[bitofatit]

I may have said this before but I'll say it again, What a game destroyer this stpuid, stupid rule is about sending somone off if they commit a foul in the box and they were the last man, or stop a chance on goal, or whatever the rule is.
Example the Man U v Spurs game just now. 70 mins gone 1-1 intresting game - completly ruined, following the penaty award, when the offending player is went off. It seems to me like a double punishment. On top of that the game becomes totaly one sided, a goal is usually scored from the spot and the game is / can be over a s a result. I feel robbed.

Why not, make the decison on whether to red or yellow card the player AFTER the spot kick is taken? In this way Spurs' keeper (in this example) could have allowed for the possibilty of standing to one side and allowing UTD to score and the game proceeds with 11 v 11. Obviously, if the keeper decides to and actually effects a save then the ref produces a red card and the original offender leaves the field. In this way it just seems fairer to me. If a save is made, the team who were wronged either get a penalty goal or a man sent off but not both. What do you think? -
BoaT
P.S I feel less agravated by this decison when applied outside of the box!

[mooperman]

it was a blatent handbull imo.... You try your own luck when you go for something like that, hows about he didnt push the ball away with his hand and rooney fluff's it and then he stays on.... its one of the rules i agree with i'm afraid, if your stupid enough to try stuff like this in the penalty area then

[bitofatit]

I have to agree - blatent handball. But I fancy a quick moment of maddness that spoilt things for not just him but all the fans from his team, the neutrals (of which I am one - TBH - I can't stand either team), but as apectacle the game was dead from that moment.

Imagine you supported Spurs and this happened in the frist minute of the game?!! What a let down to the fans. So why does the penalty need to be so harsh - break someones leg in a horresdous off the ball incident and the worst you get is a red card. So why the doubke punishment this way?

[sdb123]

Your 'last man' argument falls down here though as it wasn't a foul against a player, the Spurs player deliberately handballed (i.e. cheated) in the box which is a straight red card offence.

[bitofatit]

Semantics M8 surely? Irrespective of whatever rule, this is a double wammie and spoils it for the fans, and kills the game.
My point stands ...doesn't it? If following this incident the ref waits to see if a goal is scored from the spot - if yes, yellow - if not red; voila, logical and fair result all round?

[Spacecat]

I say yellow card and a penalty , unless the tackle/foul is dangerous and therefore a straight red.

if he is already on a yellow he gets a red and goes.

[Marc]

why didn't he just let rooney get the ball and score? then the score would have been the same yet they would have had 11 men, it was completely his own fault for trying to cheat and a straight red was the only option. The ref can't base his disciplinary decisions based on whether a goal was scored from the spot or not, absolutely ridiculous!

[Woodywizz]

I agree Marc - ridiculous proposal.

These are professional footballers, they know the rules. he blatantly handballed and blatantly denied Rooney a goal-scoring opportunity.

Sorry if that ruined the match for you, but those are the rules I'm afraid. If Utd had been say 3 up at half-time then maybe we could have a rule change stipulating that we lose 2 players for the second half....just to keep it interesting for the other team's supporters

[Marc]

i will say that i think the rules should be less harsh for goalkeepers, i don't think they should get a straight red for bringing down a striker, as they don't really have a choice about being the last man, and by nature they're throwing their whole body at the ball so are more likely to catch a leg. Does seem harsh to give away a penalty and send off the keeper, but saying that, i think there have been a number of occasions where this has happened and the substitute keeper has saved the resulting penalty, so maybe it evens itself out!

[thfccambs]

Definitely a penalty without a shadow of doubt, do think Dawson was very unlucky to go, the rules do say he should of but my only complaint is the rules are hardly ever followed on this one. Twice this season we have got penalties where keane has been taken out by last defender and won a penalty for the defender to stay on, a little consistency wouldn't go a miss.

[Simon_143]

Was a penalty but many Ref's would have left it at that, so he was unlucky to be sent off as well. To be fair to Spurs they still gave it a good go after that and still made a few chances. The scoreline flattered Man Utd some what.

[bitofatit]

Originally Posted by woodywizz

I agree Marc - ridiculous proposal.

These are professional footballers, they know the rules. he blatantly handballed and blatantly denied Rooney a goal-scoring opportunity.

Sorry if that ruined the match for you, but those are the rules I'm afraid. If Utd had been say 3 up at half-time then maybe we could have a rule change stipulating that we lose 2 players for the second half....just to keep it interesting for the other team's supporters

Ha Ha, very drole. Wonder if you might have had the same view if it was Utd going down to 10 men? TBH, I'm interesed in fairness and to me this is not fair - the punishment doesn't fit the crime. I re-iterate I think the defender had a moment of madness. Difficult in the heat of the moment to think this trough and even knowing the rules it was probably instinctive. But I feel like Canute, I flogging a dead horse here and I can smell cakes burning.
Here resteth the case for the "defence"
Regards BoaT
And another thing...what is the point tell me...no better not!

[Abbeygoo]

I always think its strange when someone quotes that the player should be sent off for denying the opposition a goal scoring opportunity ....... hmmm, he has just given them a penalty, so he has not denied them an opportunity he has probably given them a better one .....

[overkill]

Originally Posted by Marc

why didn't he just let rooney get the ball and score? then the score would have been the same yet they would have had 11 men, it was completely his own fault for trying to cheat and a straight red was the only option. The ref can't base his disciplinary decisions based on whether a goal was scored from the spot or not, absolutely ridiculous!

Exactly.

This is hardly a 'new rule' as I can remember players being sent off in the 70's for deliberate handball, and if you are dumb enough to do it in the penalty area, well, tough I'm afraid.

[bitofatit]

Originally Posted by Abbeygoo

I always think its strange when someone quotes that the player should be sent off for denying the opposition a goal scoring opportunity ....... hmmm, he has just given them a penalty, so he has not denied them an opportunity he has probably given them a better one .....

good point .. wish I'd thought of that Doh!

[Abbeygoo]

Originally Posted by bitofatit

good point .. wish I'd thought of that Doh!

Cheers. That probably applies more outside the box where someone is brought down where they would have been through on goal and you end up with a crappy free kick .... Holland v England anyone ... do I not like that! Koeman got a yellow for that

[Marc]

i don't think a penalty was better than the chance rooney had, that had goal written all over it.

[thfccambs]

Originally Posted by Abbeygoo

.... Holland v England anyone ... do I not like that! Koeman got a yellow for that

Don't mention the goal he scored 5 minutes later.

[overkill]

Originally Posted by hunts1uk

Don't mention the goal he scored 5 minutes later.

Yes, that brings back mixed memories. On the one hand sickened by some shocking refereeing, on the other, as the idiot himself said, 'you've just cost me my job', and good riddance!