[rio1981]

I love the FA Cup - my team hasn't won it for what now is the best part of three decades but that still doesn't stop me believing, there's still something special about it for me.

But do others feel the same, and what about the players? I lost a bit of respect for Dave Kitson when I read this but is this more of where our current game - sadly - stands, than a player's own belief? Or does he just want his boyhood club to lift the cup instead of his current employers?!

"We are not going to win the FA Cup and I do not care less about it, to be honest," said the 27-year-old.

"I care about staying in the Premier League, as does everybody at this club. Our league status is not protected by winning the FA Cup - simple as that."

This might make "economic sense" but is this really what our game has become? I wonder what Kitson would think if Reading got to the final?

[sdb123]

Reminds me of when Manure pulled out of the FA Cup to concentrate on the World Club Championship.

[StevoAVFC]

I love the FA Cup and Carling Cup, ive hated it from my teams point of view for many years now though because we just keep getting drawn against Man Utd or Chelsea. But if we was to beat them in the cup oh how sweet it would be if we won.

Villa vs Man Utd (Reserves?) Saturday BBC1

I love how the top 4 dont take things seriously and then when they lose because of the reserves playing deep down the manager is kicking himself.

I agree about Dave Kitson, he should just go to spurs or retire with that attitude. He said after the spurs reading game then 6-4 loss one, he got his 2 goals so i did my part. Sounds like a great team player.

[thfccambs]

I agree about Dave Kitson, he should just go to spurs or retire with that attitude. He said after the spurs reading game then 6-4 loss one, he got his 2 goals so i did my part. Sounds like a great team player.

Think you need to listen again mate as that's not what he said at all.

I'd welcome him at WHL any day also.

Looking forward to Saturday, can't beat the FA cup.
Well at least some of us love it.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/foot...ng/7168675.stm

Think the likes of these teams are more worried about premiership survival, and we do play far to many games over this period of the season.

[sdb123]

Originally Posted by StevoAVFC

I love how the top 4 dont take things seriously and then when they lose because of the reserves playing deep down the manager is kicking himself.

Lots of labels can be levelled against Chelsea however we always put out a decent side in the cup competitions.

[thfccambs]

Originally Posted by sdb123

Reminds me of when Manure pulled out of the FA Cup to concentrate on the World Club Championship.

...................and lost i do believe,

[overkill]

Originally Posted by rio1981

I love the FA Cup - my team hasn't won it for what now is the best part of three decades but that still doesn't stop me believing, there's still something special about it for me.

But do others feel the same, and what about the players? I lost a bit of respect for Dave Kitson when I read this but is this more of where our current game - sadly - stands, than a player's own belief? Or does he just want his boyhood club to lift the cup instead of his current employers?!

"We are not going to win the FA Cup and I do not care less about it, to be honest," said the 27-year-old.

"I care about staying in the Premier League, as does everybody at this club. Our league status is not protected by winning the FA Cup - simple as that."

This might make "economic sense" but is this really what our game has become? I wonder what Kitson would think if Reading got to the final?

Agree totally. He went right down in my estimation after those comments. But then so did Viv Anderson after his comments last night about how clubs 'have to look to move with the times' when asked about Everton leaving Liverpool for that dump Kirby. Why? Everton aren't going to compete with the big four even if they move to Mars, so why leave the city and into a war zone, against the wishes of the local residents, just to end up like Sunderland et al? Yeah, nice new stadia, but up **** creek for years as the costs spiral and the team is starved of funds.

Kitsons comments just echo what I was saying earlier on this season. That anyone outside the top four has such limited ambitions it's scary, and that the only thing that anyone cares about in football these days is dough. From top to bottom.

We are just kidding ourselves that the players have any love for the game at all anymore. Sod wearing football kits, they should all be kitted out in army fatigues with 'mercenary' painted across the front in big white letters.

And yes, they did care once.

[thfccambs]

Originally Posted by sdb123

Lots of labels can be levelled against Chelsea however we always put out a decent side in the cup competitions.

Yep agree there they do, does **** me of though when some teams play weakened sides. Especially if we then lose to them.

[rio1981]

It's getting such a tired cliche now but it really isn't a "game" to be enjoyed anymore, it's a business to be endured and this kind of thing doesn't help.

So Kitson thinks it's more romantic to languish in the middle of the league than to go on a cup run, maybe draw a big side at home and knock them out, and possibly make a final? Is it any wonder that the so-called "big four" (incidentally does this now include Manchester City after last night's results? Like it does...) have a monopoly on all competitions including cups where this kind of attitude is reflected by the players themselves?

What makes me mad is that you could take Kitson's comments and apply them to the Premier League; "well Dave, you're never going to win the league either, so why are you bothering playing this game at all?"...

If it's not my own beloved West Ham I truly do hope it's not one of the "big four" that win it, and for the same token it's a side that takes the competition seriously from the off.

[Trist]

I agree with you Rio.

Although I can barely remember it (only being 10 at the time) watching Palace beat Liverpool 4-3 in the 1990 FA Cup Semi-Final, then the 3-3 final against Man Utd will always be up there as probably my two favourite Palace games.

In fact thinking about it... playoff finals, and other FA Cup or League Cup scalps... all of my favourite games have pretty much been cup games.*

*Then again, it's not as if Palace going to be topping the Premiership anytime soon so cup game victories will probably always be the biggest we're ever to likely achieve.

I think for most fans the FA Cup will always hold something special purely because its their only real chance to get one over on the big boys. Over the course of a season the big guns are likely to alway come out top (more so with the money spread being the ways it is) but with cup games you've always got a chance on the day.

[overkill]

Originally Posted by rio1981

It's getting such a tired cliche now but it really isn't a "game" to be enjoyed anymore, it's a business to be endured and this kind of thing doesn't help.

So Kitson thinks it's more romantic to languish in the middle of the league than to go on a cup run, maybe draw a big side at home and knock them out, and possibly make a final? Is it any wonder that the so-called "big four" (incidentally does this now include Manchester City after last night's results? Like it does...) have a monopoly on all competitions including cups where this kind of attitude is reflected by the players themselves?

What makes me mad is that you could take Kitson's comments and apply them to the Premier League; "well Dave, you're never going to win the league either, so why are you bothering playing this game at all?"...

If it's not my own beloved West Ham I truly do hope it's not one of the "big four" that win it, and for the same token it's a side that takes the competition seriously from the off.

Spot on Rio. I support a big four side, and yet even I'm sick of them grabbing all the trophies. Which is due in no small part due to the depressingly singular mentality of the teams that once would have made, at the very least, their lives difficult in the process.

The game, as I've been saying for a long while, is just that - to be endured, not enjoyed. Yet we have Sir phallix moaning about the lack of atmosphere at games! What does he expect when all the modern fan has been led to expect from the game is their team winning?

Good football? Atmosphere? Pursuit of trophies outside the top four? What's that got to do with it anymore?!

They want their cake and to eat it.

[rio1981]

I think football is well on it's way to imploding, really.

Surely it won't be long before the kids - that's the ones who can't actually afford to get to games - cite the FA Cup as not being particularly important either, and that's the real killer.

Some of my favourite games of all time have been in the FA Cup - and two of them where I was present at the time were both defeats, once at home to 10-man Arsenal in a Quarter-Final Replay when we got done on penalties (late 90's), and the other on a Sunday afternoon being turned over 3-2 at home by Spurs (possibly late 90's, early 00's) - both unbelievable atmospheres and rarely replicated for league games.

So maybe those of us that are up for the cup should keep this thread alive, out of sheer principle alone! I'd love to see us do it if I were a betting man the money would be going on our opponents on Saturday, Man City

[city fan]

Originally Posted by rio1981

So maybe those of us that are up for the cup should keep this thread alive, out of sheer principle alone! I'd love to see us do it if I were a betting man the money would be going on our opponents on Saturday, Man City

Cheers Rio. It's a pity that we weren't kept apart. It would be so good for the game if one of the "big four" did not win it this season.

Our last genuine cup win was 1976, yes 31 years . I think genuine fans are always up for the cup, the atmosphere can be something special.

If we do get past you it will then depend on the draw, and if we can strengthen our squad a little. Heres hoping......

[overkill]

Originally Posted by rio1981

I think football is well on it's way to imploding, really.

Surely it won't be long before the kids - that's the ones who can't actually afford to get to games - cite the FA Cup as not being particularly important either, and that's the real killer.

Some of my favourite games of all time have been in the FA Cup - and two of them where I was present at the time were both defeats, once at home to 10-man Arsenal in a Quarter-Final Replay when we got done on penalties (late 90's), and the other on a Sunday afternoon being turned over 3-2 at home by Spurs (possibly late 90's, early 00's) - both unbelievable atmospheres and rarely replicated for league games.

So maybe those of us that are up for the cup should keep this thread alive, out of sheer principle alone! I'd love to see us do it if I were a betting man the money would be going on our opponents on Saturday, Man City

Same here. FA cup matches produced such pulsating matches (in the days when everyone dropped star players for league games before key FA cup ties not the other way around!) that they stuck in the mind. I can barely remember a handful of league games over the years, but the Q/F vs Southampton in 1979, the 3rd and 4th games of that epic five game battle against Wednesday in the same year, obviously the cup final in 79', the S/F against Spurs that we lost in 91', the 2nd, 3rd and 4th S/F games against Liverpool in 1980, the S/F v Utd in 99' the 5th rd game against them in 88', the final against Chelsea (two classic goals in a tough derby), and so many more. At the same time the LC has provided some classic games to. The epic game against Man City in 1978 is still down as one of the great encounters between the two sides in the 70's, and of course the S/F epics against Spurs at White Hart Lane in 87', the games on which modern Arsenal was really built (good football, but still with the grit of old Arsenal sides).

Ah, them's were the days!

[JohnG]

Who can forget the good old days of the FA Cup when my local team Mansfield Town beat West Ham 3-0 in 1969 In those days you had the "giant killers" and you can rest assured that the giants they beat put out a full side. West Ham had all of their stars out that night. I doubt we'll ever see those days again sadly.

[overkill]

Originally Posted by JohnG

Who can forget the good old days of the FA Cup when my local team Mansfield Town beat West Ham 3-0 in 1969 In those days you had the "giant killers" and you can rest assured that the giants they beat put out a full side. West Ham had all of their stars out that night. I doubt we'll ever see those days again sadly.

Afraid so John. It seems like only yesterday that Arsenal were fined for putting out a weakened team in the NL derby (1993!) with the cup final coming up. I cannot, even for that once critical date in the Worlds footballing calender, see Arsenal doing that today.

[rio1981]

Originally Posted by JohnG

Who can forget the good old days of the FA Cup when my local team Mansfield Town beat West Ham 3-0 in 1969 In those days you had the "giant killers" and you can rest assured that the giants they beat put out a full side. West Ham had all of their stars out that night. I doubt we'll ever see those days again sadly.

I can't recall that one John, although I will say that with the amount of batterings we've had from lower league opposition over the years they all tend to merge into the same nightmare to be honest!

Overkill, you recounting some Arsenal cup games reminds me of the game that just wouldn't end - it must have been early 90's against Leeds, how many replays did that go to?

Can't you just imagine the fuss that the players and managers would kick up now if they went to that amount of replays now?

[JohnG]

That West Ham team that lost to the Stags had all the World Cup 1966 stars in and they all played as far as I can remember. It was a great excitement for everyone in the town to have such stars visit.... and then to thrash them - people still talk about that game even now

[overkill]

Originally Posted by rio1981

I can't recall that one John, although I will say that with the amount of batterings we've had from lower league opposition over the years they all tend to merge into the same nightmare to be honest!

Overkill, you recounting some Arsenal cup games reminds me of the game that just wouldn't end - it must have been early 90's against Leeds, how many replays did that go to?

Can't you just imagine the fuss that the players and managers would kick up now if they went to that amount of replays now?

Oh that was a mere four games (three replays) in 1991. Must be something about Yorkshire clubs...........

I can indeed imagine the sort of whining we'd hear if two teams (from any division nowadays!) had to go to more than one replay. Kitson, not content with dissing the FA cup was also on the old 'we're all tired from playing too much football over the xmas period' track. I'll tell you what fella's, you can all change places with some coal miners, hospital staff, or policemen for a month and see which of you ends up more tired?

Something tells me it won't be those taking a break from real jobs..............

Rio, he's not winding you up. Mansfield did indeed stuff West Ham 3-0 in the FA cup in 1969. There is somewhere, much to West Ham fans embarrassment, a famous picture of the score being flashed up on the electronic billboard in Leicester Square that evening.

However, I can't say too much, as a certain team from Wiltshire beat us 3-1 in the FLC final that season!

[featherhall]

I couldn't believe the comments (until I heard for myself on Sky Sports News). I think it is a disgraceful thing to come out with, especially given the amount of supporters that are handing over their hard earned.

Steve Coppell came out with similar remarks as well, which is even more disturbing given that he is a manager.

The problem is that the FA Cup is realistically going to go in the cabinet of either Man Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal. The competition element seems to be going the way of our game up here in Scotland (i.e. none).
SKY TV's money has no doubt been very good for the game in England but at what cost ?
It's one thing fans not believing they have a chance of winning silverware, but when players and managers dont believe it there is some serious rot setting in.

For what it is worth, I love watching the FA Cup, and at least there is the odd upset in the 3rd and 4th rounds, but these are becoming rarer and rarer. If Man Utd send out a weakened side then they should be fined to the hilt. Spectators pay good money to see their strongest side play, and the fine history that this cup has should demand that the best players compete. I would give my right arm to win that trophy and walk onto the Wembley pitch in May.

I'm putting some money on a dark horse though - Man City

[Miyazaki]

Call me a partisan, but I think Villa have a very good chance on saturday.

We're going to lose 4-0 now aren't we?

[StevoAVFC]

Originally Posted by Games Guru

Call me a partisan, but I think Villa have a very good chance on saturday.

We're going to lose 4-0 now aren't we?

Its going to be a great game, when we are on form we can beat anyone our games against Chelsea and Arsenal (2nd half) just prove that.

But if our defense do what they did against Man Utd last time we played them then i could see them putting a few past us. It will come down to how many we put past them

[Black-Adder]

Originally Posted by StevoAVFC

Its going to be a great game, when we are on form we can beat anyone our games against Chelsea and Arsenal (2nd half) just prove that.

But if our defense do what they did against Man Utd last time we played them then i could see them putting a few past us. It will come down to how many we put past them

Perhaps you can have a double celebration when we stuff your local opposition tomorrow at the mighty Galpharm!

[overkill]

Originally Posted by featherhall

I couldn't believe the comments (until I heard for myself on Sky Sports News). I think it is a disgraceful thing to come out with, especially given the amount of supporters that are handing over their hard earned.

Steve Coppell came out with similar remarks as well, which is even more disturbing given that he is a manager.

The problem is that the FA Cup is realistically going to go in the cabinet of either Man Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal. The competition element seems to be going the way of our game up here in Scotland (i.e. none).
SKY TV's money has no doubt been very good for the game in England but at what cost ?
It's one thing fans not believing they have a chance of winning silverware, but when players and managers dont believe it there is some serious rot setting in.

For what it is worth, I love watching the FA Cup, and at least there is the odd upset in the 3rd and 4th rounds, but these are becoming rarer and rarer. If Man Utd send out a weakened side then they should be fined to the hilt. Spectators pay good money to see their strongest side play, and the fine history that this cup has should demand that the best players compete. I would give my right arm to win that trophy and walk onto the Wembley pitch in May.

I'm putting some money on a dark horse though - Man City

Steve Coppells not the only one. Big Sam has said as much when he was at Bolton, and the big four show their contempt for the competition year in year out by fielding weakened sides in, well, every round now bar the final. In a way you can allow for them (but not excuse them) doing that as we are constantly spun that they have '22 World class players' but it's when the mid table and lower Prem sides and even more bizzare, the Championship sides, play weakened sides you have to wonder just where the game is going.

It seems the days of a Sunderland, Southampton or a Wimbledon wanting to put themselves right at the front of the Worlds attention, never mind the footballing publics, has gone.

This is what I mean by a total lack of ambition. Who cares if you live your whole playing career grubbing around in the lower reaches of the prem, with maybe one good season in the top 6, if you can spend just 90 minutes with the whole footballing world (and beyond) having their eyes on you? Or even better, watching you run around Wembley carrying the FA cup.................

[west dan]

To think that over the past 5-6 seasons its always been 1 of the so called big 4 who have won the cup is a joke.

My team West Ham almost broke that a couple of seasons ago but for a "fluke" of a goal by Gerrard! Still cant bring myself to watch any of that game, have only seen the goal once and that was at the Millenium.

Just hope this year someone else does win it as like last year's final between Chelsea+Man Utd it was a total let down.

[overkill]

Originally Posted by west dan

To think that over the past 5-6 seasons its always been 1 of the so called big 4 who have won the cup is a joke.

My team West Ham almost broke that a couple of seasons ago but for a "fluke" of a goal by Gerrard! Still cant bring myself to watch any of that game, have only seen the goal once and that was at the Millenium.

Just hope this year someone else does win it as like last year's final between Chelsea+Man Utd it was a total let down.

The statistics are actually much more depressing than that. Since 1988 no club outside what are the 'traditional' big five (ie Arsenal, Spurs, Man Utd, Liverpool and Everton) have won the cup bar Chelsea, and that is a record. No true underdog has won the cup since 1988 either, as Everton hardly count as 'underdogs' having been FLC as recently as 1987, and that was their 9th championship.

So, we have gone twenty years without seeing an underdog win the FA cup. Any bets on it happening this year with prats like Kitson representing the 'outsiders'?

I think not.

[StevoAVFC]

Originally Posted by PeBe

Perhaps you can have a double celebration when we stuff your local opposition tomorrow at the mighty Galpharm!

Just the 1 celebration

[overkill]

Well, to no surprise at all, the usual suspects played second string teams and lost. Bolton, by way of no change at all played reserves and were dumped out at home by Sheff Utd. What was the point of that? Now Bolton are committed to a dreary relegation fight, and the depressingly crap UEFA cup games. Ooooooh wow! If nothing proves that money is king and football and excitement are secondary concerns Boltons attitude did. Everton also showed their contempt for the competition as did Birmingham.

What was perhaps even more annoying was the pathetic excuse being offered up after they were beaten.

Question: is any Evertonian happy that they are out of that 'worthless competition' at the hands of Oldham?

It's after results like that, and selections like that, that you ask yourself whether or not the fans feelings count one jot.

Silly me, of course not........

[RMCF]

I think the FA Cup is definitely losing its appeal for the EPL teams.

As some said, they really care more about surviving in the Premiership now cos thats where the money is. I posted before that I find it sad that this is the extent of a lot of fairly big teams expectations now. They know from Day 1 that they aren't going to win it, and all they want is to continue to be in it every year due to the huge revenue this brings in.

I think the Championship teams still love the chance to topple an EPL team, and this has been very evident this year. Perhaps it just shows how bad the EPL is outside of the Top 4, with many EPL teams losing despite fielding good sides.

I know some will accuse me of bashing English football again with this reply, but that guy in the Derby team at centre half (his name currently escapes me - Moore?). How he is earning a living from football baffles me.

[rio1981]

I think apathy was well reflected in the attendances for some of the games, notably Blackburn where there was about 14,000 (of which Coventry accounted for about 3,000-4,000?), and Sunderland that mustered 20,000.

Unsurprising that both teams put in particularly insipid performances and got tonked at home.