[BlackCountryBob]

Bolton Chairman Phil Gartside has put forward a plan for debate this week that the 20 club premier league should split into 2 divisions of 16 teams which would possibly include the old firm clubs from Scotland.

Read the BBC story here

Beyond the discussions of the good and bad of the Old Firm playing in the EPL, my question is if the smaller 2 tier Prem is a good or bad idea in your books?

I'm torn personally. On the plus side I can see how having 8 less pre games per season would be beneficial in terms of internationals and cup competitions to keep players fresh. I can also see the arguement that it will give a slightly less harsh environment for teams being relegated and also will give a more staggered step up for teams promoted which can only be a good thing.

However, on the downside I think the top 16 will become even more entrenched because the top 7 or 8 teams (the big 4, Villa, Everton, Spurs and Man City) have the financial clout to really make their places cemented and it will be harder for smaller teams like Fulham, Wigan and West Ham to break into the possible European places. Also in reality the EPL2 will become little more than just the Championship re branded unless the 2 leagues are packaged together in both name and the sale of TV coverage.

The biggest problem I guess would be how even more of the top players would be focused into the top 16 clubs and make it more difficult still for the EPL2 teams to attract good players. Maybe if there was some structure of wage or transfer caps or even a maximum number of players allowed in a squad (possibly even age caps like you have to have 6 of your 24 players under 23 and no more than 5 over 30) then it could lead to a more even distribution of players and quality.

I dunno, unlikely to ever happen but it is an interesting idea worthy of debate.

[kopchoir]

Never happen and absoloute joke of an idea

[Scholes18]

Originally Posted by kopchoir

Never happen and absoloute joke of an idea

Hardly news bearing in mind it was thought up bu phil gartside. The man who nearly makes garry cook look sensible.

[Beetlejuice]

Just been reading about this online... seems silly to me!

[kopchoir]

Its good for some teams dont get me wrong but it would make a mockery of the lower leagues and the smaller teams who dont get anywhere near as much cash according to the idea 1 team gets relegated from prem 2 and 1 goes up so that will mean no play offs no chance for other teams
it stinks of greed again

[DJT75]

& what right do Rangers & Celtic have to just slot into our top tier leagues without some sort of qualification?

If they are ever to join us they need to start at the bottom & work their way up like everyone else.

[Mindcrime]

Originally Posted by kopchoir

Never happen and absoloute joke of an idea

It's only as silly an idea as the supposed "top" teams in Europe having their own break away league.

Why don't the people in power just leave the game alone?

[Wild Weasel]

Half Time Multi-ball !!

[lostinspace]

I agree it should be consigned to the dustbin.
But this is football we're talking about, so if it makes more money, it'll happen one day.

[gosties]

I'm a non old-firm supporter and would have reservations about the old-firm leaving the Scottish Game.

1) What type of sponsorship,media interest would be left without them.
2) Scottish Football has been dominated by both teams it would be hard to see a league without them.

I don't subscribe to the notion either that within 5 years they will be competing on a par with the established big four. I can only see them as a 5-10 place in the League as the top four look to be entrenched.

Aston Villa have spent a fortune and are still short despite an indifferent Arsenal due to injuries. Man City are the only club if the money is spent properly that have any likelihood of breaking the top-four but even that is debatable.

Access to the Champion's League has made the top four a closed-shop and the finances generated keep them pulling further away. Financially only Barcelona and Real Madrid can compete financially with the top four.

Celtic and Rangers are both large clubs but are no bigger than Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool,Newcastle, Tottenham, Aston Villa. The problem as I see it is they can improve their squads if they reached the Premiership through the extra financial resources acquired. But the top-quality players will still go to the top-four and the rest will go to the next clubs down the ladder.

I would be interested to observe how Old-Firm supporters would handle the lack of trophies won each season. If clubs like Everton can go 15 years without winning a trophy so could the likes of the Old-Firm.

Their is also the talk that even if they made the top-four would the FA even nominate them for a Champions League place as the places are for England's representatives and neither side are English.

[kopchoir]

I actually think the scottish game would improve and be much much better if they leaved it would asl be good for the national team

[Rorifett]

Yeah I reckon instead of Hibs and Hearts losing their best players at 21 to Rangers and Celtic reserve squads then it'd help the scottish leagues, not sure about Rangers and Celtic going down to the English leagues though, as others have said it's not entirely fair them being put in near the top of the league but I can't imagine seeing them start at the bottom and work their ways up.

Would be a bit of a stinker winning the championship and not getting promoted to the premier league.

[Sonic67]

I pity the Portsmouth fan who has a midweek fixture against a Scottish club. How big a round trip is that? What happens if the match goes to extra time and you then have a long drive back in the early hours? Will we see more deaths from people falling asleep at the wheel? These deaths will be related to clubs and money.

[DJT75]

[QUOTE=Sonic67;9353092]I pity the Portsmouth fan who has a midweek fixture against a Scottish club. How big a round trip is that? What happens if the match goes to extra time and you then have a long drive back in the early hours? Will we see more deaths from people falling asleep at the wheel? These deaths will be related to clubs and money.[/QUOTE]

Just a little bit extreme

[Rorifett]

Originally Posted by Sonic67

Will we see more deaths from people falling asleep at the wheel? These deaths will be related to clubs and money.

Lol and lol again...


*EDIT*

Snap! lol

[homer timpson]

Originally Posted by Sonic67

I pity the Portsmouth fan who has a midweek fixture against a Scottish club.
How big a round trip is that? What happens if the match goes to extra time.

Whatever next

FA Cup semi-finals being moved to Wembley and played on a Sunday with no proper transport provision for fans
getting back up North in the event of extra time or penalties

So - what would come first - Money spinning opportunity or consideration of the football supporter

Homer

[johnscarlet]

I can't see how PL2 will be any different to the Championship now , other than smaller.
Stupid Idea

[JohnG]

I'm against any plan to bring Scottish clubs into our league, it's usually Sky who keep mentioning this so they can sell more subs in Scotland I reckon. The other thing that always annoys me when they talk about bringing in the Scottish teams is that they think they have a right to join a Premier League. There are English clubs who've been trying to gain a place in the top league for years by fair means and they come up with a plan to just give a place to 2 outsiders.

[homer timpson]

As a Celtic fan I'd sure like to see us compete week in week out in a proper league with the millions of pounds that are in the pot

Then again, IF the Old Firm ever accessed such a honey pot and then did absolutely sod all for the next 10 years but sit mid/bottom table or worse -
they would only be replicating the 'success' that 90% of English teams have already achieved in the Premier League

Taking out Blackburns one-off success in 94/95 we have:

Man Utd 10 [soon to be 11 so no change there]
Arsenal 3
Chelski 2

As far as I'm concerned the Old Firm would have a BETTER chance than the other 90% of also rans have shown in the past 10 years
for one simple reason - they have a Scottish manager at the helm

10 Premier League titles - SAF
1 Premier League title - Kenny Dalglish
5 Premier League titles - non English

Jeez, only 2 of the current top 10 spots in the PL are managed by one of your own

So, the Old Firm with oodles of cash thrown at them and a Scottish manager - bring it on Sky.



As for it actually happening and the other English clubs voting for it - well, they do say that turkeys don't vote for Christmas.
But, have you ever seen a turkey vote?

It's all down to keeping the PL the success it is and if the major sponsors want change they'll get there in the end.

Homer

[FazerThou]

Homer, I really don't think a Celtic fan should be passing comments about the lack of competition in the premier league

[homer timpson]

Why?

[BlackCountryBob]

I would just like to add something to the debate which really turns me off the idea of the split EPL idea.

I read the other day that the proposal was said to include the possibility that there would be no relegation from the EPL2 meaning that those 36 teams would be effectively breaking away from the lower leagues. I assume this would make the league 1 teams and down little more than zombie clubs just waiting to collapse.

I understand that the reasoning is that clubs would be less prone to huge epic falls like Charlton and Southampton but (a big round succulent butt) I think that clubs who are managed and run badly need to be allowed to die while well run clubs can move up and flourish (a la Hull, Wigan).

Either way, I think the thread is getting slightly sidetracked. It is not for debating the merits of the Old Firm joining the league south of the border but to debate the merits of a smaller 2 tier EPL which could possibly be a breakaway from the other leagues. I am sure the Old Firm has been discussed several times before on these forums and the thread/s ran their course.

[JohnG]

Yes it would be very bad for our football if nobody gets relegated from and promoted to those leagues. What's the point in doing well in the other leagues if you can't get any higher?