[Decadence]

Just my opinion but the insistence of Steve McLaren to view Lampard as "essential" in the lineup is completely ruining the England setup. More than any other person in any other position he is holding the team back massively. Central midfield is crucial and by keeping Lampard in the squad we severely limit our options and capabilities.

Get him out, bring someone else in...tonight I would have tried Phil Neville instead of Lampard. He could have played the defensive role that prevented Gerrard from pushing further forward. Either that or Ledley King/Michael Carrick in for the same purpose and maybe put Michael Dawson in central midfield.

Whatever...the main purpose of this thread is just to say that the manager needs to drop him to the bench at least...it is the best step forward we could make!

[KevD]

The team, yes - the squad is a little harsh

He was just too slow to everything today and he has to make way when Hargreaves come back to let Gerrard fill the more foward role.

Would love a Lampard in the England team playing the way he did 2 years ago, but he hasnt been seen in those two years.

[Steven]

Well Hargreaves was crippled so we will see what McClaren will do...

No doubt he is hoping the choice will be out of his hands so he does not have to take responsibility!

Yes we know he scores a shed load of goals for Chelski. Yes, without him, they really would be in trouble. No, no one knows why for England he bottles it/doesn't happen for him (delete as per your allegiance)

[johnscarlet]

I almost started a thread tonight called ENGLAND V BRAZIL , comments .
Where I started off with that very subject . Lampard OR Gerrard not both .
Every manager would have loved the chance to have both SG & FL in thier sides . But England have had the chance and it does not work. With Beckham coming back in the squad , he was always going to start . The big decision tonight would have been to leave out either/or . And he couldn't make it .
Still , Hargreaves wasn't available ,and its only Estonia coming up .

I didn't start it as I thought I was only repeating myself .So I'll stop now

[Decadence]

I completely agree, my choice for tonight would have been Hargreaves all the way had he been fit. Even if Hargreaves was available I still think that we'd have Lampard and Gerrard shoehorned into the midfield.

I do think Lampard is a good club player but for England we just keep on playing him and playing him in the hope that he'll find the form he used to have. It's not going to happen so time to move on. We have so many options if we drop him! But we didn't do it, not even for a friendly match to see what might happen!

[KevD]

People say its only Estonia, but the game is huge and depending on results tomorrow we could be 5 points behind Croatia and 3 behind Russia (with no games in hand!), so ALL the pressure, alot of it, is on England.

The best way for us to win convincingly is too have Gerrard playing his normal role going foward and have Carrick (or Neville) in the side. Might get a few goals which could be useful if the group goes down to the wire.

I only thank Sven for somehow coming out of the meeting at the begnning of the campaign giving us our last 4 qualifiers all at home, he did do something right for England

[la gran siete]

Gerard was absoluter;ly superb in the holding role but England really had no penetration. Smith shouldnt be allowed near an England shirt again, the man plainly has no class.Shorey did very well for his first cap , Becks was veryu good but needs G Neville behind him, both Terry and King did very well too. Lamps again wasnt up to it and i'd like to have seen Cole tried just behind the front striker with Downing on the left. Reasonable performance against the worlds best team.Need to up the tempo though. 7/10

[M-C-P-M]

I was at the game last night and Lampard was boooed every time he went near the ball and i have to say, for good reason! He was appalling he seems to be running in porridge as soon as he had the ball he didn't have a clue! what a great stadium by the way

[la gran siete]

Originally Posted by M-C-P-M

I was at the game last night and Lampard was boooed every time he went near the ball and i have to say, for good reason! He was appalling he seems to be running in porridge as soon as he had the ball he didn't have a clue! what a great stadium by the way

Lucky you Mind you I dont think it helps a players confidence to keep getting booed
Another thing what is the point of Jenas ?? I just dont see it

[Epicurus]

Originally Posted by M-C-P-M

I was at the game last night and Lampard was boooed every time he went near the ball and i have to say, for good reason! He was appalling he seems to be running in porridge as soon as he had the ball he didn't have a clue! what a great stadium by the way

Seriously, lucky lucky guy that stadium looks fantastic.

I agree that when Hargreaves is fit he should come back into the side at the expense of Lampard with Becks on the right and Cole on the left. I don't like Downing at all.

Front is still an issue, England still have the habit of too many long balls which means a pairing of Rooney and Owen is rendered almost useless. Either they stop doing so many long balls (ideally) or they will have to use someone like Crouch. I'm not a fan of Crouch (and i'm a pool supporter) and his distribution off his head is random to say the least, but most of the time he can stand there like a lamppost and the ball will it him on the head and go somewhere.

Owen is a must though, a year at Real Madrid made him even more deadly, noone really talks about it because maybe most people don't notice it, but his off the ball movement is in the class of the best continental strikers now. Not to mention he is one of those predators who always just seems to be in the right place to nick a goal, so he can't be left out when fit.

[johnscarlet]

A fit Lennon , rather than Beckham .
As good as DB is , he promotes the longball game (not to mention drifting in field too much , still). And the fear Lennon put in sides with his pace at the world cup was clear to see .

[Decadence]

Like I said earlier, the best chance we have with to open the team up to fulfil its potential lies with dropping Lampard.

[KevD]

Yeap, the key is the middle of the park. Lennon or Beckham is a different arguement and would have a lesser impact than a change in the middle. Im a Spurs fan and think Lennon could be amazing for us & England, but he was a little dissapointing toward the end of the season.

I definitely think Lampard needs dropping. He is always taking the shot on and being selfish when there are people in far better positions to pass to. I would much rather see Steven Gerrard and Owen Hargreaves in the centre.

I also suspect that trying to shoehorn Lampard in the team was one of the reasons that lead to Scholsey retireing from England. Imo scholes got sick of being played on the left side just to accomodate " Super Frank". For me he would still be Englands first choice midfielder followed very very closely by Gerrard.

Also does anyone think Joe Coles lollypops fooled anyone, he kept trying it but he looked like he was doing it in slow motion. Perhaps I am just used to the speed at which Ronaldo performs them.

[Steven]

I didn't watch the match, so only just found out

Awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

...

Oh well!

[thfccambs]

Originally Posted by M-C-P-M

I was at the game last night and Lampard was boooed every time he went near the ball and i have to say, for good reason!

What part of the ground was you in?I was n section i L and never heard that,heard a few moans but not being booed all the time.

Lampard was shocking as he has been for England for the past 16 months.Smith,god only knows what he was donig there lastnight.

[overkill]

I would tend to agree - within reason. I think Lampard isn't playing as well as he used to, and maybe dropping him to the bench is that answer. But he isn't alone. In the first half last night, no-one looked inspiring, and as someone else said, Beckhams dropping long balls over distance doesn't help. They need someone to play the ball through, to feet. Sadly, the names being dropped, Hargreaves and Gerrard aren't that sort of player. So, who really needs to come in?

England will play the long ball as long as McLaren thinks that will work. It won't. And whether England drop Lampard, and push so and so or such and such into the middle isn't going to change that. Can Owen and Rooney feed off long balls? Nope. Is Crouch the answer? Nope. England need to start playing 4-4-2, passing the ball to feet and allowing the likes of Joe Cole and SWP a bit of time and room in the side to create movement, and themselves kept supplied with the ball, which could be won by a player in the Scholes mode. Hard working, covering a lot of ground - but with talent. Sorry, but to me Hargreaves, on the evidence of four good games as opposed to dozens of poor ones, isn't that man.

Hopefully he will prove me wrong. Hopefully.

But we are also still talking about the likes of Scholes, Gary Neville, Beckham as though they are the answer?! But all are in their veteran stage. Is there no-one who can step up and inspire the team from the current generation?

[overkill]

Originally Posted by hunts1uk

What part of the ground was you in?I was n section i L and never heard that,heard a few moans but not being booed all the time.

Lampard was shocking as he has been for England for the past 16 months.Smith,god only knows what he was donig there lastnight.

As in another thread, he plays for Man Utd. Period. England managers imaginations only stretch to the 'big four', and Spurs.

[thfccambs]

Originally Posted by overkill

As in another thread, he plays for Man Utd. Period. England managers imaginations only stretch to the 'big four', and Spurs.

3 of the top 4 ,as your lot is full of french players.

[KevD]

Originally Posted by hunts1uk

What part of the ground was you in?I was n section i L and never heard that,heard a few moans but not being booed all the time.

I heard a few boos during the game on the TV, and a loud boo when he came off, dont think it was Crouch coming on this time

[thfccambs]

Originally Posted by KevD

I heard a few boos during the game on the TV, and a loud boo when he came off, dont think it was Crouch coming on this time

He was booed when his name was called out at the start and when he went off but didn't hear any during the game,was closer to the passing aeroplanes then the pitch though.

[Marc]

Lampard was awful, gave the ball away too much. Joe Cole was awful, clearly doesn't have any ability with his left foot so is easy to mark. Shorey was out of his depth, showed potential but was too afraid to play a probing ball. Smith was anonymous, though his tireless running only works when other players in the team do it at the same time, and that was never going to happen.

i think we need wholesale changes for the Estonia game.

Lampard replaced by Cole in central midfield and Downing or Lennon on the wing, and Bridge at Left back, plus Crouch for Smith, should do the trick.

[KevD]

Originally Posted by Marc

Lampard replaced by Cole in central midfield and Downing or Lennon on the wing, and Bridge at Left back, plus Crouch for Smith, should do the trick.

I think against Estonia Joe Cole shoud be fine on the left wing, especially with Bridge running outside him (like you say Shorey just wasnt confident enough to really bomb on past him).

Crouch in for Smith, Carrick for Lampard are the only changes I would like to see

[co55ie]

Fat Frank is utterly hopeless and has proven time and time again that he isnt needed in the squad, England have many better options than Lampard.

When Hargreaves is fit use him as the defensive midfielder and let Gerrard do what he does best.

McClaren is an idiot if he wants to constrain one of the very best midfielders in the world so he can play a second rate fool in the team just because one of the football pundits and hello magazine said he was good.

Would a chelsea fan like to confirm how many of Lampards goals in his Chelsea career have been due to lucky deflections ? Quite a high proportion I would imagine.

I sincerely hope the England fans carry on heckling Fwank and the press get on his case so we can see the back off him ASAP

[M-C-P-M]

I was in section C row 23 seat 7 and believe me where i was there was a lot of booing
and as hunts1uk said Smith,god only knows what he was donig there lastnight. he was bloody awful Fat Frank was a genius compared to that waste of space!

[plonky]

In the Chelsea team, Lampard usually fits in extremely well. As a footballer in his own right, I dont think he's all that

[dannius]

The main issue with Lampard being in the team is that it cripples Gerrard. What's the point in having a world class attacking midfielder and forcing him to play the holding role so a less effective attacking midfielder can go forward?

It seems to be staring Mclaren in the face, why didn't he play Carrick in the holding role so Gerrard can bomb forward like he does for Liverpool? Carrick played there for Spurs and has done so for Man Utd so we know he is comfortable in that role. He also offers great distribution through the middle which others have stated we need.

Overkill, I don't want to sound like Beckham's fan club but it seems you take every opportunity to slate him. I know we need to look to the future but I simply can't understand why we should not be including one of our most talented players simply because of his age. Maybe I was watching a different match last night, but from where I was sitting Beckham was probably our best attacking player and gave us that little something extra. From the reception he got from the fans I can't be alone in this opinion.

I aggree with the comments about Alan Smith, he didn't convince me at all. But to his defence he was extremely well policed by the Brazil defence, as was Owen most of the time.

I'm still encouraged by the performance though, we showed some of the passion that we have been missing for a few games. It might have been the occasion which made the difference, but it was good to see nonetheless.

[Miyazaki]

Gareth Barry should have started instead of Lampard. He could have tucked inside Cole nicely, and switched over/ covered when necessary.

[thfccambs]

Originally Posted by Games Guru

Gareth Barry should have started instead of Lampard. He could have tucked inside Cole nicely, and switched over/ covered when necessary.

Would play Matty Taylor before Barry and Lampard.

[CFC1]

Originally Posted by co55ie

I sincerely hope the England fans carry on heckling Fwank and the press get on his case so we can see the back off him ASAP

What a great attitude and message you have there!

Reading through this thread, and seeing who some of the contributors are, there really is no surprise at the b*ll**s being spouted. The Frank bashing has become tedious and a band wagon that all and sundry are jumping on, and honestly, I can't understand why.

At worst, Frank has had a bad 18 months in an England shirt ... so who hasn't? ... So, for the suggestion that he is "ruining the England squad" there are quite a few candidates, IMO. England's problems are far more deep rooted than having Frank involved. At the end of the day, we all need a reality check and wake up to the fact that the national team isn't as good as the potential sum of it's parts. Only a foolish person would think we would become world beaters overnight, if we simply removed Frank from the squad. IMO, it's a good thing that so far, the calls for the old Home International tournament has been resisted ... I fear England would end up being a little embarrassed.....