, saves, clean sheets, bookings etc. That way, the best players at the best clubs would be able to rake it in if they performed well but if they were coasting or not playing much (Luis Nani I am looking at you) then it would be more worthwhile for them to move to another club lower in the league where they would be able to earn more just for showing up and playing rather than sat on the bench at a big 4 club plus they would have the opportunity to get more by performing well.

[Steven]

Originally Posted by fcz

and stuff their legit fans who travel to away games and are working class men who follow their local clubs?!!

But Heathrow airport would be closer for some of them

's advocate

[Ian J]

Originally Posted by fcz

and stuff their legit fans who travel to away games and are working class men who follow their local clubs?!!

That's an old fashioned concept that doesn't seem to apply so much nowadays. My interest in footie disappeared when Sky took over the management of the game which was about the same time as people stopped supporting their local club but pledged their allegiance to a club with which they had no affinity whatsoever apart from the fact that they were big and successful.

[dazza1011]

Originally Posted by kopchoir

.
Recently you have had Big clubs with the likes of charlton southampton forest leeds lecicester fall into obscurity Big clubs??


My local club bury who i used to follow every week at gigg lane have had a tremendous season are pushing for promotion these teams will suffer the most with this premier league 2 nonesense.

The question is where do we go from here wage caps, wages that reflect around income we need to start protecting and helping the smaller clubs who a barely surviving, as of next year im going to be going back to gigg lane to support my local team once more as they need it.

maybe if you had supported Bury from the off rather than supporting a big team ( Liverpool ) things would be a lot better.

I cant get my head round people who have a perfectly good club down the road but insist on supporting Liverpool Man Utd etc etc because they are successful, and half of the time they have never set foot in their teams ground.

[Decadence]

Originally Posted by fcz

and stuff their legit fans who travel to away games and are working class men who follow their local clubs?!!

The top four clubs have moved so far past being interested in that type of fan that it's a wonder any are left following them. And if you still do it more fool you because you've lost sight of what real football is all about too.

[loz]

but unless you are going to insist that players are born locally, why suggest that fans should support their local club?

Why support the club nearest to me if the players are all from South America, Asia, Africa and Eastern Europe?

What affiliation do I have with that club other than distance to travel?

Why would someone from North London feel affiliation with Arsenal when it fields 11 overseas players?

In the days when it was "working class men who follow their local clubs", it was as much about working class local players as well. They were your local heros.

Nowadays, the players come from anywhere. So why not the supporters?

[Rorifett]

Originally Posted by kopchoir

the england team after a crop of some good players terry,gerrard,lampard,rooney i cant see where the next england players are coming from
Kop

Everton Academy

[oj0]

Originally Posted by loz

but unless you are going to insist that players are born locally, why suggest that fans should support their local club?

Because if the Mancunians don't get behind the Neviller and Wes 'the only Black man with ginger hair on the planet' Brown, who else will???

(OK, I realise that is hugely ironic seeing as most Man Utd fans come from Surrey, but apply the same logic to 'Carra', Big JT or Alan 'The Messiah' Shearer)

[reddevil63]

I will support who the hell I want.

It annoys me when people moan you should support your local club, well sorry I don't as I am not from where I live. Yes I keep an eye on the local team results but thats how far as it goes.

I have been a Man Utd fan since knee high and someone to say that I am a glory hunter and no idea of real football really gets on my nerves. I have been to OT to watch games and if I lived any closer to Manchester I would be there more often.

The distance at this moment would cost me far too much so what am I suppose to do, support local? No bloody way, once a Red always a Red!

[dazza1011]

Originally Posted by reddevil63

I will support who the hell I want.

It annoys me when people moan you should support your local club, well sorry I don't as I am not from where I live. Yes I keep an eye on the local team results but thats how far as it goes.

I have been a Man Utd fan since knee high and someone to say that I am a glory hunter and no idea of real football really gets on my nerves. I have been to OT to watch games and if I lived any closer to Manchester I would be there more often.

The distance at this moment would cost me far too much so what am I suppose to do, support local? No bloody way, once a Red always a Red!

i dont understand the bit i have highlighted, what i am trying to say is that i feel that if you are from Swindon then why not support Swindon Town im not saying that if you move to Swindon from Manchester then you should support Swindon

if you read my post i didnt say people who follow a team dont know anything about football however i will stand by my claim about glory hunters and other armchair supporters

[Ian J]

Originally Posted by reddevil63

I will support who the hell I want.

It annoys me when people moan you should support your local club, well sorry I don't as I am not from where I live. Yes I keep an eye on the local team results but thats how far as it goes.

I don't think that anyone says that people should change their team every time they move location but the glory hunters tend to have had no relationship with the town / city of their choice at all.

Why on earth would anyone who has never had a relationship with Manchester / Liverpool / AN Other at all support them if it wasn't for the perceived glory of supporting a fashionable succesful team.

I wonder how long the Manchester United supporters would hang around for if the unthinkable happened and they ever got relegated. Not long is my guess.

[kopchoir]

Originally Posted by dazza1011

maybe if you had supported Bury from the off rather than supporting a big team ( Liverpool ) things would be a lot better.

I cant get my head round people who have a perfectly good club down the road but insist on supporting Liverpool Man Utd etc etc because they are successful, and half of the time they have never set foot in their teams ground.

You know i ahve always supported liverpool since i was a nipper and go to as many games as i can

Originally Posted by dazza1011

i dont understand the bit i have highlighted, what i am trying to say is that i feel that if you are from Swindon then why not support Swindon Town im not saying that if you move to Swindon from Manchester then you should support Swindon

if you read my post i didnt say people who follow a team dont know anything about football however i will stand by my claim about glory hunters and other armchair supporters

I agree with you and see your point but you can only pick one team and stay with that team, on another note i can get a ticket for the kop end for £30 and gigg lane charge me £20 so for an extra tenner i get to see the team i support. I know its difficult for smaller clubs to charge a reasonable amount of money due to financial restraints but if bury probably dropped prices a tad i would probably go see both but cant justify the two.

But no matter how much you look at it greed is becoming the norm now the likes of your team and ians team will possibbly be invited into prem2 its the other teams i worry about now.
I just cant see how the powers that be can justify one team releagted and 1 team promoted from around 30+ clubs that will be left out bad form imo

[reddevil63]

Originally Posted by Ian J

I don't think that anyone says that people should change their team every time they move location but the glory hunters tend to have had no relationship with the town / city of their choice at all.

Why on earth would anyone who has never had a relationship with Manchester / Liverpool / AN Other at all support them if it wasn't for the perceived glory of supporting a fashionable succesful team.

I wonder how long the Manchester United supporters would hang around for if the unthinkable happened and they ever got relegated. Not long is my guess.

Yes in a sense that is true but from my point of view I am not a glory hunter and even if the unthinkable happen and Man Utd got relegated I would still support them.

I have lived through the seasons we won nothing, seeing Liverpool dominate the 70's and 80's but even with that happening I hoped one day our time would come and it did in 1993.

My dad didn't live far from where George Best grew up and through that my support and love for Man Utd was born.

I couldn't and wouldn't support any other team.

[Wild Weasel]

Maybe we'll see more & more like this:

Southampton will fold in eight days without a buyer | Football | The Guardian

[Rorifett]

If teams spent (or heaven forbid saved) money more wisely and didn't do what the masses of Britain are doing and spending everything the banks throw at them then moan cos they're in debt then maybe we wouldn't have situations like the saints are in.

I cannot support a 'local' team, I don't have a local team, I was born in Kelso pop. about 45 lol so this 'you've gotta support your local team' means as much to me as diddly squat. I moved to Livingston as a kid and they formed a football team but I'm not 'from' Livingston and it's makes as much sense supporting anyone as it does Livingston.

Living in Scotland you don't get to see many football games unless you get sky/setanta. When I started supporting Everton it was for numerous factors but mainly that Everton played a Scottish brand of football namely hoof n hope and out of the little exposure I got of football on tv (MotD since I didn't have sky or setanta as a lad) I chose my club from there.

I hate this elitist attitude testes that you have to come from a place to support a team.

[plazmoid]

My local side is Queen of the South and i support Rangers. I always want queens to do well but as in the scottish cup final last season i would back the team i support ahead of my local team.

The reason i support Rangers is that my dad supports them and his dad (i think??) supported them as well as does my younger brother.

A lot of my mates support teams from England despite being Scottish through and through such as Chelsea, Man Utd, Liverpool and even West Ham.

People can support whoever they want to and imo do not need a reason to do so.

[Abbeygoo]

Originally Posted by reddevil63

I have lived through the seasons we won nothing, seeing Liverpool dominate the 70's and 80's but even with that happening I hoped one day our time would come and it did in 1993.

My dad didn't live far from where George Best grew up and through that my support and love for Man Utd was born.

I couldn't and wouldn't support any other team.

What a reason that is! I once had a parcel delivered from somewhere near where someone who once flew on the same plane as the pilot who trained with someone who flew Alfredo Di Stefano home once ..... for that reason I support Real Madrid.

Come on you, erm, do they still play in white?

[oj0]

Originally Posted by Abbeygoo

What a reason that is! I once had a parcel delivered from somewhere near where someone who once flew on the same plane as the pilot who trained with someone who flew Alfredo Di Stefano home once ..... for that reason I support Real Madrid.

Come on you, erm, do they still play in white?

I think thats being a little bit unreasonable to be fair. How about if someone in your town is really awesome at ice hockey and somehow ends up becoming a huge star in the NHL. Now when it comes to having an interest in NHL your main connection with the sport comes from the fact that someone near to you (a local hero if you like) has 'made it' in the sport, so you choose to support that team.

Now your options then are to either support every team that the one player then plays for, or continue supporting the first team that ever really captured your attention. In George Best's case, the only team he played for during the successful part of his career was Man United. I know he played at smaller clubs in Britain and spent a few years in the States, but his playing career for Man United was what put him on the map pure and simply.

[neilios]

Its not supporting a team by just buying a shirt ,if your from surrey why not support rotherham united or blackpool ,is it because they are **** .

The game has fragmented no soul anymore because the new breed of fans only relate to the club because they win ,look at the atmosphere at some prem games ,deadly quiet .

Sky has allowed a new breed of fans to watch the game ,who infect the pubs on a weekend with those stupid shirts and fake support .

[super-saint]

Being a Saints I gotta agree that football is going down the toilet

I think it's gonna take a Premiership team (heres hoping P*mpey ) to go bust for everyone to wake up & say that the money in football is ridiculous.

Football needs to get back to basics.....no Frank Lampard high wages, no foreign investment, no $ky......jumpers for goalposts etc etc

[Decadence]

A wage cap?

[GasDad]

Originally Posted by super-saint

Being a Saints I gotta agree that football is going down the toilet

I think it's gonna take a Premiership team (heres hoping P*mpey ) to go bust for everyone to wake up & say that the money in football is ridiculous.

Football needs to get back to basics.....no Frank Lampard high wages, no foreign investment, no $ky......jumpers for goalposts etc etc

Well you'll get the chance next season - come up here when your lot play Bristol Rovers, and you can stand on a terrace and if its raining you'll get wet

The pasties are good though.

[Rorifett]

Originally Posted by neilios

Its not supporting a team by just buying a shirt ,if your from surrey why not support rotherham united or blackpool ,is it because they are **** .

The game has fragmented no soul anymore because the new breed of fans only relate to the club because they win ,look at the atmosphere at some prem games ,deadly quiet .

Sky has allowed a new breed of fans to watch the game ,who infect the pubs on a weekend with those stupid shirts and fake support .

I'll get a ladder to help you off that high-horse sunshine.

[Abbeygoo]

Originally Posted by oj0

I think thats being a little bit unreasonable to be fair. How about if someone in your town is really awesome at ice hockey and somehow ends up becoming a huge star in the NHL. Now when it comes to having an interest in NHL your main connection with the sport comes from the fact that someone near to you (a local hero if you like) has 'made it' in the sport, so you choose to support that team.

Now your options then are to either support every team that the one player then plays for, or continue supporting the first team that ever really captured your attention. In George Best's case, the only team he played for during the successful part of his career was Man United. I know he played at smaller clubs in Britain and spent a few years in the States, but his playing career for Man United was what put him on the map pure and simply.

Still a very poor reason to support them. Is it a coincedence then that the team you happen to support was the very same one that won the European Cup a few years earlier .... I think not.

I've no problem in people supporting who they want but never admitting they are glory hunters is sometimes laughable. The attempts to justify it are equally so by saying, "I've supported them all my life" - that's irrelevant pal. You can't claim to be a supporter of any team that you never go and see in the flesh and live 200 miles away from - why support them? Its because they are winning and you have a Sky subscription and remote control to justify ......