EURO 2008 "No easy games"

Steve N · 02-09-2006, 9:15 AM

Here we go again.

Quote:

Andorra are ranked 132nd in the world and arrived in Manchester without two of their best players.

McClaren came out with all the usual guff yesterday. Trying desperately to lower the fans expectations. Prior to us playing Andorra, for crying out loud.

Quote:

This is actually a very tough group. There are no easy games. Upsets can happen.

A tough group !! Compared to who for gods sake ?

Just for once it would be refreshing for a manager to come out and say the truth.
"We should give this team a good stuffing. They are a bunch of part timers, missing their best two players. If we can't score a hatfull we will deserve the slating that we'll get"

domtheone · 02-09-2006, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve N

Just for once it would be refreshing for a manager to come out and say the truth.
"We should give this team a good stuffing. They are a bunch of part timers, missing their best two players. If we can't score a hatfull we will deserve the slating that we'll get"

Amen

Truth be told though. Can't remember the last time England gave a team a good stuffing.

We seem to get dragged down to inferior opponents levels all the time.

It'll probably end up 2-0 or something

overkill · 02-09-2006, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve N

Here we go again.

McClaren came out with all the usual guff yesterday. Trying desperately to lower the fans expectations. Prior to us playing Andorra, for crying out loud.

A tough group !! Compared to who for gods sake ?

Just for once it would be refreshing for a manager to come out and say the truth.
"We should give this team a good stuffing. They are a bunch of part timers, missing their best two players. If we can't score a hatfull we will deserve the slating that we'll get"

Spot on.

Because of the number of smaller footballing nations that are in the tournaments now, the days of really tough groups have long gone. Hence Beckenbaur is talking of having pre-qualifiers before the main groups are drawn. Currently you get one maybe half decent side like a 'Poland' or 'Hungary' all the rest should be battered for 4 or 5 - if England are as good as we'd all like to think.

I think national managers are so cautious because, as with everything in life these days, the media dictates how long they are in their job. If England do, err', 'underperform' then the manager knows he's in for a pasting. No-one in their right mind enjoys being called a turnip. Do they?

**Steven** · 02-09-2006, 11:32 AM

I know McClaren doesn't want to get the media carried away, but has he looked at the group?

In comparison the Welsh and Irish are drawn with the Germans and Czechs! The Scots have the Italians and French, and the Northern Irish getting Spain, Sweden and Denmark!

No easy games Steve, but there are easier ones!

DJT75 · 02-09-2006, 11:56 AM

It wouldn't be very respectful to go on European TV saying Andorra are a pile of pants & they'll get a good stuffing. I'm sure he's thinking that & telling his players that but come on...........

domtheone · 02-09-2006, 2:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LFC_SL

I know McClaren doesn't want to get the media carried away, but has he looked at the group?

In comparison the Welsh and Irish are drawn with the Germans and Czechs! The Scots have the Italians and French, and the Northern Irish getting Spain, Sweden and Denmark!

No easy games Steve, but there are easier ones!

Aye

If memory serves me correct

England have been very fortunate with their group draws for umpteen years now.

I'm sure if you compared their groups with what the likes of Wales and Rep of Ireland have had to endure for the last decade or so then i'm sure we'd all agree that England have been incredibly lucky

Had they have had some of the draws that the other home countries of had, then i'd be very surprised if USA 96 was all they'd have missed....

**Steven** · 02-09-2006, 2:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by domtheone

If memory serves me correct

England have been very fortunate with their group draws for umpteen years now

Blasted seeding sytem

Just ask Jose!

domtheone · 02-09-2006, 3:07 PM

LOL

**Steven** · 02-09-2006, 3:15 PM

Macca, Scotland are thrashing a team ranked below Andorra 5-0 and there's still another 45 min to go!

If England win by anything less than 5 goals over 90 minutes (I feel generous today), then this is a false dawn

RMCF · 02-09-2006, 9:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by overkill

Because of the number of smaller footballing nations that are in the tournaments now, the days of really tough groups have long gone. Hence Beckenbaur is talking of having pre-qualifiers before the main groups are drawn. Currently you get one maybe half decent side like a 'Poland' or 'Hungary' all the rest should be battered for 4 or 5 - if England are as good as we'd all like to think.

Totally agree overkill.

I have been thinking the same as Beckenbauer for years now. I mean why risk the 'top' players in matches against people who have no hope of winning.

You are risking taking players onto unnecessary flights, getting badly tackled by a postman from Andorra out to make a name for himself, plus adding to the number of games that these players have to play in a season. We always hearing moaning about people being tired and thats affecting the standard of the major games/tournaments, yet we drag the 'elite' to the Faroes to win 0-3 easily.

Take that game England played today - what is the point? It doesn't improve Andorra in any way. They are coming sightseeing, to keep the score down as low as possible and then rush around like star-struck teenagers at the final whistle to get Gerrards shirt for their kids!! Its making a mess of football.

I think that putting all the brock in a group or two and letting them play each other before they meet the big boys is the only way forward. They might not get the opportunity to play against the best, but sure when they do they don't attack. But they will play against players at their own level and may even score international goals and win the odd game. Their morale will improve and they might enjoy playing for their country. We filter out the small teams (rightly or wrongly) at club level with the CL and UEFA Cup seedings - so why not at international level?

CFC1 · 03-09-2006, 9:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RMCF

......We filter out the small teams (rightly or wrongly) at club level with the CL and UEFA Cup seedings - so why not at international level?

How come Liverpool always seem to fall through the net?

**Steven** · 03-09-2006, 9:25 AM

Agreed CFC1. Incredible winning the cup counts for something!

CFC1 · 03-09-2006, 9:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LFC_SL

Agreed CFC1. Incredible winning the cup counts for something!

Crikey!

I know I deserved that one!

overkill · 03-09-2006, 9:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RMCF

Totally agree overkill.

I have been thinking the same as Beckenbauer for years now. I mean why risk the 'top' players in matches against people who have no hope of winning.

You are risking taking players onto unnecessary flights, getting badly tackled by a postman from Andorra out to make a name for himself, plus adding to the number of games that these players have to play in a season. We always hearing moaning about people being tired and thats affecting the standard of the major games/tournaments, yet we drag the 'elite' to the Faroes to win 0-3 easily.

Take that game England played today - what is the point? It doesn't improve Andorra in any way. They are coming sightseeing, to keep the score down as low as possible and then rush around like star-struck teenagers at the final whistle to get Gerrards shirt for their kids!! Its making a mess of football.

I think that putting all the brock in a group or two and letting them play each other before they meet the big boys is the only way forward. They might not get the opportunity to play against the best, but sure when they do they don't attack. But they will play against players at their own level and may even score international goals and win the odd game. Their morale will improve and they might enjoy playing for their country. We filter out the small teams (rightly or wrongly) at club level with the CL and UEFA Cup seedings - so why not at international level?

I would agree myself, but the reason it's frowned upon is that it's hardly democratic, and unlike the smaller nations club sides, it's harder to ignore a nations complaints at being regarded as '2nd class'.

They (the smaller nations and elements of FIFA) would also argue that only by playing the larger nations sides will theirs improve. Denmark and Norway, once 'whipping boys', are used as evidence of this. However, I would counter that by saying that the likes Luxembourg etc, have never improved and are still, decade after decade, 'whipping boys'. This is perhaps inevitable, as they just don't have the populous to produce a pool of top quality players. No insult intended to that nation.

The problem is also compounded by who gets seeded into that first round of qualifying? The likes of Latvia, who, let's not forget, qualified for the last Euro finals? Further, and this is quite obviously a political thing, why is it then that in other continents apart from Europe and South America, there is pre-qualifying?

It's a sticky question, no?

overkill · 03-09-2006, 9:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CFC1

Crikey!

I know I deserved that one!

Not really since they were playing one of the 'dirty five'. Ooh, I wonder what the odds were on a side coming back from three down at half time.........

*puts tin hat on and waits for outraged retorts*

Adrenochrome · 03-09-2006, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by overkill

Not really since they were playing one of the 'dirty five'. Ooh, I wonder what the odds where on a side coming back from three down at half time.........

*puts tin hat on and waits for outraged retorts*

Made me chuckle

smelly · 03-09-2006, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by overkill

Not really since they were playing one of the 'dirty five'. Ooh, I wonder what the odds where on a side coming back from three down at half time.........

*puts tin hat on and waits for outraged retorts*

Ahhhh it is good to be back - I've missed this

mjn · 04-09-2006, 3:17 PM

We're in such a mickey mouse group for the qualifiers, we could put 11 players from League 2, and still win the group.

overkill · 04-09-2006, 3:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mjn

We're in such a mickey mouse group for the qualifiers, we could put 11 players from League 2, and still win the group.

That'll be the day. That's seen as 'politicaly incorrect' by the media and FA. Only 'superstars' from 'superpremlicious' clubs can play for England.

DJT75 · 04-09-2006, 3:40 PM

Although I agree mostly with what Mr Wenger has said there is another side to the story that Mr Hoddle mentioned yesterday. It does improve the quality of some of the lesser sides so where do you divide this up? Overkills correct in what he's saying about Luxembourg but I remember seeing Turkey get thrashed on an annaul basis when I was younger & then you see Lithuania taking a point from Italy away from home.

Something needs to change but nothing too drastic, we still need to have a few fairly one-sided encounters, they happen in the biggest tournament of them all too. Ukraine anyone?

mjn · 04-09-2006, 3:41 PM

I mean, just look at the teams in our group:

England
FYR Macedonia
Israel
Croatia
Russia
Estonia
Andorra

We should win all the games in our group, nobody is really a threat.

DJT75 · 04-09-2006, 3:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mjn

I mean, just look at the teams in our group:

England
FYR Macedonia
Israel
Croatia
Russia
Estonia
Andorra

We should win all the games in our group, nobody is really a threat.

In reality, Sven wouldn't have though. Macedonia got an away draw out of us, Croatia & Russia should be able to hold their own(ish).

We should spank them all. Split that group into 2 & have the lesser 4 play off for 2 places in the Group of 5 IMO. That takes 4 games away from England

overkill · 04-09-2006, 4:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJT75

In reality, Sven wouldn't have though. Macedonia got an away draw out of us, Croatia & Russia should be able to hold their own(ish).

We should spank them all. Split that group into 2 & have the lesser 4 play off for 2 places in the Group of 5 IMO. That takes 4 games away from England

This goes back to the seeding thing again. Russia are pretty poor now, as they, despite a huge population, have seen facilities and funding collapse faster than the Berlin wall. They no longer have access to top Ukranians or Georgians now either........ So, how do we seed them? On past performances (EC winners back when....) or as they are now - mediocre, and that's being generous. On the opposite though, as DT says, Turkey were down there with Norway and the Danes as whipping boys once, but now...

Croatia are the only real threat in that group. If England don't win all the rest then, ooh boy, McLarens honeymoon will soon be over. I also agree that Sven wouldn't have won all those games. His negative mentality would have seen a few points dropped where they shouldn't be.

RMCF · 06-09-2006, 3:28 PM

McLaren claims that Macedonia are a good side and can provide England problems tonight.

So why are they 9/1 to win AT HOME.

Lets be honest, they have no hope. At least they shouldn't have.

overkill · 06-09-2006, 3:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RMCF

McLaren claims that Macedonia are a good side and can provide England problems tonight.

So why are they 9/1 to win AT HOME.

Lets be honest, they have no hope. At least they shouldn't have.

If a country the size of Macedonia can field a team to give England problems, then the FA, McLaren and the team should all be asking themselves some serious questions!

DJT75 · 06-09-2006, 4:10 PM

Do you not think Russia will improve under Hiddink though? Ca't be a bad thing, until he replaces Ole Moany of West London next summer anyway.

RMCF · 06-09-2006, 4:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJT75

Do you not think Russia will improve under Hiddink though? Ca't be a bad thing, until he replaces Ole Moany of West London next summer anyway.

Definitely a top coach, and the man England should have went for if they wanted to win something in our lifetimes!!

However, I heard he was offered silly money for the Russia job - something like £8 million per year!! Must be dirty oil money.

RMCF · 06-09-2006, 8:25 PM

To put an end to this thread, I see Germany are leading San Marino 11-0 away from home with 80mins gone!!

Time that FIFA/UEFA put an end to this nonsense. A good pub side would give San Marino a game.

miceri · 06-09-2006, 8:39 PM

13-0

Punch Drunk...

neilios · 06-09-2006, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by overkill

If a country the size of Macedonia can field a team to give England problems, then the FA, McLaren and the team should all be asking themselves some serious questions!

Looks like they'll be having a conference then lol.