[ste v p]

Well it's just over two weeks until 'Geech picks his squad for the tour. There are some players that I think are dead certs for the tour but as always there are many players with their names in the hat. There are usually some wild card entries (think John Bentley '97) and some guys who have worked well with the coach in the past.

There are at least 3 players (maybe four) for each specialist position, hooker, scrum half, fly half. The touring party is likely to be 35 or 36 in total. I'm going for:

Key:
Underlined = Nailed on
Normal text = probables
Italic = possibles

Hookers (3): Jerry Flannery (Ire), Ross Ford (Sco) Lee Mears (Eng)

Props (5): Gethin Jenkins (Wal LH), Andrew Sheridan (Eng LH), Euan Murray (Sco TH), John Hayes (Ire TH), Phil Vickery (Eng LH/TH)

Second Row(4): Paul O'Connell (Ire), Alun Wyn Jones (Wal), Donnacha O'Callaghan (sp?) (Ire), Simon Shaw (Eng)

Back Row (6): Tom Croft (Eng), David Wallace (Ire), Jamie Heaslip (Ire), Ryan Jones (Wal), Martyn Williams (Wal), Joe Worsley (Eng)

Scrum Half (3): Mike Phillips (Wal), Mike Blair (Sco), Harry Ellis (Eng)

Fly Half (3): Stephen Jones (Wal), Ronan O'Gara (Ire), James Hook (Wal)

Centre (4): Riki Flutey (Eng/NZ IC) Brian O'Driscoll (Ire, Captain), Gordon D'Arcy (Ire), Tom Shanklin (Wal)

Wing (4): Shane Williams (Wal), Tommy Bowe (Ire), Leigh Halfpenny (Wal), Josh Lewsey (Eng)

Full Back (3): Lee Byrne (Wal), Delon Armitage (Eng), Rob Kearney (Ire)

35 in Total - 11 Irish, 11 Welsh, 10 English, 3 Scottish.

Notable Absences (players in italics are the ones I think are closest to making the trip):
Forwards: Rory Best (Ire), Mathew Rees (Wal); Marcus Horan (Ire), Adam Jones (Wal); Ian Gough (Wal), Nathan Hines (Sco), Nick Kennedy (Eng); Tom Rees (Eng), James Haskell (Eng), Alasdair Strokosh (Sco), Andy Powell (Wal), Stephen Ferris (Ire), Dennis Leamy (Ire)

Backs: Peter Stringer (Ire), Dwayne Peel (Wal), Danny Care (Eng) Chris Cusiter (Sco); Toby Flood (Eng), Johnny Wilkinson (Eng), Danny Cipriani (Eng); Gavin Henson (Wal), Jamie Roberts (Wal), Mike Tindall (Eng) Max Evans (Sco); Paul Sackey (Eng), Mark Cueto (Eng), Luke Fitzgerald (Ire), Tom Evans (Sco); Chris Paterson (Sco), Ben Foden (Eng)

Discuss!

[travid]

Havent got much time ATM, but you have made a lot of effort on this so come on peeps, give it a shot.

[Devil On Your S]

The glaring error would be Halfpenny, who won't and isn't good enough to tour. Lewsey may go as an utility back, but I'd rather someone like Simpson Daniel go. Cueto or Sackey may go as well. No way will D'Arcy tour over Roberts and Henson, either (or both) will go. Flutey is English as far as Rugby is concerned btw, I have no idea why you've put down NZ as well. You don't see ex Pacific Island players with NZ/Tonga or NZ/Samoa next to their names do you?

[ste v p]

Originally Posted by Devil On Your S

The glaring error would be Halfpenny, who won't and isn't good enough to tour.

He's played very well every time I've seen him for Cardiff. Not sure why he missed the remaining 6N games, but I think he was injured. I've also put him as a possible because I think the wing/full back spots are tough to call. The back row is tough to call because there are a lot of strong candidates. The wings are tough because there are few outstanding candidates. Even Shane Williams had a poor 6N by his standards.

Lewsey may go as an utility back, but I'd rather someone like Simpson Daniel go. Cueto or Sackey may go as well.

Cueto or Sackey are definitely in with a shout. For me, Lewsey edges it on physicality and defence which will be important against SA. Using the same criteria, JSD won't be on the plane.

No way will D'Arcy tour over Roberts and Henson, either (or both) will go.

Roberts looked very one-dimensional and Henson isn't exactly in sparkling form. That said, neither is D'Arcy but his partnership with O'Driscoll gives him my selection edge. Flutey should start at IC though.

Flutey is English as far as Rugby is concerned btw, I have no idea why you've put down NZ as well. You don't see ex Pacific Island players with NZ/Tonga or NZ/Samoa next to their names do you?

He is English by residence and therefore qualifies. I think he's an excellent player and has been key to England's improved fortunes. I put "NZ" in because some people may feel otherwise and to indicate why I think he is only a possible. There have been countless discussions about him touring and his background and the "NZ" is an acknoledgement of that. On form he should start at 12.

Originally Posted by travid

Havent got much time ATM, but you have made a lot of effort on this so come on peeps, give it a shot.

Thanks, far too much procrastination going on here!

[irgsefton]

I'd have Peel ahead of Ellis any day.

[redcat1]

i think james haskell and johnny wilkinson (if he gets a few games under his belt) will make the squad. Also reckon Paul O'Connell will be captain

[Devil On Your S]

The Hask had an apalling six nations! Should spend more time on his fitness than on promoting his own brand. Looks like Tom Croft has played himself into contention now. He'll go well on the hard grounds out there. Amazing how important some England players seem now after 2 good performances (Croft and Flutey).

Wilko has yet to start for Falcons, only a couple of games left, not sure if they'll be time for him to play into contention. I'd prefer a maverick as the 3rd fly half, someone a bit different - same for the 3rd scrummie. I hope Cips doesn't go - I don't want him on the England tour either. He needs to rest the ankle after having the pin taken out. Apparently he's still having pain. It would have been better for his career if he had come back next season properly rested and pain free. That leaves Hook, or maybe Flood or as a real bolter Geraghty. I'd go for Flood, he showed more control when England were on top and is a good attacking fly half. Hook hasn't looked good for a while now. I think Peel will make it as the 3rd scrummie for something different. Maybe Blair has played himself out of contention after a poor 6 nations?

[Guardo Bosque]

With Haskell’s impending departure to Stade, I wouldn’t be surprised if he was regularly omitted from the England squad. Having said that, with a Lions management that have at some point or another been at Wasps, I wouldn’t be surprised to see him make the tour selection.

The problem with Haskell is that he is yet to specialise a position. I can’t see him usurping Parisse at 8 or Bergamasco at openside. This, presumably, means that he’ll be playing blindside for Stade, and in direct competition with Croft for an England place. If that happens then I’ll be disappointed because I can see a back row trio of Croft, Haskell (playing at number 8) and Rees, being a formidable force for England and the Lions.

[ste v p]

Originally Posted by Guardo Bosque

With Haskell’s impending departure to Stade, I wouldn’t be surprised if he was regularly omitted from the England squad. Having said that, with a Lions management that have at some point or another been at Wasps, I wouldn’t be surprised to see him make the tour selection.

The problem with Haskell is that he is yet to specialise a position. I can’t see him usurping Parisse at 8 or Bergamasco at openside. This, presumably, means that he’ll be playing blindside for Stade, and in direct competition with Croft for an England place. If that happens then I’ll be disappointed because I can see a back row trio of Croft, Haskell (playing at number 8) and Rees, being a formidable force for England and the Lions.

I heard Haskell being interviewed by Matt Dawson on the radio last week. He basically said that if he was playing well enough then they would have to pick him. It wasn't said in an arrogant way just stating the reason he believes he was dropeed in the 6N was not because of the move to Stade but because he wasn't really setting the world alight. Had he been in sparkling form, they wouldn't have dropped him.

I would like to see Rees on the Lions tour and I'm pretty sure he will go at some stage in his career. However missing the 6N through injury won't have helped his case and the back row is probably the most hotly contested area with all four nations having excellent players there. Whoever they pick will have to deal with Burger, Smith, Spies et al so they will have to be good!

[dablk]

Yeah think Roberts will be in with a shout of going and also wont totally rule out Chris Paterson. He's played nearly everywhere in the backs and might be seen as a solid kicking option even if he features more in the midweek teams.

Paul O'Connely simply has to be captain as he has got to be the about the first name on the sheet with welsh boys Phillips, Williams and Byrne. Even BO'D might find hes getting preasured from Shanklin for his shirt.

Ahh i love Lions summers...my mate is even getting married on a Friday so we can all rise and all day BBQ for the Second Test!

[la gran siete]

i can well see Ben Foden make the squad. Ideal player for the hard grounds out there

[Clunk]

British and Irish Lions squad named:

Backs: L Byrne, R Kearney, S Williams, L Halfpenny, U Monye, L Fitzgerald, T Bowe, T Shanklin, J Roberts, B O'Driscoll, K Earls, R Flutey, R O'Gara, S Jones, M Phillips, H Ellis, T O'Leary.

Forwards: J Heaslip, A Powell, Wallace, S Ferris, A Quinlan, J Worsley, M Williams, AW Jones, P O'Connell (C), D O'Callaghan, S Shaw, N Hines, G Jenkins, A Jones, A Sheridan, P Vickery, E Murray, J Flannery, L Mears, M Rees


I make that 14 Irish, 13 Welsh, 8 English and 2 Scots.


Only 2 outside halves? Interesting.

[Mullet94]

Looks a decent squad pretty much what I was expecting though surprised that Armitage and Croft from England haven't been picked. They were probably two of the stand outs from England in the Six Nations.

[Clunk]

Originally Posted by Mullet94

Looks a decent squad pretty much what I was expecting though surprised that Armitage and Croft from England haven't been picked. They were probably two of the stand outs from England in the Six Nations.

I was surprised at Armitage's omission, given that a specialist fullback is critical - but then I realised that Halfpenny, Roberts and Earls are all competent fullbacks and also Bowe at a push - so not really that surprising given the mix. Croft was a 50/50 call, as was Ryan Jones I'd guess - but it looks like the Irish boys have edged them out. I think Worsley's a limited call but I suppose it's the Wasps familiarity that's got him the nod there.

Speaking of Halfpenny, I didn't expect both him and Shane Williams to make the tour - but the fact they both have does excite me somewhat. I seriously doubt they'd both feature together in a test, but it definitely suggests an attacking intent from Geech.

[ste v p]

Well how did I do?

Originally Posted by ste1000

Well it's just over two weeks until 'Geech picks his squad for the tour. There are some players that I think are dead certs for the tour but as always there are many players with their names in the hat. There are usually some wild card entries (think John Bentley '97) and some guys who have worked well with the coach in the past.

There are at least 3 players (maybe four) for each specialist position, hooker, scrum half, fly half. The touring party is likely to be 35 or 36 in total. I'm going for:

Key:
Underlined = Nailed on
Normal text = probables
Italic = possibles

Hookers (3): Jerry Flannery (Ire), Ross Ford (Sco) Lee Mears (Eng), Mathew Rees (Wal)

Props (5): Gethin Jenkins (Wal LH), Andrew Sheridan (Eng LH), Euan Murray (Sco TH), John Hayes (Ire TH), Phil Vickery (Eng LH/TH), Adam Jones (Wal)

Second Row(4): Paul O'Connell (Ire), Alun Wyn Jones (Wal), Donnacha O'Callaghan (sp?) (Ire), Simon Shaw (Eng) Nathan Hines (Sco)

Back Row (6): Tom Croft (Eng), David Wallace (Ire), Jamie Heaslip (Ire), Ryan Jones (Wal), Martyn Williams (Wal), Joe Worsley (Eng), Stephen Ferris (Ire), Alan Quinlan (Ire), Andy Powell (Wal)

Scrum Half (3): Mike Phillips (Wal), Mike Blair (Sco), Harry Ellis (Eng), Tomas O'Leary (Ire)

Fly Half (3): Stephen Jones (Wal), Ronan O'Gara (Ire), James Hook (Wal)

Centre (4): Riki Flutey (Eng/NZ IC) Brian O'Driscoll (Ire, Captain), Gordon D'Arcy (Ire), Tom Shanklin (Wal), Keith Earls (Ire), Jamie Roberts (Wal)

Wing (4): Shane Williams (Wal), Tommy Bowe (Ire), Leigh Halfpenny (Wal), Josh Lewsey (Eng), Ugo Monye (Eng), Luke Fitzgerald (Ire)

Full Back (3): Lee Byrne (Wal), Delon Armitage (Eng), Rob Kearney (Ire)

35 in Total - 11 Irish, 11 Welsh, 10 English, 3 Scottish.

Notable Absences (players in italics are the ones I think are closest to making the trip):
Forwards: Rory Best (Ire), Mathew Rees (Wal); Marcus Horan (Ire), Adam Jones (Wal); Ian Gough (Wal), Nathan Hines (Sco), Nick Kennedy (Eng); Tom Rees (Eng), James Haskell (Eng), Alasdair Strokosh (Sco), Andy Powell (Wal), Stephen Ferris (Ire), Dennis Leamy (Ire)

Backs: Peter Stringer (Ire), Dwayne Peel (Wal), Danny Care (Eng) Chris Cusiter (Sco); Toby Flood (Eng), Johnny Wilkinson (Eng), Danny Cipriani (Eng); Gavin Henson (Wal), Jamie Roberts (Wal), Mike Tindall (Eng) Max Evans (Sco); Paul Sackey (Eng), Mark Cueto (Eng), Luke Fitzgerald (Ire), Tom Evans (Sco); Chris Paterson (Sco), Ben Foden (Eng)

Discuss!

I got the captain wrong, and nine other people in that weren't included. Most of them I had down as possibles anyway but I had Tom Croft as a "nailed on". He's probably the omission I'm most disappointed about as I think he has a bright future and played well in the 6N.

Three Irish guys came out of nowhere (I didn't include them in my "notable absences) - Quinlan, O'Leary and Earls. Earls has been playing well but I thought O'Leary had a very average 6N and I haven't seen much better since.

Still, should be a good tour although I'm not sure there will be many English in the starting line up.

[la gran siete]

Too many Welsh players in te mix although one can see the Gatland /Edwards bias as there are too many Welsh players.S Williams has done nothing this 6n to merit selection and neither have A Jones ,A Powell or M Rees, all ordinary players in my view.
Oh well i expect this lot will get a drubbing

[Clunk]

Originally Posted by la gran siete

Too many Welsh players in te mix although one can see the Gatland /Edwards bias as there are too many Welsh players.S Williams has done nothing this 6n to merit selection and neither have A Jones ,A Powell or M Rees, all ordinary players in my view.
Oh well i expect this lot will get a drubbing

Okay who had 8.14am in the sweepstake?

Anyone?

[Clunk]

In all seriousness, I tend to agree about Powell and Rees which are marginal calls. Ryan Jones has been doing Powell's donkey work and has suffered for it. There are no outstanding hookers in the home nations at the moment with an all round game. Flannery is closest and should be the test starter. Rees has major problems in the lineout (although he seemed to have no problem hitting O'Connell every time in the Wales Ireland match...) but has been chosen for his physicality around the field I guess.

Shane was noted as being 50/50 due to form, but is a proven performer against South Africa in South Africa. Also, his 6N form was in part due to the way Wales played.

Adam Jones fully deserves his place - moreso than Vickery and Sheridan who have done little this year. At least Vickery covers both sides I suppose.

[la gran siete]

Originally Posted by Clunk

I

Adam Jones fully deserves his place - moreso than Vickery and Sheridan who have done little this year. .

No one with hair like that can possibly prop correctly

[Clunk]

Originally Posted by la gran siete

No one with hair like that can possibly prop correctly

I would imagine it affects the opposition loosehead and hooker's concentration more than it does his own.

[la gran siete]

i think not including tom Croft or Armitage is a huge error, particularly the former as he has that priceless ability pace and is exceptional in the lineout

[Mullet94]

Originally Posted by Clunk

I think Worsley's a limited call but I suppose it's the Wasps familiarity that's got him the nod there.

Best defensive back row forward in the Northern Hemisphere, no bias either but I'm a Wasps season ticket holder.

In all seriousness he is an immense tackler and defender, we will need his type of physicality if we are to beat the Springboks.

[Clunk]

Originally Posted by Mullet94

Best defensive back row forward in the Northern Hemisphere, no bias either but I'm a Wasps season ticket holder.

In all seriousness he is an immense tackler and defender, we will need his type of physicality if we are to beat the Springboks.

Oh aye - I'm not criticising the decision. He does what he does and is very good at it. He's not a fantastic all rounder or attacking option, but will defend all day if you need him to. As I said - it's a limited call, but Geech knows what he's getting. Depending on how things pan out, it could be a very shrewd choice - we'll see.

[ste v p]

Well some changes now...

Originally Posted by Clunk

British and Irish Lions squad named:

Backs: L Byrne, R Kearney, S Williams, L Halfpenny Injured for first 2 weeks: replacement ???, U Monye, L Fitzgerald, T Bowe, T Shanklin Injured: No replacement, J Roberts, B O'Driscoll, K Earls, R Flutey, R O'Gara, S Jones, M Phillips, H Ellis, T O'Leary Injured: replacement M Blair.

Forwards: J Heaslip, A Powell, Wallace, S Ferris, A Quinlan Banned: rep TBA, J Worsley, M Williams, AW Jones, P O'Connell (C), D O'Callaghan, S Shaw, N Hines, G Jenkins, A Jones, A Sheridan, P Vickery, E Murray, J Flannery, L Mears, M Rees


I make that 14 12 Irish, 13 11 Welsh, 8 English and 2 3 Scots.


Only 2 outside halves? Interesting.

[huwg]

Hook is called up, I've no idea who he is officially the replacement for (1/2p?), but they needed an extra 10.

[la gran siete]

good performance on wednesday but against poor opposition,After two matches my test side would be

Jenkins Mears,Vickery

Wyn jones O'connell

Croft Wallace
Heaslip
Cooper
Jones
Monye Roberts Odriscoll Bowe
Byrne

[huwg]

Originally Posted by la gran siete

good performance on wednesday but against poor opposition,After two matches my test side would be

Jenkins Mears,Vickery

Wyn jones O'connell

Croft Wallace
Heaslip
Cooper
Jones
Monye Roberts Odriscoll Bowe
Byrne

I think that's pretty close but I have doubts about Cooper; and Murray could put in a good performance tomorrow (but Vickery aint bad at all)
I think we have good options for the front 5, I'm not sure what our best back row is though.

Speaking of tomorrows game, I think the wings (1/2p & Shane) will have to go looking for the ball as we have a weakness in the centre.

[travid]

Powell has been shown up as a one trick pony with his "tackle me if you can" attitude.

South africans LOVE to knock players like that down and they usually do!

Ryan jones would be better, but, as a welshman, you may expect that one from me, however any player, who plays in that position internationally, IMHO, would be an improvement over AP.

Matthew Rees may be another doubt, but give him a little time and he MAY prove some doubters wrong.

[CLH]

I have an inkling Cooper will not make a start

[huwg]

Originally Posted by CLH

I have an inkling Cooper will not make a start

Certainly not before Peel