Strachan predicts European SL

[overkill]

As rumours swirl about a grim future for football, Gordon Strachan wades in with his view about footballs 'golden path'. In his view, an Orwellian one frankly, the top clubs are edging closer to doing what many have predicted for some time. In other words they are planning to give FIFA/UEFA the heave ho and form their own European Super leauge.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/7090961.stm

However, in a piece of hilarious over optimism Strachan deludes himself that Celtic/Rangers will be part of it. No chance. He also talks of '60 clubs'. Again, hilarious. Why would the 'footballing elite' want to saddle themselves with a leauge that unwieldy? At that size the revenue cake would be much smaller, and with Europes 'top 60' no end of squabbling would break out if some thought others were getting more than them. These are after all the nastiest, greediest, bunch of cynics in charge these days (and on the pitch) that the game has ever seen.

No, Strachan on that account is wrong. We can see a super leauge in outline all right, but it's liable to be much smaller. It will include the Spanish giants (Real, Barca) the Italian giants (AC, Inter and Juve) the English big four, Bayern, Werder Bremen (maybe Hamburg?) and possibly, but only possibly, Ajax and PSV. Everyone else will be given a swift two fingers.

Add in the possibility (it's amazing how many people who I've spoken to who believe this is on the cards) of 'prestige games' being played in Asia and the US, and the game will finally cut loose from the ties of the past.

And leave those of us who love football for football sake, behind. For good.

[DJT75]

Optimism indeed.

I personally don't think a European League would generate more cash for the "top 4" than the Premier League & Champions League together currently do anyway so why would they even want to consider it?

Many players are bored with the current CL format & would far rather a straight knock-out system (as would I) People don't actually like travelling every week - they have homes/families.

Can't think of a single reason why a European League would be better than the individual domestic leagues we currently have. It would devalue them, kill the game domestically & remove the European tournaments altogether.

Surely no-one is stupid enough to actually want this? The money would disappear from the sport overnight & so would the interest.

[RMCF]

I hope you are wrong overkill, but I think that some form of it will happen over the coming years.

After all, the CL is basically a Euro league that was set up to keep the G14 happy, as they were threatening to break away anyway.

But as with greedy bastards in any industry or business, they always want more. They are not happy with the current format and think there is too many teams in it (ie the money has to be divided out too much).

UEFA will pander to them and give them what they want for fear of the breakaway, and as you say football will continue its slow death until there are a small pool of teams playing football and everyone else goes part-time as there isn't the interest in the game.

I just hope that in decades to come these big clubs and moneymen will hold their hands up and admit that they killed the beautiful game.

(And by the way, I have to admit that Real Madrid are among the most guilty)

[maix27]

Originally Posted by overkill

No, Strachan on that account is wrong. We can see a super leauge in outline all right, but it's liable to be much smaller. It will include the Spanish giants (Real, Barca) the Italian giants (AC, Inter and Juve) the English big four, Bayern, Werder Bremen (maybe Hamburg?) and possibly, but only possibly, Ajax and PSV. Everyone else will be given a swift two fingers.

I think this could never happen. For a few reasons:
1) it would become too insular, eventually there would be a 'bottom end' of the new league and then these teams won't be making the money the top ones were. This is too much of a risk for any team. Once you realise you can't compete and you've burnt your domestic/FIFA bridges, where do you go?

Imagine how every other team/country league would feel. Say france, for example. What would their top teams do? With a lack of other top teams to play the resentment would result in the 'super league' teams having very limited scope and options to expand their reach.

TV deals would play a part, initially they'd be high but that would wain...

I think it's a stupid, elitist idea that will never happen.

[Phil Hinton]

This sounds like the ugly sisters looking for yet another way out of the Scottish leagues. They know that they will never be accepted into the EPL and are now looking for another route out of Scotland. They will state that there is no competition in the domestic league and with a lack of interest due to little competition is losing them millions in potential revenue.
However it has been the ugly sisters and their ever increasing grip on Scottish finances that has ruined any competition in Scotland and when a team looks like they might mount a challenge (Hibs, Hearts etc) they just go and buy up their talented players, give them huge salaries and sit them on the bench so the threat to the 'big two' is taken away. The rest of the teams in the SPL are so poor that this is allowed to happen to balance the books.
Rangers and Celtic only have themselves to blame for the state of Scottish football and their now lacking finances. Do you honestly believe they wanted to play as many home grown players? No, they just bought them up from the other clubs to dampen any competition.
Now the short Ginger comedian wants to dump the Scottish league and move on for even more money, leaving the SPL. Thing is the other clubs cannot force any change in the game due to fear of upsetting the 'big two' or the voting is unfair as the 'big two' have more voting rights than the other clubs. What would save the Scottish game is an expansion of the current leagues to two, a premier with 20 teams and a championship with the rest. But that will never happen as long as Rangers and Celtic are in charge or in the league and the other club chairmen will never have the bottle to vote to play the big two twice due to revenue loss as each plays then 4 times and secures them finance.
What also annoys me is the complete lack of respect for the Scottish game from the 'big two' as they will jump ship at the earliest oppertunity so they can earn their millions, leaving the rest to pick up the pieces. And when you have teams like Gretna allowed to play in the SPL it just makes the whole thing a laughing stock.
Scottish football is not as bad as most of my friends south of the border would like to think, however it is being strangled by the big two, it has been for decades and if nothing is done soon, it will die a slow death.
But you are starting to see the same in the English Premier where everyone now talks about the 'big four' and it's the start of the slippery slope to the rich getting richer and the rest suffering.
To add a European league to allow these cash cow clubs such as teh ugly sisters and the English top 4 to leave the domestic leagues could do two things. Allow better competition in the EPL and SPL as the money hounders have gone and they get their Wednesday night crowds for european games, or the new league kills off interest in the rest and football dies.

But is Football not already dead? Money seems to have finally killed off the common sense and competition........

[overkill]

Originally Posted by maix27

I think this could never happen. For a few reasons:
1) it would become too insular, eventually there would be a 'bottom end' of the new league and then these teams won't be making the money the top ones were. This is too much of a risk for any team. Once you realise you can't compete and you've burnt your domestic/FIFA bridges, where do you go?

Imagine how every other team/country league would feel. Say france, for example. What would their top teams do? With a lack of other top teams to play the resentment would result in the 'super league' teams having very limited scope and options to expand their reach.

TV deals would play a part, initially they'd be high but that would wain...

I think it's a stupid, elitist idea that will never happen.

You are correct of course, but since when did common sense prevail? We already know the clubs are stupid enough to fall for this, because we already have the precedents. All over Europe the leauges have become elitist with the top clubs either breaking away and forming 'premier leauges' or the FA's doing it before they do. But how did the top clubs get away with it? Surely the other clubs could see that the 'big four' would get the lions share of the cash and distance themselves from the rest? Well, you'd have thought so - but they didn't.

Exactly the same thing will happen again. The top sides will breakaway, and, as as others have said, they have already warned UEFA this would happen if they don't get their own way and the CL was turned into a leauge format, and play amongst themselves, continuing as they do, to siphon off all the cash. As you say, after a while the 'lesser lights' will realise they've boobed, but, as with the national leauges, it will be too late. Oh, and you can fully expect them to blackmail all the 'non elite' teams to carry on playing against them in some format.

I agree it is a stupid elitist idea, however, it's nearly happened a few times already, so your optimism is a little misplaced.

Phil, great post, totally agree.

Common sense has died a slow death in football and the game itself is only waiting for the last rites.

If the SL goes ahead, and the move to playing prestige games in the US and Asia, then it truly will be laid to rest.

The only hope will be, that once the big four, three or whatever in their respective countries, have pushed off to their SL, then the other clubs will get a better chance at success, and of a fairer slice of the financial cake. However, the problem is, is that the TV money will follow the 'super rich' clubs to the SL, and what's left will be gobbled up by the remaining bigger clubs who will just form a new 'elite' in the national leauges.

[Marc]

I doubt Strachan's right about the super league, it'd be a logistical nightmare and i think we're far more likely to see yet another change in the rules of the champions league to whatever the G14 decide it should be next

i would quite like to see all the current European competitions disposed of and replaced by a World Champions League, disposing of the other continents' equivalent tournaments at the same time, and combining them all into one big tournament.

The first round would include the 2 "UEFA Cup" teams, the next round would include the 2 cup winners and the third round would include the 3rd and 4th placed teams in the league, and whoever remained out of that lot would go into the group stage, along with the seeded 1st and 2nd place teams, and the groups could perhaps be expanded to 6 teams per group with 2 automatic qualifiers for the 5th round, and a play off for the 3rd placed teams (the asian/american/african/oceanic teams would also do the same in their regions)

complicated enough?

[DJT75]

Originally Posted by Marc

I doubt Strachan's right about the super league, it'd be a logistical nightmare and i think we're far more likely to see yet another change in the rules of the champions league to whatever the G14 decide it should be next

i would quite like to see all the current European competitions disposed of and replaced by a World Champions League, disposing of the other continents' equivalent tournaments at the same time, and combining them all into one big tournament.

The first round would include the 2 "UEFA Cup" teams, the next round would include the 2 cup winners and the third round would include the 3rd and 4th placed teams in the league, and whoever remained out of that lot would go into the group stage, along with the seeded 1st and 2nd place teams, and the groups could perhaps be expanded to 6 teams per group with 2 automatic qualifiers for the 5th round, and a play off for the 3rd placed teams (the asian/american/african/oceanic teams would also do the same in their regions)

complicated enough?

Not sure about opening it up worldwide but your example of say the English Top 6 + 2 Cup Winners all having a go at the same European tournament appeals to me more than the current European set up. More groups of 4 would be the only option though, as soon as you have knock-out stages followed by 10 group games it's getting far too much.

[maix27]

Originally Posted by overkill

I agree it is a stupid elitist idea, however, it's nearly happened a few times already, so your optimism is a little misplaced.

i think i have to agree. The only thing i think will stop this (especially in England) is that the top four teams (i presume you mean Utd, Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool) are not all that far away in terms of performance and finance from a few other teams.

I don't know if that makes sense, but consider this: Arsenal totenham will have a sell out capicity, where ever or when ever it is played. Arsenal play, say, Juve, on a wednesday night in deepest darkest north london, how many times do you reckon this will be a sell out?

We have to remember, prawn sandwich eaters are very fair weather...

I don't think it will work personally. It's nice when the top teams play each other in a specticle game, but it's not bread and butter, week-in, week-out stuff, or it wouldn't be a spectical, it would be normal.

I used to be a chelsea season ticket holder and love going to european away games, but boloks if i'd do it every other week!

[overkill]

Originally Posted by maix27

i think i have to agree. The only thing i think will stop this (especially in England) is that the top four teams (i presume you mean Utd, Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool) are not all that far away in terms of performance and finance from a few other teams.

I don't know if that makes sense, but consider this: Arsenal totenham will have a sell out capicity, where ever or when ever it is played. Arsenal play, say, Juve, on a wednesday night in deepest darkest north london, how many times do you reckon this will be a sell out?

We have to remember, prawn sandwich eaters are very fair weather...

I don't think it will work personally. It's nice when the top teams play each other in a specticle game, but it's not bread and butter, week-in, week-out stuff, or it wouldn't be a spectical, it would be normal.

I used to be a chelsea season ticket holder and love going to european away games, but boloks if i'd do it every other week!

I quite agree, and the poor gates at many Euro games bears that out, but, as they say money talks, and with the game increasingly funded by TV and sponsors, and with less and less meaningful money coming through the door, it increasingly crushes any hopes that the clubs may even think (for a micro second) about what the supporters wants to watch.

Marc, they have already shown it can work. It's called the CL. And that's one of the reasons why they pushed for that to happen. To see how the logistics would pan out.

Frankly I would allow them to go. With the proviso that if they do, and they defy FIFA, then they can no longer player association football. That is the only, and last card FIFA and UEFA can use to keep them in line.

They own the rights to the way the game is played.

Tbh I am sick of the so called G14 (what does 'G' stand for? 'Greedy'?) keep pushing everyone around, and equally sick of the games authorities allowing them to get away with it.

I would scrap the CL, and return to the old format like a shot. Return the UEFA cup to it's old form, and introduce a Cup winners cup that includes the Inter-toto winners, and L/C winners.

[RMCF]

The UEFA Cup as it stands at present needs scrapped.

The teams don't care, the fans don't care and the TV companies couldnt care less when it is compared to the CL.

I mean its all a big mess.

The current round of groups of 5 - all those games just to get rid of 2 teams from each. What a nonsense.

And then letting the useless teams from the CL into it - whats that about, other than rewarding failure. They had their chance in the CL, blew it but are allowed the chance to win the UEFA Cup - not right.

As for the idea of having a World CL - sorry but I won't watch that. Sure any average side from Europe is far better than teams from Iraq, Dubai, Iran and the likes. I won't pay to watch those hammerings getting dished out, and few will.

[danaldinho7]

could have a UK cup with the top teams from EPL SPL and say top 2 from Wales and Ireland(?) for good mesure

have it every other (or 4th) year or something

[RMCF]

Originally Posted by danaldinho7

could have a UK cup with the top teams from EPL SPL and say top 2 from Wales and Ireland(?) for good mesure

have it every other (or 4th) year or something

I watch live football in Ireland, and I'm afraid to say that both us, and the people from the Welsh league, could not compete with the big guns of the EPL or SPL.

But I would like to see those 2 leagues have some sort of cup. I'd watch that.

[mason]

I have got to laugh at the way Rangers and Celtic are slagged off in the way that people do. Whether people like it or not they do carry a world wide fan base and they always create some interest in european games that they play in and their fans are welcomed in every country they play in also.

Remember it is not the clubs that have ruined scottish football its the so called 'local fans'. Im a great beleiver in supporting your local team and unfortuneatly alot of scottish fans dont favour this and support either one of the Old Firm...... and you cant blame the clubs for cashing in on this can you? I dont believe you can... every club would do the same thing, its just the way it is, football is now about the money and the old firm want to get as much as they can.... the same as any other club.

As for excluding them from a SL.... not a chance... i dont believe that such a lague will happen but if it does, the old firm will be there like it or not. They have the fan base, the initial finances and the facilities. With more money to play with and better opposition, they would be up there fighting for titles like everyone else.

As for the current CL and UEFA cup set up...... it is far from ok and should be sorted for the better of the game.... not for the sake of money.... but it will always be about the money. I mean 'CHAMPIONS LEAGUE' should be called that for a reason.... only the champions of thier domestic league should be in it. Not 2nd, 3rd,4th, 5th and 6th place.. winners only... champions only.

I mean... you finish 4th in your league and you get to play with the 'so called elite'!!! You are having a laugh... what has your club done to merit that? Nothing!! But its they way it is and it wont change soon... why??... money!

UEFA cup should be for domestic league 2nd place and FA cup winners. I would bring back the Cup Winners Cup also... giving the league cup some merit and something to really play for.

I love watching european champions league football dont get me wrong but it always makes me laugh when nations get so many places in it when the clubs have done nothing to earn it..... other than be runners up that is!!

[overkill]

Mason, the old firm neither have the clout, or the players to get into the SL. That is clear from the very fact that they have never managed to get 'two' automatic CL places (which if they had, they would), from the fact the EPL always rejects (disdainfully) any overtures, and the simple fact that geography means they are out on a limb. Are Real, Barca et al going to get big gates to face either of those two? Compared to AC, Utd or Juve? Nope. Once again whatever your heart says, the head says forget it. Not to mention of course, the sectarian issue, that, like or not, still plays on the minds of the top clubs in Europe.

As for Scotland, you surely aren't being serious? The Old Firm have bullied and pushed around the SFA and other clubs for years, and it was with great pleasure we all saw their bluff called two years ago.

They are by no means alone, but those two teams more than any other have 'ideas above their station'.

And Strachen was voicing them.