[RMCF]

So yet again we have another showpiece final, and yet again we have another ticket fiasco.

Isn't it time that UEFA, who apparently always say they are in it for 'the good of the game' to wise up and act.

I have been at 4 CL finals myself and have seen the number of 'suits' that fill large parts of the stadium. Plus their fleet of Ford people carriers to ferry them from the hotels to the free beer tents.

I appreciate that they have to offer tickets to their sponsors, but the balance is totally wrong. Plus so many corporate tickets end up being touted to fans at sky high prices. I read that they expect at least 30,000 Pool fans are expected to be in the ground tonight. Yet they got 17,000 tickets. Yet UEFA stand idly by and watch the stadium fill up with people who they know had to take loans to buy tickets from corporate touts!!

Also, I hear that of the 17,000 that Liverpool got the 1st x 6,000 went to corporate sponsors of Liverpool FC. So 11,000 genuine Liverpool fans got tickets for the final.

The fans are losing football to big business. And it is a shame.

[Badger0-0]

Agreed, bloody scandalous.
But what can you do?
The only thing would be boycott the club you love

Short and curlies springs to mind.

[Croker]

Originally Posted by RMCF

So yet again we have another showpiece final, and yet again we have another ticket fiasco.

Isn't it time that UEFA, who apparently always say they are in it for 'the good of the game' to wise up and act.

I have been at 4 CL finals myself and have seen the number of 'suits' that fill large parts of the stadium. Plus their fleet of Ford people carriers to ferry them from the hotels to the free beer tents.

I appreciate that they have to offer tickets to their sponsors, but the balance is totally wrong. Plus so many corporate tickets end up being touted to fans at sky high prices. I read that they expect at least 30,000 Pool fans are expected to be in the ground tonight. Yet they got 17,000 tickets. Yet UEFA stand idly by and watch the stadium fill up with people who they know had to take loans to buy tickets from corporate touts!!

Also, I hear that of the 17,000 that Liverpool got the 1st x 6,000 went to corporate sponsors of Liverpool FC. So 11,000 genuine Liverpool fans got tickets for the final.

The fans are losing football to big business. And it is a shame.

I honestly mean you no disrespect, but you need to wake up - this has been going on for years, and is really starting to get beyond the joke now. There has been so much money thrown at football (in particular at the players), that the only way to survive is to do as much corporate whoring as possible. Every time you see a new stadium built, have a good look at how much of it is taken up by corporate boxes and the like. It's a huge proportion in comparison to how much it used to be.

The game is now in a position where the vast amounts of money being spent by clubs on and off the pitch can only be sustained by taking more and more of the yankee dollar (to coin the old expression). If Carlsberg are paying you millions every year, and want 1000 tickets for the final (an exaggeration, I know, but bear with me), what do you, as a board-member, do? Shaft random people who pay you £500 a year, knowing that you can get someone to replace them fairly easily? Or risk ******* off your sponsors and corporate partners, and have the club running into serious money problems? It absolutely stinks, but it's simple business sense. Keep the ones who give you the most money, the most happy.

In a few short years from now, the average man will have been priced out of the game almost entirely. And to think, football clubs used to be the heart of working class communities.

It's nothing short of ****ing disgusting.

[overkill]

RMCF, the only way to beat it, as I said to the wife tonight when she mentioned the silly money these id... fans paid put, is to boycott the final, or ordinary games come to that. Sorry, but it's only a game. If you want to beggar yourself over a game of football, well tough really. They rely on our gullibility, and I for one have had enough of it.

When I'm paying the best part of £30 to take my son and I to watch a bloody 3rd flight game, a bus journey away, you know it's gone way out of hand.

The choice is simple. We either carry on sumping up, or, do as we did in the 80's and stop sumping up a fortune to watch, quite frankly rubbish week in week out. The only power for change a fan has is to stop going. Then, and only then do the clubs do something.

[thfccambs]

Originally Posted by Croker

but you need to wake up - this has been going on for years, and is really starting to get beyond the joke now.

Has and will only get worse with the amount of money involved.

[RMCF]

Good reply.

I am a realist and appreciate that you have to have sponsors to fund the modern game.

But we let it get out of hand. Players should never have been allowed to earn the wages they do, because this just meant that it went into meltdown.

Getting back to the sponsors - the main gripe I have with them is the touting of their tickets. Its fair enough if you have to give thousands to big companies, but if these are then touted on to real fans at vastly increased prices then its not acceptable.

I realise that it has been going on for years, but that doesn't mean we should accept it.

I too fear for the future of football. This type of spending can't go on without it all exploding. Players who supposedly 'care' about a club (likes of Gerrard or Terry) are demanding £120,000 PER WEEK, which in turn forces the club they supposedly love to force up all their prices and take on more corporate sponsors, which means that the fans they supposedly love will get less and less tickets for matches.

Football stadium atmospheres have changed over recent years due to lack of standing but mainly due the real passionate fans being priced out of the stadium. I agree that it will continue and real fans will have to settle for the house or the pub to see the games.

Football teams can ignore the real fans now, but these are the ones with passion to follow teams in the bad times. The big companies won't. The suits won't. If a team is playing crap, form goes over a few years, they go downhill and the sponsors leave, its then they will be looking to the real fans to save their bacon.

[overkill]

Originally Posted by RMCF

Good reply.

I am a realist and appreciate that you have to have sponsors to fund the modern game.

But we let it get out of hand. Players should never have been allowed to earn the wages they do, because this just meant that it went into meltdown.

Getting back to the sponsors - the main gripe I have with them is the touting of their tickets. Its fair enough if you have to give thousands to big companies, but if these are then touted on to real fans at vastly increased prices then its not acceptable.

I realise that it has been going on for years, but that doesn't mean we should accept it.

I too fear for the future of football. This type of spending can't go on without it all exploding. Players who supposedly 'care' about a club (likes of Gerrard or Terry) are demanding £120,000 PER WEEK, which in turn forces the club they supposedly love to force up all their prices and take on more corporate sponsors, which means that the fans they supposedly love will get less and less tickets for matches.

Football stadium atmospheres have changed over recent years due to lack of standing but mainly due the real passionate fans being priced out of the stadium. I agree that it will continue and real fans will have to settle for the house or the pub to see the games.

Football teams can ignore the real fans now, but these are the ones with passion to follow teams in the bad times. The big companies won't. The suits won't. If a team is playing crap, form goes over a few years, they go downhill and the sponsors leave, its then they will be looking to the real fans to save their bacon.

Exactly. All it takes is a recession and just watch, as has happened before, all the money, all the suits just melt away. And where will the real fans be then? Gone. Priced out of the stadia, tired of watching on the sterile medium of TV.

It's all very well pandering to corporate sponsors, but they won't cover the bills if the real fans have walked.

It's simple economics.

[RMCF]

Originally Posted by overkill

RMCF, the only way to beat it, as I said to the wife tonight when she mentioned the silly money these id... fans paid put, is to boycott the final, or ordinary games come to that. Sorry, but it's only a game. If you want to beggar yourself over a game of football, well tough really. They rely on our gullibility, and I for one have had enough of it.

When I'm paying the best part of £30 to take my son and I to watch a bloody 3rd flight game, a bus journey away, you know it's gone way out of hand.

The choice is simple. We either carry on sumping up, or, do as we did in the 80's and stop sumping up a fortune to watch, quite frankly rubbish week in week out. The only power for change a fan has is to stop going. Then, and only then do the clubs do something.

overkill, I too think that a few empty stadiums would wake the teams and UEFA up, but lets be honest thats not gonna happen.

football is a game that instills so much passion in people that the stadiums will always have enough people looking to fill them (well for big Euro finals anyway).

Attendances are dropping off in the EPL now, with thousands of empty seats now a common occurrence at loads of EPL grounds. But does it really bother the teams? As has been said above, teams now get only a small proportion of their income from gate receipts. They need the sponsors more.

But I would love to see people boycott games to make a point.

But for me it is a simple problem that UEFA are just ignoring. Liverpool fans were given 11,000 tickets for tonight (actually 17,000 but 6,000 went to sponsors) - yet I would say there was at least 35,000 people decked in Liverpool colours in the stadium tonight. Surely Platini (who is trying to change the way football is run) can look and see this. It doesn't take a genius to work out that fans will get the tickets somehow, so why not cut back on the no. of tickets to the middlemen?

Also, remember England v Paraguay at WC2006? England got around 12,000 official tickets for that but about 95% of the stadium (about 48,000) were England fans - FIFA didn't care!!!

[thfccambs]

Originally Posted by RMCF

so why not cut back on the no. of tickets to the middlemen?
!

Why would UEFA want to stop giving sponsors thousands of tickets?That would be pure madness on there part.

Originally Posted by RMCF

Attendances are dropping off in the EPL now,

Are you sure on that?

[overkill]

Originally Posted by RMCF

overkill, I too think that a few empty stadiums would wake the teams and UEFA up, but lets be honest thats not gonna happen.

football is a game that instills so much passion in people that the stadiums will always have enough people looking to fill them (well for big Euro finals anyway).

Attendances are dropping off in the EPL now, with thousands of empty seats now a common occurrence at loads of EPL grounds. But does it really bother the teams? As has been said above, teams now get only a small proportion of their income from gate receipts. They need the sponsors more.

But I would love to see people boycott games to make a point.

But for me it is a simple problem that UEFA are just ignoring. Liverpool fans were given 11,000 tickets for tonight (actually 17,000 but 6,000 went to sponsors) - yet I would say there was at least 35,000 people decked in Liverpool colours in the stadium tonight. Surely Platini (who is trying to change the way football is run) can look and see this. It doesn't take a genius to work out that fans will get the tickets somehow, so why not cut back on the no. of tickets to the middlemen?

Also, remember England v Paraguay at WC2006? England got around 12,000 official tickets for that but about 95% of the stadium (about 48,000) were England fans - FIFA didn't care!!!

Oh I quite agree, fans will always turn out for the big games, but as I say, all it takes is a recession, and the sponsors, who themselves feel the pinch, start to pull out...........

The tickets thing has always wound me up. It is no excuse that sponsors are given 'privileges', because as you say, if that's the case how come so many end up in the fans hands? Via the touts of course.............. It's a scam, it always has been a scam, and sadly, it always will be.

I can't see Platini putting an end to whats been the norm throughout my days as a football fan - and that's over thirty years now.

[Steven]

UEFA have a point - the number of English supporters who go abroad regardless of whether they have a ticket or not vastly outnumber their continental counterparts who would have the same idea

Airlines and hotels know they shouldn't, but when people will pay stupidly inflated prices, a fact not even hidden, why do anything?

[overkill]

Originally Posted by LFC_SL

UEFA have a point - the number of English supporters who go abroad regardless of whether they have a ticket or not vastly outnumber their continental counterparts who would have the same idea

Airlines and hotels know they shouldn't, but when people will pay stupidly inflated prices, a fact not even hidden, why do anything?

This is the problem. Obviously the continentals aren't as daft as we are when it comes to going to big matches. Ie, if you're going to have to mortgage the house, then sorry no, get real.

[RMCF]

Originally Posted by hunts1uk

Why would UEFA want to stop giving sponsors thousands of tickets?That would be pure madness on there part.

Disagree.

If UEFA cared about the game, as they always claim they do, they would just say to the likes of Heineken, Sony, Ford etc - "I sorry but there are far to many tickets ending up on the black market - so next season we are giving you only 60% of what you got last year'.

Now, sponsors might do 2 things.

1st - they might just pull out. Fair enough. But football is so big there would not be any hassle getting a replacement sponsor. There are hundreds of other massive companies who would love to get in to this closed shop (same sponsors for years).

2nd - they accept it and pay 60% less than they do now. This will mean that UEFA will have to cut prize money by 60% and the teams will have to accept it. Thus the madness of wages might slow down a little.

Either way, UEFA can give more tickets to the 2 teams in the final.

I have been at 4 CL finals since 1998. I have seen all the suits in my hotels standing around at free tents eating plush food and drinking free beer waiting on Ford to come and ferry them to the game. I saw many many people who I would bet my mortgage on who had no interest in football but wanted a free weekend abroad. I have witnessed loads of empty seats that took 20mins AFTER halftime to get refilled, as the suits took their time coming back from their free halftime refreshments. They have no interest in the game. This is killing football, and it hurt me as I had to go out into town to buy a touted ticket from guys who had hundreds in their hands!! How does a guy in his 20s (most are usually English by the way even when there are no English teams uinvolved) end up with vast bundles of tickets. Would you believe my conspiracy theory that they are selling them on behalf of companies? Or that they bought them off the likes of Sony for half of what they are selling them for?

[Dave]

It's not just UEFA, look at the play off final for the championship.

I'd love to go but a decent ticket is 70 quid, then I have to get down there, eat and drink. So I'm looking at nearly 200 quid to go and see one game.

That's assuming I could get a ticket of course. I don't have a season ticket so can't get tickets through that, a mate that does already got 2 for her and her son. The only other way of getting a ticket is being a "member" which would cost me a tenner for the season, of which there is one game left and then I could get just one ticket. So my mate I normally go with would then have to pay a tenner too on top of the ticket price.

It makes my blood boil that me and my mate have been going regularly all season yet can't get a ticket for the play off final unless we throw even more money at the club, not to mention the fact that 30% of ticket allocation is corporate anyway.

I could get tickets off ebay or something but I simply refuse to pay the price so I'll watch it in the pub.

Rant over.

[RMCF]

Admittedly this is really only a major problem when an English team is involved.

Spanish, German, Italian fans like their football, but they won't pay £1000 for a ticket. That is just crazy.

You can guarantee if no English are involved then the tout market is not very lucrative.

As for the attendances dropping in the EPL, I have seen the empty seats spreading a lot over the last few years when I watch matches on TV. The FA Cup is dying especially.

[Steven]

@ Dave W, even if you're a season ticket hiolder, been to every CL game this season for your team, you still wasn't guaranteed to get a ticket for the final

Seems the way to go is buy tickets early

Not a fan? You're in the money! A fan but can't make the date? You're in the money! A fan and can go? Let's form a can-can line!

Or God forbid, sell the ticket at face value to a lucky, lucky fan. But why do that? Pffft!

[overkill]

Originally Posted by RMCF

Admittedly this is really only a major problem when an English team is involved.

Spanish, German, Italian fans like their football, but they won't pay £1000 for a ticket. That is just crazy.

You can guarantee if no English are involved then the tout market is not very lucrative.

As for the attendances dropping in the EPL, I have seen the empty seats spreading a lot over the last few years when I watch matches on TV. The FA Cup is dying especially.

The inevitable result of gate prices too high for even the middle classes increasingly, too little good football, and too much football on TV.

The Golden goose is not just being killed it's being hacked to pieces.

[Dave]

Originally Posted by LFC_SL

@ Dave W, even if you're a season ticket hiolder, been to every CL game this season for your team, you still wasn't guaranteed to get a ticket for the final

Which IMHO is absolutely disgusting. Season ticket holders and people who attend every game should get priority over corporate every time.

It just seems that the supporters are being forgotten in the pursuit of revenue from sponsors. They all spend their hard earned cash on their club and when it comes to a big game should be first in line for tickets, not sitting on the phone for hours or getting ripped off by touts.

[thfccambs]

Originally Posted by Dave W

It just seems that the supporters are being forgotten in the pursuit of revenue from sponsors. They all spend their hard earned cash on their club and when it comes to a big game should be first in line for tickets, not sitting on the phone for hours or getting ripped off by touts.

Dave sorry if you was a true supporter you would have a season ticket or at least a membership,you can't just want to go as there at a Wembley play off can you?How much would a membership of cost you at the start of the season?£10

Can't believe your moaning about not being able to get a ticket and you couldn't even be bothered to buy a membership to the club your suppose to support?

Will you buy a membership this coming season?


Fans don't keep clubs going anymore it's all down to sponsorship,Football is a global thing that shown all over the world.A sponsors delight.

For me at spurs it cost me at least £50 for a match ticket,sometimes even more.If i don't buy it someone else will it's as simple as that.

[rio1981]

Originally Posted by hunts1uk

Dave sorry if you was a true supporter you would have a season ticket or at least a membership(

That's a little narrow-minded in my opinion.

The point being that true supporters are being priced out of the game - and Dave has pointed out that he's followed his side all season, club membership shouldn't really come into it.

[overkill]

Originally Posted by rio1981

That's a little narrow-minded in my opinion.

The point being that true supporters are being priced out of the game - and Dave has pointed out that he's followed his side all season, club membership shouldn't really come into it.

Exactly. Ignore Hunts. According to him anyone who doesn't go to every game home and away, buy the clubs 'branded underwear' and waste their savings on forged tickets, because any 'true fan would' is a 'fair weather supporter'.

[thfccambs]

Originally Posted by rio1981

That's a little narrow-minded in my opinion.

The point being that true supporters are being priced out of the game - and Dave has pointed out that he's followed his side all season, club membership shouldn't really come into it.

Sorry that was a bit,i must of missed the bit where Dave said he went to every game.

Just make me laugh when fans complain about not being able to get a ticket for a game like a wembley play off but they couldn't even be bothered to buy a membership pre season.

I do feel for people who spend hundreds/thousands on season ticket and can't get final ticket because of sponsors getting them. Been in that situation myself.

[thfccambs]

Originally Posted by overkill

Exactly. Ignore Hunts. According to him anyone who doesn't go to every game home and away, buy the clubs 'branded underwear' and waste their savings on forged tickets, because any 'true fan would' is a 'fair weather supporter'.

Not at all,just fed up with the one's who have never been in there life or don't even make an effort to go.Arm chair supporters always seem to have the most to say.

Never brought club underwear in my life.

[Steven]

Of course I wonder how hard it would be for UEFA/Fifa/FAs worldwide to ask sponsors how many tickets they want. When they see names, give them that amount and then throw the rest into the allocation for fans rather than just throw all these tickets at them when clearly they don't need so many and half suspiciously end up on the streets

Nah, that's stupid. That would be too logical! Of course the suits are laughing all the way to the bank I bet; "that's the dessert wine paid for then chaps!"

[overkill]

Originally Posted by hunts1uk

Not at all,just fed up with the one's who have never been in there life or don't even make an effort to go.Arm chair supporters always seem to have the most to say.

Never brought club underwear in my life.

Can't argue with that. In particular as I live on Merseyside, where in the last three-four years (I've lived here for twelve) 'non going' Red Noses have emerged like an ugly rash - and have plenty to say.

Although not all of the 'armchair fans' make no effort to go. Some just cannot. It's too bloody expensive.

Tbh Hunts, I was going to see the 'useless ones' at Blackburn last year, but the cost was just a joke. It's the best part of a ton now for me and the lad to see (what turned out to be ) a crap fixture, and running the risk of being thrown out for being 'non Blackburn' fans?! No thanks. I'll stick to Goodisan and the Reebok.

On the shreds, nor have I...................

[domtheone]

Originally Posted by hunts1uk

For me at spurs it cost me at least £50 for a match ticket,sometimes even more.If i don't buy it someone else will it's as simple as that.

I think that the time has perhaps come for football suppporters to make a stand.

If that involves boycotting games, demonstrations etc etc, then so be it.

Alas, and without wanting to offend football fans/supporters, the majority always seem to think with their hearts and not with their head, and so continually suffer in silence .

And even it some were to make a stand, as the above quote elluded to, they'll always be someone else to take your place.

[thfccambs]

Originally Posted by domtheone

I think that the time has perhaps come for football suppporters to make a stand.

If that involves boycotting games, demonstrations etc etc, then so be it.

Alas, and without wanting to offend football fans/supporters, the majority always seem to think with their hearts and not with their head, and so continually suffer in silence .

And even it some were to make a stand, as the above quote elluded to, they'll always be someone else to take your place.

With Tottenham having over 20000 on a waiting list for season tickets it just won't happen at my club.Think we'll 2nd highest priced club behind the gooners.Im sure Overkill will tell you what sort of waiting list they have also?

[overkill]

Originally Posted by hunts1uk

With Tottenham having over 20000 on a waiting list for season tickets it just won't happen at my club.Think we'll 2nd highest priced club behind the gooners.Im sure Overkill will tell you what sort of waiting list they have also?

Exactly. Utd are the same, as are Liverpool no doubt. No matter how naffed off the real fan gets, there's a thousand hangers-oners waiting to take his/her place.

[thfccambs]

Originally Posted by overkill

Exactly. Utd are the same, as are Liverpool no doubt. No matter how naffed off the real fan gets, there's a thousand hangers-oners waiting to take his/her place.

So what can we do?The smaller clubs can take a stand but the bigger one's that sell out week in week out will be held to ransom each season.

I do expect big changes once spurs move to a bigger stadium,as the working man will be out numbered by the man in a suit and the passion will start to be lost.

Thats when i'll think about stopping going to football.

[rio1981]

And do the clubs really care what bum is on a seat, as long as it's occupied?

Truth is they come out and say "we have the best fans in the world", but generally speaking the majority of people that run football clubs couldn't give a