[RMCF]

Rangers new signing DaMarcus Beasely has complained about the racist chanting he was on the receiving end of last night in Montenegro v FC Zeta.

And I fully support him for this - racist is something that needs to be eradicated from football.

But perhaps he will also come out against the blantant sectarianism that prevails at his new club, and the constant offensive chanting that can be heard at EVERY game Rangers are involved in.

UEFA have already been quick to say this morning that they are launching an investigation into the racism. If only they were so quick to investigate Rangers, which took them many years and even then they keep pussy-footing around the problem.

I am all for dumping teams out of Europe if their fans chant racist/sectarian songs/messages. And continue to do it until it stops. Believe me it would stop very quickly after the 1st or 2nd ban for clubs.

[KevD]

Totally agree, the powers keep on saying they are going to take this seriously but insist on giving trivial punishments.

In the recent U21 there was blatant racism from both the Fans and players of Serbia towards England. Instead of booting them out of the tournament, Uefa said they were going to take there time to ensure a suitable punishment. What did they come back with? £16 000 fine

"We have a policy of zero tolerance for racism," Uefa spokesman William Gaillard

[BritanniaJaf]

So are you saying that Rangers are the ONLY team that sing sectarian songs in Scotland, I agree we do have some idiots who are letting us down at the moment but belive you me we aint the ONLY one's in Scotland who do it

[Steven]

Calm down BMURRAY9

RMCF is only talking about Rangers... err because he is only talking about Rangers. That is not the same as saying it does not exist anywhere else in Mel's country or even a comment on the rest of the country whatsoever

[RMCF]

Originally Posted by BMURRAY9

So are you saying that Rangers are the ONLY team that sing sectarian songs in Scotland, I agree we do have some idiots who are letting us down at the moment but belive you me we aint the ONLY one's in Scotland who do it

I assume you want me to have a stab at Celtic too.

I appreciate that Celtic have their idiot followers too, but this thread was only started because of the media attention that DaMarcus has brought to RANGERS, not Scottish football in general.

I was basically trying to show how seriously racism is treated as a scourge when sectarianism has been with us for so much longer and is evident EVERY single week - unlike racist chants which happen every now and again.

It happens on TV and in other areas of society too. Any racist behaviour against black players/people is jumped upon immediately (unless you are UEFA) yet other forms of abuse are more tolerated.

Why was there not uproar when Trevor McDonald called Bernard Manning a 'fat white bastard' - and that after he had died as well. Not only was it racist but it shows a severe lack of respect as well for a dead person. Imagine it had been said in the opposite direction - there would have been mayhem in the press!!

I am not belittling racist chants at black players either. I too think fining associations and clubs a few thousands is no deterrent whatsoever. Throw them out of tournaments/competitions and the abuse will soon stop. I can guarantee that.

[Adrenochrome]

Originally Posted by RMCF

but this thread was only started because of the media attention that DaMarcus has brought to RANGERS, not Scottish football in general.

Bullocks. He didn't bring attention to Rangers he brought attention to Zeta, and as for your comment that sectarian chants can be heard at every game Rangers are involved in, well frankly that is some more bullocks, if you disagree ask the chap sent to the Zeta game to check the Rangers fans behaviour and you will see he said they behaved impeccably so I suggest you go wind your neck in mate.

[RMCF]

Originally Posted by Adrenochrome

Bullocks. He didn't bring attention to Rangers he brought attention to Zeta, and as for your comment that sectarian chants can be heard at every game Rangers are involved in, well frankly that is some more bullocks, if you disagree ask the chap sent to the Zeta game to check the Rangers fans behaviour and you will see he said they behaved impeccably so I suggest you go wind your neck in mate.

Have Rangers not been reported after the 1st game of the SPL season for sectarian chanting at Inverness?


Perhaps they did behave themselves at Zeta, but you can hardly suddenly start praising them on the back of this after their previous history, including last season's European run.

If you are coming on here to defend their terrace chanting then I'm afraid this thread will not go much further. It is not just me having a pop at Rangers - their reputation precedes them. I was just pointing out how I had to take DaMarcus's comments with a pinch of salt due to the club he was playing for.

[mason]

Originally Posted by RMCF

I was just pointing out how I had to take DaMarcus's comments with a pinch of salt due to the club he was playing for.

i thinnk it is hard to take his comments with a pinch of salt.... what he is complaining about happened and is out of order.

Granted, Rangers have had trouble with sectarianism and the like for decades but I dont think that you can write off one issue against another. Sectarian chanting and singing is more than just shouting abuse at someone its political.. hence why it is been harder to stop.

Bear in mind... that some of the songs that are sung are not offensive but are songs of cultural heritage. I.e. the Sash, Derrys Walls etc are not what is bringing Rangers inder scrutiny, but its the add on's etc.

Unfortunately, because Rangers are one of the big two in Scotland then it is brought to our attention and publicly critised from the outset. Also.... it isnt just Rangers and Celtic.... it happens at Hearts, Hibs etc.

Not good I know... but its hard to say how can one guy complain about being racially abused when a small portion of his clubs fans sing sectarian songs?

[RMCF]

I am not trying to write off DaMArcus's complaint - I would love to see FC Zeta investigated immediately and if found guilty banned from Europe for at least 1 season.

But by the same rules I would also like to see Rangers kicked out if the unacceptable chanting from some of their fans doesn't stop.

No club should be above the law, no matter how 'big' you are.

Football needs the good fans to police the bad element at games. If a team is kicked out of Europe and they receive a ban you can guarantee that if the chanting started again when they got back into Europe those doing the chanting would be quickly turned upon.

Football has many problems today, and throwing £20,000 fines at clubs which pay that out to a player over 2 or 3 days in wages isn't enough of a deterrent.

[geomuss]

here we go with my tuppence worth!

regarding the catholic and prodestant chanting, and branding these guys idiots etc etc, it was these same guys that brought the clubs through thick and thin, who payed good money to watch there team every week, bought shares in clubs etc etc. Now that we move to a more PC society this chanting is unacceptable, which i wholeheartedly agree with, but does scottish football really think it can eradicate this overnight, these people are born and breed with there beliefs, and these things take time. as for banning every one that sing songs of an offensive nature, you are more than likely banning the heart and soul of these clubs.

would it be more correct to instead of chanting etc, just have a good pitch battle after the match. causing mayhem and distress to countless?. maybe thats the route to go down, english clubs and national supporters have done it for years and never got banned!

[Lord Bunky]

Originally Posted by geomuss

would it be more correct to instead of chanting etc, just have a good pitch battle after the match. causing mayhem and distress to countless?. maybe thats the route to go down, english clubs and national supporters have done it for years and never got banned!

Some of the worse football trouble i have seen, comes from European Clubs. Im getting fed up of seeing English teams bashed all the time. You dont see many Euro clubs getting banned.

[geomuss]

its not a dig at english clubs in general its an actual statement of fact about all club worldwide! its a comparison to where, shouting on the terraces is more condemned now than violence off it!

[RMCF]

Originally Posted by Lord Bunky

Some of the worse football trouble i have seen, comes from European Clubs. Im getting fed up of seeing English teams bashed all the time. You dont see many Euro clubs getting banned.

Feyenoord were thrown out of the UEFA Cup last season because their fans were fighting (in Paris I believe).

And to be fair, and I hope that I don't come across as anti-English here, nothing compared with the hooliganism of English fans during the 80s. Yes there was bad elements in other countries, but the English were on a completely different level.

Now they seem to have sorted out most of the problems and its other countries that are struggling with hooligans and racism.

[RMCF]

Originally Posted by geomuss

here we go with my tuppence worth!

regarding the catholic and prodestant chanting, and branding these guys idiots etc etc, it was these same guys that brought the clubs through thick and thin, who payed good money to watch there team every week, bought shares in clubs etc etc. Now that we move to a more PC society this chanting is unacceptable, which i wholeheartedly agree with, but does scottish football really think it can eradicate this overnight, these people are born and breed with there beliefs, and these things take time. as for banning every one that sing songs of an offensive nature, you are more than likely banning the heart and soul of these clubs.

would it be more correct to instead of chanting etc, just have a good pitch battle after the match. causing mayhem and distress to countless?. maybe thats the route to go down, english clubs and national supporters have done it for years and never got banned!

To address some of your points:

Yes admittedly these guys who may chant offensive songs are probably 'hardcore' fans who have spent thousands on their club over the years (more than the plastic fans) but this doesn't give them the right to chant racist or sectarian songs does it? And I do realise that the clubs are trying their best to eradicate this problem and it won't happen overnight, but does that mean that UEFA should excuse it just becuase the clubs are trying? If this was the case no team would ever be banned - sure Feyenoords board could say they are trying to get rid of the hooligans, FC Zeta's board could say they are trying to get rid of the racists etc etc. Sometimes you just have to take action - and it will also unfortunately affect the 'real' and 'decent' fans.

Also you say that 'these people' are born and bred with these beliefs - thats fair enough but you also have to accept that in some countries racism is born and bred into people as well - but that doesn't make it ok to make monkey noises.

[geomuss]

Originally Posted by RMCF

To address some of your points:

Yes admittedly these guys who may chant offensive songs are probably 'hardcore' fans who have spent thousands on their club over the years (more than the plastic fans) but this doesn't give them the right to chant racist or sectarian songs does it? And I do realise that the clubs are trying their best to eradicate this problem and it won't happen overnight, but does that mean that UEFA should excuse it just becuase the clubs are trying? If this was the case no team would ever be banned - sure Feyenoords board could say they are trying to get rid of the hooligans, FC Zeta's board could say they are trying to get rid of the racists etc etc. Sometimes you just have to take action - and it will also unfortunately affect the 'real' and 'decent' fans.

Also you say that 'these people' are born and bred with these beliefs - thats fair enough but you also have to accept that in some countries racism is born and bred into people as well - but that doesn't make it ok to make monkey noises.

totally agree with your points, regarding racism and the singing, dont get me wrong i dont condone any of these things, i was at the first game of mark walters rangers career when he was berated totally. I just feel now, that in the present climate of this country, with everything having to be so politically correct, that there is no expression allowed where it be vocal or any other means, it seems to offend someone somewhere.

is the goverment and europe as a whole just trying to turn us in to someting out of equillibrium.

sorry but it wont work!

[RMCF]

Well the thing about abuse from football terraces is that it tends to be very often offensive.

For example, if you are inthe front row at the corner flag you would be allowed to roar at an opposition player very crude abuse. Perhaps calling him a w**ker or abuse about his mother etc. That is acceptable apparently. Yet if you were to call him a black w**ker then its just not on these days. You could be arrested under some law to do with incitement to racial hatred.

I always thought that when the authorities tried to get the fans to stop certain abuse that they were on to a loser. It is hard to stop thousands of people, and as you say EVERYTHING is offensive to someone sonewhere, so how do you categorise the abuse.

We can't turn the terraces into the days of the 1920 and 30s, with everyone applauding the opposition and saying 'well played old fella', but at the same time can we ignore racist chanting?

Some would say that the black players should just play on and try even harder to beat the opposition to rub it up the idiots on the terraces. But most players can't do this.

I don't know the solution.

[geomuss]

totally agree with your regarding the racist insults, but when does an insult become a crime or when is it not.

Im actually finding really hard to put into word what im meaning here, i just remember the good old days, when what was said at a football match was usually just said in the heat of the moment and the intensity of the game!

the things i have said at a game i would not like to repeat! but its the NORM!!

Im not saying that insulting a player for 90 minutes about his skin colour is acceptable, but in the same breath as was previous stated insulting him about his mother or father or sexuality is!

maybe the uk as whole should stand back for a while and reasses the situation we are finding ourselves in and the path in which we are going down!

[Abbeygoo]

Originally Posted by RMCF

Why was there not uproar when Trevor McDonald called Bernard Manning a 'fat white bastard' - and that after he had died as well. Not only was it racist but it shows a severe lack of respect as well for a dead person. Imagine it had been said in the opposite direction - there would have been mayhem in the press!!

I still can't believe this statement. It is unbelievable that this level of hypocrisy exists - like RMCF says, if someone had said that about Trevor McDonald that would have been like World War III.

Still, I had to put up with DaMarcus Beasley for six months last year.... I'm just glad he's playing somewhere else!

[RMCF]

Originally Posted by Abbeygoo

I still can't believe this statement. It is unbelievable that this level of hypocrisy exists - like RMCF says, if someone had said that about Trevor McDonald that would have been like World War III.

Still, I had to put up with DaMarcus Beasley for six months last year.... I'm just glad he's playing somewhere else!

Starting to get into thin ice here, but the whole racism debate confuses me.

I know I am white, but to me racism only seems to flow in one direction nowadays. And we all know what direction I mean.

If I insult a black person about the colour of their skin then I am the lowest form of life. But the other way round doesn't seem to even be counted as racism.

Plus Asians and those from countries such as India, Pakistan etc do not seem to have the same protection in today's world. Or thats how it appears to me anyway.

Personally I was shocked, a more than a little annoyed, about Trevor McDonald's comments. I could not believe the incredible lack of coverage it got. It may have been due to the fact that many people hated Bernard Manning, but this still doesn't make it OK for him to come out with THAT comment.

One rule for one .....

[Abbeygoo]

We're opening up a can of worms here but it needs discussion, I feel.

I was watching a late night TV show where a lad was kicked out of a night club for being drunk, fighting etc and the bouncer was called "a white t**t" - the bouncer looked at the camera and said, "it would make headlines if I called him a black t**t wouldn't it?"

Spot on.

[RMCF]

Originally Posted by Abbeygoo

We're opening up a can of worms here but it needs discussion, I feel.

I was watching a late night TV show where a lad was kicked out of a night club for being drunk, fighting etc and the bouncer was called "a white t**t" - the bouncer looked at the camera and said, "it would make headlines if I called him a black t**t wouldn't it?"

Spot on.

So enough of this whole racism nonsense, just how bad is DaMarcus Beasley !!

[Abbeygoo]

Originally Posted by RMCF

So enough of this whole racism nonsense, just how bad is DaMarcus Beasley !!

He is utter garbage ......... lightweight, slow, lazy, poor crosser

[mason]

Originally Posted by Abbeygoo

He is utter garbage ......... lightweight, slow, lazy, poor crosser

too be fair.... i dont think the management team at the time had the skills to get the best out any player that was in the squad.

from what i have seen so far- he looks like a fairly good player. fairly quick and the games he has played so far, he has put his fair share of graft in

[Abbeygoo]

Originally Posted by mason

too be fair.... i dont think the management team at the time had the skills to get the best out any player that was in the squad.

from what i have seen so far- he looks like a fairly good player. fairly quick and the games he has played so far, he has put his fair share of graft in

Football's all about opinions and I hope that he turns out to be a good player for you. I was asked my opinion although I acknowledge the point about not getting the best from him. I'll stick by what I said as I can only go off what I saw with my own eyes from january onwards last season.

[Adrenochrome]

Originally Posted by Abbeygoo

poor crosser

He'll do well at Rangers then

[Adrenochrome]

Originally Posted by RMCF

Have Rangers not been reported after the 1st game of the SPL season for sectarian chanting at Inverness?

Hardly every game then eh.

Originally Posted by RMCF

Perhaps they did behave themselves at Zeta, but you can hardly suddenly start praising them on the back of this after their previous history, including last season's European run.

I was hardly praising them, I was merely pointing out your statements were wrong.

Originally Posted by RMCF

If you are coming on here to defend their terrace chanting then I'm afraid this thread will not go much further. It is not just me having a pop at Rangers - their reputation precedes them. I was just pointing out how I had to take DaMarcus's comments with a pinch of salt due to the club he was playing for.

I am certainly not defending them, but to give you a little bit of insight I am a Rangers supporting Protestant and my best mate is a Celtic supporting Catholic, when we go to the football (separately of course ) we both sing what we sing and come back and have a beer together.

[lubo]

Originally Posted by BMURRAY9

So are you saying that Rangers are the ONLY team that sing sectarian songs in Scotland, I agree we do have some idiots who are letting us down at the moment but belive you me we aint the ONLY one's in Scotland who do it

No Hearts do as well. Celtic have maybe two that could be classed as sectarian that are VERY rarely heard anymore. Most of the Scottish press do not seem able to grasp the difference between a political song and a sectarian song.
Still no surprise there really

[RMCF]

Originally Posted by Adrenochrome

Hardly every game then eh.




I was hardly praising them, I was merely pointing out your statements were wrong.



I am certainly not defending them, but to give you a little bit of insight I am a Rangers supporting Protestant and my best mate is a Celtic supporting Catholic, when we go to the football (separately of course ) we both sing what we sing and come back and have a beer together.

I have only been saying that although a lot of Scottish teams have idiot fans and problems with chanting, Rangers have been the team are seem to be always be reported for it/have it addressed in the media.

Perhaps if you can tell me the last time Aberdeen, or Hearts, or Hibs, or Celtic were reported to UEFA or the SFA for offensive chanting then I will stand corrected.

Also good to hear that you are best mates with a Celt - shame the 2 of you have to watch that every week !!

[RMCF]

Originally Posted by lubo

No Hearts do as well. Celtic have maybe two that could be classed as sectarian that are VERY rarely heard anymore. Most of the Scottish press do not seem able to grasp the difference between a political song and a sectarian song.
Still no surprise there really

Care to name the 2 Celtic songs?

[lubo]

Well it isn't really a song but a add on some fans put in it We're on the one road- which some cretins add the line "soon there'll be no protestants at all" into.
And the other one that could be classed as sectarian(maybe)would be Roamin in the Gloamin.
But as i said you rarely hear these now and thankfully the add on has mostly been dropped.
Celtic launched their Bhoys Against Bigotry campaign in 1996 off their own backs and with no pressure to do so.
I'm not saying Celtic fans are angels but i can't think of many incidents involving them that are on a level with the Mark Scott murder.