[RMCF]

I see that Dwain Chambers was both cheered and booed today before the race.

Personally I cannot believe that any true athletics fans could cheer him on, when he is a proven drugs cheat.

Personally I think that Britains rule of lifelong bans is correct. He should never be allowed to compete ever again, and I really hope that he loses his High Court case.

Your thoughts?

[Kazuya Mishima]

I think he should be barred from Olympics for life, as is the BOA rule.

I don't mind that Chambers competes in "bog-standard" athletics meets, but the Olympics are meant to represent an ideal in sport, and should not be tainted with proven drugs cheats.

But more importantly, I believe that the BOA's rules and regs must be observed, and should not be subject to legal challenge ("restriction of trade" - ********!). So whatever the BOA decide should stand. They should be allowed to choose which athletes represent UK in the Olympics - and they should have final say on the criteria for selection or otherwise.

[mrm3]

He has done his time.

[paul_doh]

Let him race i reckon, as the person before me said he has done his time.

[Wild Weasel]

Let him run. Athletics has no credibility left anyway.

[Curly99]

British athletics were happy to have him run for them when he had just finished his ban, so what's changed now, BA welcomes Christine Ohuruogu back after she also had an olympic ban.... wearing my cynical hat, is it because she is realisticly one of the only chances we have of a medal in the athletics?

Curly

[smashed]

He shouldnt be racing. He knew the rules and risks when he did it.
That said...most others are on drugs too (they just dont get caught). Dwain got a lot of hassle because he was happy to break the circle and say he isnt the only 1.
The tests cant keep up with the latest drugs..but then they never have done for 50 years. The BALCO story shows that the best got away with it despite rigorous testing. And the people winning now are no cleaner.
The 100m will be won in a time of 9.75 or quicker. Im sure its down to "new training techniques" ;o)

[Ian J]

Originally Posted by mrm3

He has done his time.

No he hasn't. His "time" is permanent and if we allow proven drugs cheats into the Olympics we might as well close them down.

Drugs has done enormous damage to athletics as a couple of decades ago the major athletics meets were watched on TV by millions but interest graually waned as the realisation dawned on us that the winner was the athlete with the best pharmacist. If the Olympics or World Championships are to retain any credibility they must exclude permanently any proven drugs cheats.

[DJT75]

All or nothing for me, if he's allowed to run in every other event including the "Olympic trials" then let him run in the Olympics.

If anything, an Olympic ban should be the same Worldwide over, not just a BOA ruling.

In a way he's actually setting an example of honesty & showing you can compete without cheating (just not the finals ). Real criminals get more than 2, 3 ,4 chances so I don't see any difference here..

[Steven]

I find the whole situation mildly amusing given that Chambers is currently running faster than all the other British contenders

And extreme but I suggest compulsory trackside testing for all if athletics wants to regain credibility.

[lowmans100]

The way I see it if the BOA wanted to stop athletes caught taking banned drugs in sports they would ban an athlete from competing in British events for life, that way an athlete could compete abroad but would not be able to compete in British Team qualifying events. By applying a 'time' ban, once you have served your time you start again with a clean slate.

There needs to be consistency, if all countries Athletics associations including the Olympic and World Association apply the same rules across the board then there would not be any argument. The rules for international participation must be the same for all countries.

My personal opinion is that he broke the rules and served his ban, that is now over and he starts again. If he is good enough and he is following the rules then he should be treated as any other athlete. Let's face it world class athletes give up their lives for their sport, they are not like us mortals that do not take the extra step when your body is screaming at you to stop.

[krish]

I support the BOA
- Chambers knew full well the punishment if caught when he first took performance enhancing drugs, this I think is the overwhelming legal argument against him

I heard Ed Moses on 5 Live's Sportsweek earlier and he said, though not supportive of Chambers, that he should not be prevented from earning a living ... but isn't that like saying you should be offered every job you apply for, and you should throw your toys out of the pram because one of those jobs' requirements was that the candidate had not committed a particular offence?

However, I'm more annoyed that Chambers has generated more outrage than this premiere league footballer currently doing porridge for violent crimes, one of which was committed in the workplace upon a colleague. And the FA literally lived up to their name here, doing sweet FA about this assault cheat (at least Chambers' cheating has not been a Health & Safety threat to his colleagues) ...

[youtube]G4BtZ0oWbYY[/youtube]
... and you just know this bastard will be back on the pitch earning £millions in a few months time
- but what do you expect when somebody like Sepp **atter thinks that slaves sign contracts and are paid £millions

[overkill]

Originally Posted by krish

I support the BOA
- Chambers knew full well the punishment if caught when he first took performance enhancing drugs, this I think is the overwhelming legal argument against him

I heard Ed Moses on 5 Live's Sportsweek earlier and he said, though not supportive of Chambers, that he should not be prevented from earning a living ... but isn't that like saying you should be offered every job you apply for, and you should throw your toys out of the pram because one of those jobs' requirements was that the candidate had not committed a particular offence?

However, I'm more annoyed that Chambers has generated more outrage than this premiere league footballer currently doing porridge for violent crimes, one of which was committed in the workplace upon a colleague. And the FA literally lived up to their name here, doing sweet FA about this assault cheat (at least Chambers' cheating has not been a Health & Safety threat to his colleagues) ...... and you just know this bastard will be back on the pitch earning £millions in a few months time
- but what do you expect when somebody like Sepp **atter thinks that slaves sign contracts and are paid £millions

Totally agree with that.

IanJ also nicely summed up the position. If you cheat and are allowed back into a sport what does that say about the sport? In particular one that has already taken such huge credibility hits?

The ban should be for life - no let up.

As Krish says, in the 'real World' of work if you commit a transgression within your field which is either a stipulated offence, or a clearly stated rule which means that you will not be employed within that field again, then that's what happens. You don't get to work in that field again.

Why on Earth sports people think they should be beyond the law/the rules staggers me.

[jordandy512]

He couldn't compete while he was cheating so what is the point now. Ban him for life, he has got the physique he has from cheating so in my eyes he is still cheating.

[neilios]

But the point is its more than just the olympics though, sports stars from a multitude of sports are taking these drugs ,chambers is bieng made a pariah by those in the media ,and by hypocritical team members .

[overkill]

Originally Posted by neilios

But the point is its more than just the olympics though, sports stars from a multitude of sports are taking these drugs ,chambers is bieng made a pariah by those in the media ,and by hypocritical team members .

Agreed, but that still doesn't excuse what he did. I too would love to see every cheating bastard nailed to the wall, in particular in football where they are ruining it, but until they do, it's up to at least the BOA to uphold their own rules with regards doping.

[The Dude]

How many people posting in this thread currently have, or have ever had, penalty points on their driving licence?


Dwain Chambers has cheated, has been caught cheating, and served his punishment.

If athletes really are to be treated the same as the rest of us, then his punishment is over.
He should be treated the same as any other competitor, and any other member of the public, ie 'innocent until proven guilty'.

The BOA stance is more to do with gesture politics than sporting ethics, and as someone has already pointed out is laughable hypocrisy anyway.

[johnscarlet]

But isn't part of the punishment a lifetime ban from competing in the Olympics ? So he won't have completed any punishment , has not served the time . He is free to compete , But not in the Games

[Jeff]

If life doesn't really mean life for murder, why should a lifetime ban in sports mean life?

[johnscarlet]

Originally Posted by Jeff

If life doesn't really mean life for murder, why should a lifetime ban in sports mean life?

Because thats what the relevent governing body choose it to mean . If the government decide that life does not mean life. Then thats their lookout. The BOA or UKA or whoever have decided that Lifetime should mean Lifetime andthats their decision . It was in place before he cheated, it was in place whilst he cheated and it was in place when he got caught .Tough **** Dwain

[overkill]

Originally Posted by johnscarlet

Because thats what the relevent governing body choose it to mean . If the government decide that life does not mean life. Then thats their lookout. The BOA or UKA or whoever have decided that Lifetime should mean Lifetime andthats their decision . It was in place before he cheated, it was in place whilst he cheated and it was in place when he got caught .Tough **** Dwain

Exactly John. It seems simple enough to grasp. A life ban, as according to BOA rules, is what was imposed for being caught cheating, and that's what should stand.

Comparing one set of rules with another is meaningless as the context is entirely different.

[mrtbag]

Originally Posted by Ian J

No he hasn't. His "time" is permanent and if we allow proven drugs cheats into the Olympics we might as well close them down.

That's the point though Ian. It's only the GB team who ban them, so there will still be plenty of ex drug cheats on show in China, with or without Dwaine.

I don't know the solution, but think there has to be a rule for all Athletes, not just from individual nations. This has to be fougfht at a world level, not just at country level.

[overkill]

Originally Posted by mrtbag

That's the point though Ian. It's only the GB team who ban them, so there will still be plenty of ex drug cheats on show in China, with or without Dwaine.

I don't know the solution, but think there has to be a rule for all Athletes, not just from individual nations. This has to be fougfht at a world level, not just at country level.

Agree totally, but an example needs to be set by someone. I'd rather we won nothing, than won by cheating.

We may have lost some of our British traits, largely thanks to Americanisation, but our sense of 'fair play' is still out there somewhere.

[Reepicheep]

I think he should not be allowed to go to the Olympics.

He took a banned substance to enhance his performance - i.e. He Cheated!
That enhancement will continue to be effective in his current and future performances, so even though he has 'served his time' he will continue to get the benefits of his cheating and so should not be allowed to compete again - at any level!

You can argue about other atheletes who may or may not be taking perfomance enhancing drugs and not been caught (yet), but that is a different issue - if someone is caught they need to be punished and banned from the sport for life. We owe this to the genuine athletes who are clean and to send a message to those atheletes that are cheating or who may cheat in the future that it is not accepatable.

[Crocodile JD]

Athletics is a joke. Too many of them are so far up themselves it makes me sick. I can't even watch the pre madonna's now strutting and clucking around as they do. They aren't doing it for country anyway, they are doing it for themselves. Team GB is just a ticket that's all. They virtually say as much when you hear them in interviews. Let them do what the hell they like for me.

Croc

[deanym]

I don't particularly mind what happens regarding Dwaine Dibley so long as the BOA maintain consistency in their decisions.

[mason]

Originally Posted by Ian J

No he hasn't. His "time" is permanent and if we allow proven drugs cheats into the Olympics we might as well close them down.

Drugs has done enormous damage to athletics as a couple of decades ago the major athletics meets were watched on TV by millions but interest graually waned as the realisation dawned on us that the winner was the athlete with the best pharmacist. If the Olympics or World Championships are to retain any credibility they must exclude permanently any proven drugs cheats.

agreed... a permanant ban should be just that.

he chose to take the risk of a ban so he should take it like a man and stop trying to fight the system he did indeed go against and cheat using drugs

how would it look to young kids who are trying to make it in any sport if someone can take drugs... be banned for a while... then be allowed to race again??

[durera]

Originally Posted by overkill

Agree totally, but an example needs to be set by someone. I'd rather we won nothing [fairly], than won nothing by cheating.

We may have lost some of our British traits, largely thanks to Americanisation, but our sense of 'fair play' is still out there somewhere.

Corrected for you I don't really have much interest in althletics but I don't recall Chambers winning much, so it's quite surprising he was using drugs, obviously he wasn't using the right ones.

If the rules say athletes caught using drugs can't compete in the Olympics and that rule is applied to all athletes then all credit to whoever made that call, but if this rule is being applied selectively then it's just a PR stunt taking advantage of media interest in the case.

Have other drugs cheats been allowed to compete in the Olympics before for GB? If "yes" then I'm on Dwayne's side and think he's doing the right thing standing up for himself, I hate it when authorities decide to "make an example" of someone, rules should be applied equally to everyone. If "no" then he should get shut up and be grateful that he can still compete at other levels.

[Steven]

Originally Posted by overkill

Agreed, but that still doesn't excuse what he did. I too would love to see every cheating bastard nailed to the wall, in particular in football where they are ruining it, but until they do, it's up to at least the BOA to uphold their own rules with regards doping.

May I point out during Euro 2008 not a single drugs test was positive

I think credit should be given where it is due. Athletics has a lot to learn

[overkill]

Originally Posted by LFC_SL

May I point out during Euro 2008 not a single drugs test was positive

I think credit should be given where it is due. Athletics has a lot to learn

I wasn't referring to drugs. Footballers rarely get caught taking steroids, or other performance enhancers. Whether that's because they are genuinely 'clean' or, as was found with some US sports 'superstar's, they are so rich they can afford the very best in masking techniques, is open to question.

Since footballers cheat on the pitch, game in game out to gain an advantage, I hardly think they can teach anyone, anything.

Unless of course it's how to teach Olympic swimmers how to dive.............

Cheating to gain an advantage over your opponents is wrong, whether it's taking performance enhancing drugs or indulging in oscar winning performances to earn free kicks, penalties, or worse, get other players booked or sent off.